Has everyone really examined their paint?

MarineRaider · 07-28-2021, 10:10 PM

Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

So I am involved in the first steps in possible legal action for another owner of a new M4 against BMW.

He has TZ2 blue. This has been truly a saga that makes one wonder how BMW really feels about its customers. This owner owns a Tuner shop here in OC, he bought the car shortly after mine ( I have BG, no problems) He had just had the arranged a color correction and then a full front XPEL wrap when the detailer, than his employees and finally myself looked carefully at the paint. The entire car had blemishes under the clear coat...including the CF roof. It was very pronounced on the hood and trunk lid.

I urged him to stop and immediately contact his dealer Beverly Hills BMW and BMW NA. He did both immediately.

What happened next infuriated me and its not my car. Everyone of those mentioned moved at the speed of a glacier with absolutely no communication or care, regardless of the 95k dollars spent. I have had faster response with Toyota on a Supra.

As his friend and lawyer I urged some well-written emails to start, document and photograph everything. He did. Eventually, after some communication from me they agreed to an inspection at Crevier BMW, his closest dealer but again, not his selling dealer.

Keep in mind the paint was actually getting worse. BMW finally sent a field rep to inspect the car with a field rep from the local collision center. So this happens, then he is told to pick up his car...then nothing. No call from BMW NA, nothing from the rep, nada. Days later he calls BMW NA and asks what happened, they said case closed, denied.

I then have him pick me up in the car ( my first extended ride in the buckets) and we go to the collision center. At first they are standoffish, then the owner and I click as he is a former Marine. He then tells them to pull the car in to the inspection room. He also looks up the VIN and shows us on the his screen that their was Port work done on the car, we cannot tell what but BH categorically stated the car had NO work done at the port.

The owner called in the rep who had inspected the car. She relays that the BMW rep was not in the mood to really find anything, as we walk around the car he finally sees what we are talking about..." oh, thats paint shrinkage" ...this is normal for " Production paint" from BMW, we are dumbfounded.

He says most cars are leased and it's just no longer a concern for BMW. His, like mine are purchased cars. He said he could correct about 90% of it with a color sand and buff but it would take off much of the margin for clear coat...so, the next owner is hosed.

But, then, it gets interesting. The field rep said she saw this...she guides us all to the rear of the car and points at the antenna area of the CF roof..a crack under the clear coat. The CF roof is compromised, the owner asks his rep what did he say to that? She said " the owner knows, no big deal" This was the very first time he seen this and yes it was a big deal.

There is more on that but for now we will move to the next communication with BMW, there is none. they have rebuffed EVERY attempt at dialogue. Even from BH BMW.

If this were my car I would already filing but my friend is more patient than I am and really is just stunned at how poorly he has been treated.

Now, I will be posting pictures of his paint ( there is a thread in the detail section) but as I said, he has a tuning shop, he is seeing more of our cars. Low and behold look what comes in for XPEL...this photo was taken with a high-end digital camera...paint shrinkage over entire care. Different color. I would urge all of you, look at your car ( hood and trunk obliquely under LED light) I hope these are rare occurrences but he is 2/2 on metallic paints.

jonahk · 07-28-2021, 10:43 PM

Yikes, this doesn't seem reasonable for a car of any value, let alone one at this price.

My detailer noticed a "zit" on the rear corner above my taillight, which is basically welding slag/splash that got painted over and completely missed during inspection. After talking to my sales rep and my service advisor, they are asking me to bring it on so their body guy can take a look at it (who happens to be a friend of mine), and they are expecting they'll just cut me a check for the repair since I already had PPF applied over it and I'll take care of it after the summer.

It's a lot of words to say that my dealer didn't even hesitate to take care of this for me, and it's nowhere near as extreme as the case you are describing. Interested to see how BMW corporate handles your case.

chicagofan00 · 07-28-2021, 10:44 PM

Perhaps I'm just not getting it, but are the white lines on the trunk the reflection from the lights?

If that is the case, the only other thing I'm noticing is orange peel in the paint, which has been a thing for a very long time on BMWs.

