[ourlee]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

Are you trying to turn this into an episode of roast me?
Lots of self righteous A-holes on here just waiting to pounce...
Sucks that that happened, in all seriousness.

Supreme common sense should never be labeled self righteousness (or woke)

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by GFK007

Same thing happened to me on Jan 6th in my S4, in CT. Never put on winters, and caught a patch of black ice. Totaled car!

After my X3M was stolen in July! Tough stretch…

Ouch! I hope you’re all right.

What are you driving now?

[RAUDERRIPPER]

Brother I cannot for the life of me tell you why I thought you said your actual baby was gone. Thankfully it’s just the car. Happy you’re alive!

At this point hope all goes well for you.

[823BMW]

If you are not doing track days, want to daily drive through 4 seasons, and don’t want to swap tires in the winter, Michelin has an answer: The Pilot Sport All Season 4. That is what I have on my Z4 M40i and this is how they compare to the Pilot Sport 4S:

https://youtu.be/421HkK4Nqss

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by frequentflyer123

Racetrack and real world driving are two different things. Temperatures can easily fluctuate in and out of ideal range for the winter/summer tire in a matter of hours for those of us that live in places with milder winters.

In fact, the weather in NYC is between 33 and 61F this Wednesday. Then it falls to between 30 and 40 on Thursday. Only for it to go back up to high 40s to high 50s on the weekend. This is the temperature fluctuation I have to deal with on a weekly basis.

Tell me, should I have winter tires on Wednesday AM, swap them out for summers on Wednesday afternoon, only to swap them back out for winters for Thursday? And then back to summers on the weekend? Surely if you know summers are compromised in the cold, you know winters are also compromised in 60 degree weather. I've driven winters in mid 60s weather and I can definitely tell you handling and braking is compromised. Why did I drive winters in mid 60s weather? Because of the temperature fluctuations people driving in the real world have to deal with in cities with mild winters.

What about A/S tires you might ask? They don't do anything well and I am not really going to carry 3 sets of tires.

I've driven both a F82 and G82 with and without winter tires during the typical NYC winter. My conclusion is winter tires in NYC is overkill. Unless you need to drive when it is snowing out (I don't) or go up to Catskills, you don't need winters for normal day to day driving in and out of the city.

So here is your logic. You will not get all seasons because they don’t do “anything well” you will gladly drive on summer tires because of best performance in safest and most favorable conditions and you don’t want to give up performance in those conditions but you will not drive on winter tires during times when driving takes most skill and experience so it is logical to compromise on that. Makes sense.

[DL335D]

Summer tires and under 40
degrees is a really bad combo. I don’t understand having enough cash to buy a 100k car and not spending 2k on a set of winter tires. On a positive note, the front end does look a lot better now! 😂

[gc.g80brg]

Originally Posted by BimmerNewbie66

Glad you’re ok! I’ve done something similar about 30 years ago in upstate New York on all season tires driving an old battleship Lincoln Town Car. Black ice is nothing to take lightly! Can’t understand those out there who want to make you out to be the a$$hole for driving YOUR car they way YOU want to.

According to your logic, weaving between cars at high speed, driving at 100 mph in a school zone or even driving with summer performance tires in winter is okay if the driver does it his way?

''HeY OfFiCeR, I cAn DrIvE HoW I WaNt OK ? ''

Not sure you wouldn't say the same thing if the driver had hit your child when he lost control of his car

[hooked]

Originally Posted by 823BMW

If you are not doing track days, want to daily drive through 4 seasons, and don’t want to swap tires in the winter, Michelin has an answer: The Pilot Sport All Season 4.

Interesting. I was not aware how close the all season was to the PS4S. I understand the BMW star version of the 4S is a touch better in the dry than the regular 4S creating more of a gap in the dry but not as good in the wet [and I assume snow]. This testing was all done on a M3 Comp!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COA630Juf_U

[JohnEnglish]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

So here is your logic. You will not get all seasons because they don’t do “anything well” you will gladly drive on summer tires because of best performance in safest and most favorable conditions and you don’t want to give up performance in those conditions but you will not drive on winter tires during times when driving takes most skill and experience so it is logical to compromise on that. Makes sense.

