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      01-14-2022, 05:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
B58 is getting a new revision. S68 is basically a hybridized N63. All of them will be good enough to satisfy EU7 and remain in production for the next 8-10 years. Don't expect anything better than that - the future is electric.
I would not be surprised when they introduce the Miller or Atkinson cycle.

This would further reduce the consumption/emission and in combination with the variable valve timing and lift, they can allow their ICEs to run efficient over a much broader range of usage regimes. Another possibility would be the variabele compression ratio enabling cylinder head, further enhancing the efficiency over the entire range of regimes while further enhancing output at high regimes.

Nevertheless, when they would do this, it's a serious effort/investment to introduce this on a soon to be outdated technology.
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      01-14-2022, 07:12 PM   #24
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But i am happy we can shut the EV fanbois who love to say [b]ITS THE FUTURE![b] Hahaha
It's the most arrogant, anti-car enthusiast statement. Reminds me of the smug Prius episode of South Park.
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      01-14-2022, 07:25 PM   #25
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BMW needs fix internal combustion's flawed direct injection.
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      01-14-2022, 07:33 PM   #26
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Reads to me as BMW is admitting to hedging their bet on EVs. He says as much multiple times. Perfect example is the stated fear of alienating X5 customers as the reason to avoid only offering an EV in this product category.

Sales defines why a consumer brand exists, not legislation.
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      01-14-2022, 08:01 PM   #27
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Good read.

In summary:
- most people will go with the herd and get an EV. BTW, I'm not calling EV adopters a herd, just saying that a typical regular car owner who doesn't even know what car they are driving, will just drive what's on the market and that will be increasingly EV saturated.
- this leaves ICE options that will have to meet strict emission standards and consume less fuel still.
- demand for fossil fuels will decrease and as a result, we will never get even close to "peak oil" and petrol will be cheap

So, the more people around me switch to EV, the cheaper my modern ICE car will be to drive! Yay!

p.s. We all know the above logic will be destroyed by rich folks using fossil fuels to fly to orbit and back just for kicks.
If anything, I've read gas prices will increase as demand lessens with increased consumer preference for EVs. Economics of scale.
The laws of supply and demand say that as demand decreases, the the price shall also decrease all else held consistent. I am not sure how prices would increase as demand slows.
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      01-14-2022, 08:17 PM   #28
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The laws of supply and demand say that as demand decreases, the the price shall also decrease all else held consistent. I am not sure how prices would increase as demand slows.
Reduced petroleum production due to reduced demand, alongside fewer gas stations as a result.
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      01-14-2022, 08:21 PM   #29
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The laws of supply and demand say that as demand decreases, the the price shall also decrease all else held consistent. I am not sure how prices would increase as demand slows.
Reduced petroleum production due to reduced demand, alongside fewer gas stations as a result.
I guess that's a possibility. An unfortunate one. We'll see what the markets decide as time goes on. All I can hope for is that the government gets its head out of the industry. EVs are great but aren't without their own environmental concerns. Long live internal combustion!
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      01-14-2022, 08:29 PM   #30
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BMW is in the zone, they are on a roll. ICE will be here for quite some time.

Automakers are talking big about EVs. Their big financial investments lag behind their rhetoric.

Big battery factories coming in the US. When the ground breaks on those projects, it gets a bit more real.
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      01-14-2022, 09:41 PM   #31
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If anything, I've read gas prices will increase as demand lessens with increased consumer preference for EVs. Economics of scale.
Wait for the electricity prices….
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      01-14-2022, 09:46 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bquatt View Post
The laws of supply and demand say that as demand decreases, the the price shall also decrease all else held consistent. I am not sure how prices would increase as demand slows.
Reduced petroleum production due to reduced demand, alongside fewer gas stations as a result.
Yes, this can swing both ways if OPEC decides to sit on a glut of oil and squeeze every last dollar out of it by simply not producing. But all the sudden, that's a short-term play.
If they do that, EVs become cheaper and cheaper and owners will switch to lower cost fuel, so they will have to keep prices artificially high while sitting on ever-growing reserve of oil until the last ICE owner flips them the finger and jumps into his flying electric car (meaning: it will take a while).
OPEC will certainly find new markets in developing countries to dump the excess oil supply.
It's a fine balance and they know how to play the game.
But OPEC report in 2016 predicted 1% EV adoption by 2040.
Bloomberg report puts 2021 at 7.2%. So, oil producers will need to find other customers sooner than thought and I don't think they can extort a continuous stable high price because there is now a viable alternative.
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      01-15-2022, 12:05 AM   #33
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Dont be so sure, respectfully.
Wake up.

(Respectfully.)
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      01-15-2022, 12:16 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
I would not be surprised when they introduce the Miller or Atkinson cycle.