🤷🏻

I do agree though, how the situation is being handled overall sounds pretty shitty and I would expect a bit more from a company like BMW.

DS_BMW · 07-28-2021, 10:52 PM

Is there any better pictures of this problem? I don't see much from that picture posted.

MarineRaider · 07-28-2021, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagofan00

Perhaps I'm just not getting it, but are the white lines on the trunk the reflection from the lights?

If that is the case, the only other thing I'm noticing is orange peel in the paint, which has been a thing for a very long time on BMWs.

🤷🏻

I do agree though, how the situation is being handled overall sounds pretty shitty and I would expect a bit more from a company like BMW.

No, that is just light reflection. The best way to describe it is it looks like fallout trapped under the clear coat. In the sunlight the car looks fine, in less direct lighting you can see it over the entire car.

The real concern is it is getting worse by the day.

Tdubb88 · 07-28-2021, 10:55 PM

I just looked up "car paint shrinkage" on google and think I see what the OP is talking about

http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...anding_002.jpg

MarineRaider · 07-28-2021, 10:57 PM

here

chicagofan00 · 07-28-2021, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarineRaider

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagofan00

Perhaps I'm just not getting it, but are the white lines on the trunk the reflection from the lights?

If that is the case, the only other thing I'm noticing is orange peel in the paint, which has been a thing for a very long time on BMWs.

🤷🏻

I do agree though, how the situation is being handled overall sounds pretty shitty and I would expect a bit more from a company like BMW.

No, that is just light reflection. The best way to describe it is it looks like fallout trapped under the clear coat. In the sunlight the car looks fine, in less direct lighting you can see it over the entire car.

The real concern is it is getting worse by the day.

Ah, ok. Interesting that it would be getting worse with the passing days since it's under the clear coat.

Even if there was work done on it at the port I can't imagine this would be the result and all over the car nonetheless.

Hopefully BMW will make it right in the end and do a buy back.

Nothing worse than to have an issue like this to really ruin the whole new car experience.

KiloCo · 07-28-2021, 11:18 PM

MarineRaider: ( Its great your helping out a fellow "Devil Dog")I would expect more from an organization like BMW. However, I hope BMW assist with fixing that paint issue. I will look closer at my paint when my 2022 M4 Comp Brooklyn Grey arrives in Southern California

Where did he have the XPEL done? Orange County?

MarineRaider · 07-28-2021, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiloCo

MarineRaider: ( Its great your helping out a fellow "Devil Dog")I would expect more from an organization like BMW. However, I hope BMW assist with fixing that paint issue. I will look closer at my paint when my 2022 M4 Comp Brooklyn Grey arrives in Southern California

Where did he have the XPEL done? Orange County?

I have BG, it is perfect, yours should be as well. My guess this is the darker metallic paints.

I had my XPEL done at PFS here in OC, they are pricey. For a very good job look at WINN Motorsports.

m2michael23 · 07-29-2021, 12:16 AM

Thank you Jon for sharing my experience with the board.

Here is my "standard bmw production paint M4" aka $2000 Tanzanite Blue option.

:

akkando · 07-29-2021, 05:46 AM

Get various car websites to run a story on it and BMW will contact your friend saying it was all a misunderstanding.

merlin3008 · 07-29-2021, 09:15 AM

I had mentioned this on the other thread, but the fact that the issue is on both the carbon roof and the blue paint suggests significant damage in transit and repair at the VPC to me. The roof and painted panels are finished separately at the factory. If there is a paint defect that impacts both, it suggests a multi-panel paint repair done on the car rather than after being disassembled. You finding that there was actually repair work done at the port after transport adds credibility to this theory.

Der_Wolf · 07-29-2021, 09:20 AM

Will take a look at my BSM m4 tonight

chicagofan00 · 07-29-2021, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin3008

I had mentioned this on the other thread, but the fact that the issue is on both the carbon roof and the blue paint suggests significant damage in transit and repair at the VPC to me. The roof and painted panels are finished separately at the factory. If there is a paint defect that impacts both, it suggests a multi-panel paint repair done on the car rather than after being disassembled. You finding that there was actually repair work done at the port after transport adds credibility to this theory.