Living their life 1/4 mile at a time and driving 10/10 at all times.

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by hooked

Interesting. I was not aware how close the all season was to the PS4S. I understand the BMW star version of the 4S is a touch better in the dry than the regular 4S creating more of a gap in the dry but not as good in the wet [and I assume snow]. This testing was all done on a M3 Comp!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COA630Juf_U

As much as we all like to put the PS4S on a pedestal, diminishing returns applies here, as with any industry and marketable item. It is one of the best combo daily/street summer performance tire on the market, perhaps the best. However, it's not *so much* better than a lot of other newer developed tires on the market that you would be a fool for buying anything else. At the same price, maybe, but there are some really good all-season tires out there (DWS06+, AS4) that come close enough to a good performance summer that if you live in an area of cold/snow, you'd probably not notice any difference in your normal daily driving (with even the occasional pull) with one of these tires.

The problem in a vacuum is the P Zero* is pretty close in price to a PS4S*, so there's really no reason to get anything else. The next gen competition will be the SportContact 7 and the PS5S whenever those get released and released in our sizes.

[Needsdecaf]

Why are we still talking about this?

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Why are we still talking about this?

I think we stopped talking about OP specifically like 2 pages ago lol

[Blkbeemerboi]

That’s true but I hardly drive it as I do have my 911 and a Jeep but I like to have options as my wife drives the Jeep so if I need to go out in the snow I would like to in the BMW but not that much to warrant another set of wheels, at least not now

[Influence]

I didn’t read through all 15 pages of this thread so apologies if this has been posted already.

I read a bunch of comments asking “what good would snow tires be on black ice?”

Pretty obvious what they do (even on pure ice) if you watch this video. Yes it’s from 2009 but the results are similar with todays tires (though the newest all-seasons probably do a bit better today).

These tests are only at 10mph. Imagine the stopping distances at 20, 30, or 40mph.

https://youtu.be/GlYEMH10Z4s?si=4_pOwIGrjFFJcvmT

[MCM4]

Been a while since I posted here, as I firmly live in Blackwing Country. But I want to reply and say Praise God you are OK. The tires, speed, conditions, whatever - just Praise God you are OK

[hooked]

Originally Posted by Influence

I read a bunch of comments asking “what good would snow tires be on black ice?”

Pretty obvious what they do (even on pure ice) if you watch this video. Yes it’s from 2009 but the results are similar with todays tires (though the newest all-seasons probably do a bit better today).

https://youtu.be/GlYEMH10Z4s?si=4_pOwIGrjFFJcvmT

Thanks for sharing. If this doesn't make it clear that the "it was the ice and winter tires would NOT have made a difference" argument look as silly as it sounds, then nothing will.

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Why are we still talking about this?

In part because some people continue to believe that driving on summer tires in the winter is acceptable.

It is not. It is unacceptable.

Those who do so are dangerous to others, themselves, other property, and their cars, in descending order of importance.

They may get away with it. Then again, a drunk driver may get away with driving drunk—until he doesn’t and someone else dies.

Getting away with it does not make it right.

Anyone can be ignorant about summer tires. Anyone can make a mistake. Although less common today in the era of cellphones and modern weather forecasting, anyone can be caught by surprise in unexpected weather conditions, as I once was over twenty years ago (as I described in a previous post).

However, anyone who has read this thread, and still continues to drive on summer tires in winter conditions—which can be as little as a 40 degree F. day—refuses to acknowledge facts, and poses a threat to others on the road.

If such a person crashes, causes damage, injury or death, and a lawyer reads this topic, that person will have a tough time defending himself in court. By then it’s too late to repent.