This would further reduce the consumption/emission and in combination with the variable valve timing and lift, they can allow their ICEs to run efficient over a much broader range of usage regimes. Another possibility would be the variabele compression ratio enabling cylinder head, further enhancing the efficiency over the entire range of regimes while further enhancing output at high regimes.

Nevertheless, when they would do this, it's a serious effort/investment to introduce this on a soon to be outdated technology.
This exactly is the strongest argument for the winding down of ICE investment: the R&D effort is immense, the resulting product is a complex device impossible to keep in good working state without a network of advanced repair facilities, and it's still nowhere close to the efficiency of the most basic electric motor.
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      01-15-2022, 01:53 AM   #35
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Great interview. Seems plausible the Technology is out there or coming soon that would enable a hybrid combustion engine to get 50, 60, 70 (or more) mpg. The HP and forward thrust desired by us M performance guys would be achieved with the additional e components.

Imagine this scenario. A major hurricane hits the southern US. Millions of people are told to evacuate North. Traffic jams and gridlock ensue. The heat is sweltering. Batteries are going dead. Kids and babies are on board. Air-conditioning, GPS, radios, windshield wipers, etc take power. How do you get electricity to all those cars that have run out of e power sitting on the road . Having a small super efficient combustion engine as part of the drive system makes sense. I think we have a long way to go before we totally say goodbye to ICE engines.
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      01-15-2022, 04:28 AM   #36
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Is there any possibility that Koenigsegg will start to license their Freevalve technology and it will make its way into these future extremely efficient engines? We've seen what they can do in the Gemera and I anxiously await the day I might be able to get something like that on one of BMWs V8s or I6 power plants.
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      01-15-2022, 05:33 AM   #37
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Was thinking my F90 was going to be a car to hold on to as the "Last of the V8s" ….but looks not to be the case
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      01-15-2022, 09:30 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
Great interview. Seems plausible the Technology is out there or coming soon that would enable a hybrid combustion engine to get 50, 60, 70 (or more) mpg. The HP and forward thrust desired by us M performance guys would be achieved with the additional e components.

Imagine this scenario. A major hurricane hits the southern US. Millions of people are told to evacuate North. Traffic jams and gridlock ensue. The heat is sweltering. Batteries are going dead. Kids and babies are on board. Air-conditioning, GPS, radios, windshield wipers, etc take power. How do you get electricity to all those cars that have run out of e power sitting on the road . Having a small super efficient combustion engine as part of the drive system makes sense. I think we have a long way to go before we totally say goodbye to ICE engines.

There is a world outside of the US, not sure if you know?

Last time things like that happen the Tesla driver's got more battery range over the air update! Try things like that with a gasoline engine.

The US needs to adopt and going with the time.
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      01-15-2022, 10:54 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
This exactly is the strongest argument for the winding down of ICE investment: the R&D effort is immense, the resulting product is a complex device impossible to keep in good working state without a network of advanced repair facilities, and it's still nowhere close to the efficiency of the most basic electric motor.
And also the most boring, uninspiring and soulless from an engineering standpoint.
Cars are more than means of commutes to some people, to them engines are the beating hearts of machines, a cold yet hot beauty. Premium manufacturers not only need to sell the performance but also their emotional values!
For that, I feel the hydrogen cars are the future especially in the premium market.
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      01-15-2022, 01:02 PM   #40
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30% of global new vehicle builds in 2030 is expected to be EV, for a total of 30m vehicles. Percentage EV varies by country, with the US being lower than average and European countries higher than average.

That means 70% of new vehicle build in 2030 will have an ICE - whether hybrid or full ICE.

ICE isn't going away anytime soon.
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      01-15-2022, 01:06 PM   #41
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I just hope that the manual transmission will have an application with that new generation of engines.
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      01-15-2022, 02:01 PM   #42
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I just hope that the manual transmission will have an application with that new generation of engines.
Likely not. Manufacturers need to meet strict emission and fuel economy targets. You can't control a manual transmission to do that.
So, unfortunately, I think it will be pretty much non-existent except for very niche cars as for every manual car, you'll need to sell so many "more efficient" cars to get your fleet average down to the compliance standards.
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      01-15-2022, 02:05 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
There is a world outside of the US, not sure if you know?

Last time things like that happen the Tesla driver's got more battery range over the air update! Try things like that with a gasoline engine.

The US needs to adopt and going with the time.
This is such an absurd post. I dont think you understand how life works SMFH
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      01-15-2022, 03:14 PM   #44
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This is such an absurd post. I dont think you understand how life works SMFH
https://insideevs.com/news/560870/tesla-model3/

Tell me how old you are?
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