Isn't the dealership required to disclose shipping damage or damage at the port if repair costs are more than $1,000? Thought I read that somewhere on here at some point over the years.

AndroidRobot · 07-29-2021, 11:05 AM

It seems like they didn't let it cure correctly before continuing the process or they had a bad batch of paint. If you need a good contact at BMW NA, send me a DM I have a couple. MarineRaider

Der_Wolf · 07-29-2021, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

It seems like they didn't let it cure correctly before continuing the process or they had a bad batch of paint. If you need a good contact at BMW NA, send me a DM I have a couple. MarineRaider

BMW NA has been a huge disappointment for me also. They don't respond to emails, nor do they return calls. Slowly but surely, they are driving me away from the brand more than anything else. Sad to say

AndroidRobot · 07-29-2021, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der_Wolf

BMW NA has been a huge disappointment for me also. They don't respond to emails, nor do they return calls. Slowly but surely, they are driving me away from the brand more than anything else. Sad to say

I tend to agree with you there, especially after the giant mess with my X5. I almost pulled my M3 order numerous times for an RS6... I have some high level contacts there if you need though due to my experience. I sued them at one point but can't comment beyond that.

Der_Wolf · 07-29-2021, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

I tend to agree with you there, especially after the giant mess with my X5. I almost pulled my M3 order numerous times for an RS6... I have some high level contacts there if you need though due to my experience. I sued them at one point but can't comment beyond that.

Thanks man, I appreciate you. I will let you know if I need one of those contacts. Its a shame we even have to talk about this.

AndroidRobot · 07-29-2021, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der_Wolf

Thanks man, I appreciate you. I will let you know if I need one of those contacts. Its a shame we even have to talk about this.

Agreed, trust me, even if you have to get to that level they aren't helpful. I went through the full process and it was a joke. If you check my thread history, you can find my X5 one which is well documented. I recommend reading through my nightmare if you have the time. It was incredibly frustrating to say the least.

kjx · 07-29-2021, 11:53 AM

What resolution are you expecting BMW NA to provide for this? Replace the roof and repaint all the affected panels? Buy back? It's unclear what'd make the owner happy.

MarineRaider · 07-29-2021, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjx

What resolution are you expecting BMW NA to provide for this? Replace the roof and repaint all the affected panels? Buy back? It's unclear what'd make the owner happy.

I usually despise replying to a question with a question but what would you want?

Your paint of your brand new 90k car is heavily flawed, the CF roof is cracked...what would you want?