[Hansn]

Originally Posted by Influence

I didn’t read through all 15 pages of this thread so apologies if this has been posted already.

I read a bunch of comments asking “what good would snow tires be on black ice?”

Pretty obvious what they do (even on pure ice) if you watch this video. Yes it’s from 2009 but the results are similar with todays tires (though the newest all-seasons probably do a bit better today).

These tests are only at 10mph. Imagine the stopping distances at 20, 30, or 40mph.

https://youtu.be/GlYEMH10Z4s?si=4_pOwIGrjFFJcvmT

Nice video. Its frustrating to try to explain this to people with no clue. But now people can watch this instead. 😄
Get that 2k extra set and save your summer set thread for 4 months of the year. Get proper nordic winter tires, not all seasons and experience what actual safe driving in winter is like. I can assure everyone that the preformance difference is bigger than getting Cup2R's over a china summertire in summer.

By the way.. at 30mph+ i assure you the stopping distance on summer tires are wherever the first obstacle is located. You can see on page 1 of this thread how that worked out.

[Custom Install]

Originally Posted by BMWbiker

In part because some people continue to believe that driving on summer tires in the winter is acceptable.

It is not. It is unacceptable.

Those who do so are dangerous to others, themselves, other property, and their cars, in descending order of importance.

They may get away with it. Then again, a drunk driver may get away with driving drunk—until he doesn’t and someone else dies.

Getting away with it does not make it right.

Anyone can be ignorant about summer tires. Anyone can make a mistake. Although less common today in the era of cellphones and modern weather forecasting, anyone can be caught by surprise in unexpected weather conditions, as I once was over twenty years ago (as I described in a previous post).

However, anyone who has read this thread, and still continues to drive on summer tires in winter conditions—which can be as little as a 40 degree F. day—refuses to acknowledge facts, and poses a threat to others on the road.

If such a person crashes, causes damage, injury or death, and a lawyer reads this topic, that person will have a tough time defending himself in court. By then it’s too late to repent.

You having a go at the majority of the UK population who drive in the winter is just ignorant.
It’s not a requirment or ‘a thing’ over here.
Once again, I have no issue with your general point saying winter tyres are sensible can you please understand that. But we get by just fine, because we drive the car to the conditions.
So what you’ve written is pretty one sided.
Not because we are ignorant, reckless, stupid or any of things you decide to label us.
We have spent our entire driving life with the same set of tyres all year round.
Maybe because we don’t have the class action lawsuit scenario…

[M4ROLLIN20]

Originally Posted by G82Anxious

So before these graphic images. I want everyone to know I am fairly ok. Mentally I am distraught that my baby is gone. Basically what happen is I am driving on my way to work and it's about 25-28 degrees outside and well...in the blink of an eye...black ice caused me to spin out and the rest is history...Please be careful out there.

I’m so sorry that’s horrific. It’s happened to me too I was just to ashamed to post the pics.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Custom Install

You having a go at the majority of the UK population who drive in the winter is just ignorant.
It’s not a requirment or ‘a thing’ over here.
Once again, I have no issue with your general point saying winter tyres are sensible can you please understand that. But we get by just fine, because we drive the car to the conditions.
So what you’ve written is pretty one sided.
Not because we are ignorant, reckless, stupid or any of things you decide to label us.
We have spent our entire driving life with the same set of tyres all year round.
Maybe because we don’t have the class action lawsuit scenario…

Are you Scottish by any chance ?🤔
Edit:
Just checked. Nevermind

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Blkbeemerboi

That’s true but I hardly drive it as I do have my 911 and a Jeep but I like to have options as my wife drives the Jeep so if I need to go out in the snow I would like to in the BMW but not that much to warrant another set of wheels, at least not now

100% agree here. However some seems to think that winter tire set is a waste of money let alone additional vehicle for that purpose alone. You know. I only drive in sport plus and all 🤣