07-28-2021, 10:10 PM	#1
MarineRaider First Lieutenant 1192 Rep 387 Posts Drives: 2021 BMW M3 Join Date: May 2021 Location: Newport Beach iTrader: (0)	Has everyone really examined their paint? Featured on BIMMERPOST.com So I am involved in the first steps in possible legal action for another owner of a new M4 against BMW. He has TZ2 blue. This has been truly a saga that makes one wonder how BMW really feels about its customers. This owner owns a Tuner shop here in OC, he bought the car shortly after mine ( I have BG, no problems) He had just had the arranged a color correction and then a full front XPEL wrap when the detailer, than his employees and finally myself looked carefully at the paint. The entire car had blemishes under the clear coat...including the CF roof. It was very pronounced on the hood and trunk lid. I urged him to stop and immediately contact his dealer Beverly Hills BMW and BMW NA. He did both immediately. What happened next infuriated me and its not my car. Everyone of those mentioned moved at the speed of a glacier with absolutely no communication or care, regardless of the 95k dollars spent. I have had faster response with Toyota on a Supra. As his friend and lawyer I urged some well-written emails to start, document and photograph everything. He did. Eventually, after some communication from me they agreed to an inspection at Crevier BMW, his closest dealer but again, not his selling dealer. Keep in mind the paint was actually getting worse. BMW finally sent a field rep to inspect the car with a field rep from the local collision center. So this happens, then he is told to pick up his car...then nothing. No call from BMW NA, nothing from the rep, nada. Days later he calls BMW NA and asks what happened, they said case closed, denied. I then have him pick me up in the car ( my first extended ride in the buckets) and we go to the collision center. At first they are standoffish, then the owner and I click as he is a former Marine. He then tells them to pull the car in to the inspection room. He also looks up the VIN and shows us on the his screen that their was Port work done on the car, we cannot tell what but BH categorically stated the car had NO work done at the port. The owner called in the rep who had inspected the car. She relays that the BMW rep was not in the mood to really find anything, as we walk around the car he finally sees what we are talking about..." oh, thats paint shrinkage" ...this is normal for " Production paint" from BMW, we are dumbfounded. He says most cars are leased and it's just no longer a concern for BMW. His, like mine are purchased cars. He said he could correct about 90% of it with a color sand and buff but it would take off much of the margin for clear coat...so, the next owner is hosed. But, then, it gets interesting. The field rep said she saw this...she guides us all to the rear of the car and points at the antenna area of the CF roof..a crack under the clear coat. The CF roof is compromised, the owner asks his rep what did he say to that? She said " the owner knows, no big deal" This was the very first time he seen this and yes it was a big deal. There is more on that but for now we will move to the next communication with BMW, there is none. they have rebuffed EVERY attempt at dialogue. Even from BH BMW. If this were my car I would already filing but my friend is more patient than I am and really is just stunned at how poorly he has been treated. Now, I will be posting pictures of his paint ( there is a thread in the detail section) but as I said, he has a tuning shop, he is seeing more of our cars. Low and behold look what comes in for XPEL...this photo was taken with a high-end digital camera...paint shrinkage over entire care. Different color. I would urge all of you, look at your car ( hood and trunk obliquely under LED light) I hope these are rare occurrences but he is 2/2 on metallic paints. Attached Images
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07-28-2021, 10:43 PM	#2
jonahk Captain 705 Rep 630 Posts Drives: 2021 G80 M3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: MN iTrader: (1) Garage List 2021 BMW M3 [0.00] 2018 Porsche Macan [0.00] 2018 BMW M2 [0.00]	Yikes, this doesn't seem reasonable for a car of any value, let alone one at this price. My detailer noticed a "zit" on the rear corner above my taillight, which is basically welding slag/splash that got painted over and completely missed during inspection. After talking to my sales rep and my service advisor, they are asking me to bring it on so their body guy can take a look at it (who happens to be a friend of mine), and they are expecting they'll just cut me a check for the repair since I already had PPF applied over it and I'll take care of it after the summer. It's a lot of words to say that my dealer didn't even hesitate to take care of this for me, and it's nowhere near as extreme as the case you are describing. Interested to see how BMW corporate handles your case.
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07-28-2021, 10:44 PM	#3
chicagofan00 Major General 19146 Rep 8,032 Posts Drives: 2024 X5 M60i Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Phoenix iTrader: (1) Garage List 2024 BMW X5 M60i [10.00]	Perhaps I'm just not getting it, but are the white lines on the trunk the reflection from the lights? If that is the case, the only other thing I'm noticing is orange peel in the paint, which has been a thing for a very long time on BMWs. 🤷🏻 I do agree though, how the situation is being handled overall sounds pretty shitty and I would expect a bit more from a company like BMW. __________________ Instagram: @Phxrisingphotography Current - 2024 G05 X5 ///M60i in Java Green Past - 2005 E53 X5 3.0i in Titanium Silver; 2008 E92 335i in Montego Blue; 2019 G01 X3 M40i in Glacier Silver; 2022 G80 M3 Competition in Twilight Purple
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07-28-2021, 10:52 PM	#4
DS_BMW Lieutenant Colonel 1603 Rep 1,765 Posts Drives: 2022 M4 comp, 22 M240 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Lancaster PA iTrader: (1)	Is there any better pictures of this problem? I don't see much from that picture posted.
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07-28-2021, 10:55 PM	#6
Tdubb88 First Lieutenant 189 Rep 300 Posts Drives: Future M4C Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	I just looked up "car paint shrinkage" on google and think I see what the OP is talking about http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...anding_002.jpg
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07-28-2021, 10:57 PM	#7
MarineRaider First Lieutenant 1192 Rep 387 Posts Drives: 2021 BMW M3 Join Date: May 2021 Location: Newport Beach iTrader: (0)	here Attached Images
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07-28-2021, 11:18 PM	#9
KiloCo First Lieutenant 252 Rep 322 Posts Drives: Toyota// 22 G82 M4 Comp Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: California iTrader: (0)	MarineRaider: ( Its great your helping out a fellow "Devil Dog")I would expect more from an organization like BMW. However, I hope BMW assist with fixing that paint issue. I will look closer at my paint when my 2022 M4 Comp Brooklyn Grey arrives in Southern California Where did he have the XPEL done? Orange County?
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07-29-2021, 12:16 AM	#11
m2michael23 Captain 325 Rep 643 Posts Drives: G82 M4 Competition Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Lake Forest, CA iTrader: (1)	Thank you Jon for sharing my experience with the board. Here is my "standard bmw production paint M4" aka $2000 Tanzanite Blue option.: Attached Images __________________ 2021 M4 Competition 2020 M340i
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07-29-2021, 05:46 AM	#12
akkando Major General 5865 Rep 6,636 Posts Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (1)	Get various car websites to run a story on it and BMW will contact your friend saying it was all a misunderstanding.
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07-29-2021, 09:15 AM	#13
merlin3008 Captain 891 Rep 869 Posts Drives: 2022 M3 Comp xDrive Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (0)	I had mentioned this on the other thread, but the fact that the issue is on both the carbon roof and the blue paint suggests significant damage in transit and repair at the VPC to me. The roof and painted panels are finished separately at the factory. If there is a paint defect that impacts both, it suggests a multi-panel paint repair done on the car rather than after being disassembled. You finding that there was actually repair work done at the port after transport adds credibility to this theory. __________________ 2022 M3 xDrive, Brooklyn Grey over Tartufo 2021 Tesla Model Y 2019 MB AMG C43 (Sold) 2016 M235i xdrive, Alpine White, Terra Leather, Orbit Gray Wheels (Sold)
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07-29-2021, 09:20 AM	#14
Der_Wolf Lieutenant 888 Rep 574 Posts Drives: 2021 G82 Comp Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Midwest iTrader: (0)	Will take a look at my BSM m4 tonight __________________ \|2021 M4 Competition\| \|2018 M3 Competition\| \|1994 525i\| ///M
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07-29-2021, 11:05 AM	#16
AndroidRobot Major General 4332 Rep 6,121 Posts Drives: 2022 Porsche Boxster GTS Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List [0.00] 2022 Porsche Boxste ... [0.00]	It seems like they didn't let it cure correctly before continuing the process or they had a bad batch of paint. If you need a good contact at BMW NA, send me a DM I have a couple. MarineRaider __________________ 2022 Porsche Boxster GTS Gentian Blue 2023 Porsche Spyder Python Green (on order) 2022 BMW M3 Comp AWD IOMG/Kyalami Orange (SOLD) 2018 BMW M2 Mineral Grey(SOLD) 2019 BMW X5 50i Carbon Black/Tartufo (SOLD)
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07-29-2021, 11:53 AM	#21
kjx ///M ♥ Recycled Dinosaurs 3197 Rep 1,777 Posts Drives: BMW M4, BMW X5 45e Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2022 BMW M4 Competi ... [0.00] 2021 BMW X5 45e [0.00]	What resolution are you expecting BMW NA to provide for this? Replace the roof and repaint all the affected panels? Buy back? It's unclear what'd make the owner happy. __________________ 2022 BMW ///M4 Comp M xDrive (Enzian, Kyalami - insta \| youtube \| bp featured: Delivery + 963M + 2x Enzian!) \| 2021 BMW X5 45e (Carbon Black Metallic, Ivory White) BMW CCA LIFETIME MEMBER \| Past cars: 2016 BMW 435i Gran Coupe (Carbon Black Metallic, Oyster White - Euro-delivery)
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