[a1gio2]

Emanuel

[NB STIG]

In my opinion, I personally would go with an xDrive automatic over a manual every time. I tried a manual and after 5 minutes in stop-and-go traffic I was done with it. I think a manual transmission, for a once in a while, weekend car, older generation M, may be OK. But for an everyday car, with this kind of HP, nothing beats a modern automatic with xDrive. It's not only faster, safer and more comfortable, but is very relaxing to drive daily, all-year around, and a monster when you want to have fun in the canyons. Also, if you want to tune the car, you can get crazy HP without ending up wrapped around a tree. Finally, you can always have the choice to drive it rear wheel drive only if you are brave enough!

[kjx]

Originally Posted by MT6

Manual Transmission on winding roads is ultimate as the driver is in control of gear shifting.

Huh… did you think the driver can’t be in full control of gear shifting in an AT? In S1 to S3 modes or full manual mode, you can hold any gear for as long as you want. You can bounce on the rev limiter all day in first if you wanted.

The equivalent of the speed of clutch release is in the numbers - 1 = normal release, 2 = sporty release, 3 = fastest possible release.

You can change gears from the gear shift or the paddles. The only thing missing is the slotting and physical clutch action - both of which will never be as fast or consistent as a current-gen ZF8.

Having driven manuals for many years exclusively, I’m over them. Don’t miss them at all.

[Tall Tom Cruise]

My 6mt lease is coming to an end this summer..

Am I crazy for wanting to spec my next m3 as a comp RWD with CCB's instead of a comp x-drive (without CCBs)?

I live in a state with zero snow and warm weather all year round and therefore I will run cup 2's year round. Given that I am NOT a stop light racer and don't plan to launch the car... I really don't care for the x-drive.

My thoughts are RWD with a proper tire (295+ cup 2) will hook just fine. This was the case with my stage 2 f82 m4 and also with my current stage 2 6mt g80 m3. I've never had any traction issues and my current setup is running 600rwhp.

Am I missing something here? If I was a stop light racer and/or lived in an area with seasonal climate and a snowy winter, then I'd get the x-drive. I feel like actually ZERO people are ordering 2024's or 2025's in the RWD Comp spec.

[natmad]

^^^

Not crazy for ordering M3 Competition RWD.

Get what you want!

I wanted full time RWD for my ‘24 M3 Competition. I never wished for AWD in my M2 Competition over 4 years and 42,000 miles.

As a bonus, it weighs slightly less up front, costs a little less, and has a bit less drivetrain complexity and maintenance.

The big change for me is going from decades of performance cars with manual transmissions, including the M2C, to the ZF Automatic!

After 900 miles, I’m loving it! I drive it 95% of the time in Sequential Mode, only using Drive Mode while cruising at interstate speeds.

After driving manual transmissions for so long, I find myself using the shifter far more than the paddles!

[sdengineer]

As someone who learned to drive in MT and drove MT for my first 21 years of driving before going AT, I personally have never looked back.

Here is a thought. The main appeal of the MT is you get to control shifting. Well, you can do that with the paddle shifters too. I actually find shifting with both hands on the wheel much better in the twisties. Why did race cars switch to paddle shifters? For better control of steering.

So for me, an AT with manual shifting mode is the best of everything because you can be lazy about things on the highway and very precise and in control when having fun. The loss of being able to control the clutch directly is not worth it IMO.

[Indo Rider]

Originally Posted by RACE M3

Manual owner here. The X drive is the better car in every way.

The manual transmission in a M3 is on the endangered list. The way I see it is take advantage while the choice is there. As a manual car it holds up well. I’m usually shopping for the next 6-12 months. 20k miles in a year and I’d order another manual with slightly different options.

Well, clearly not better in every way, not the way that makes you want to buy it... Hell, you're even saying you'll buy 2 MTs before you'd buy the auto.

[moonluv810]

Hard to teach old dogs new tricks…
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it! 😀

[MT6]

Ultimate short

https://youtube.com/shorts/L7lWX7tj5...2Dmmlffy3ZF68J

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by sdengineer

As someone who learned to drive in MT and drove MT for my first 21 years of driving before going AT, I personally have never looked back.

Here is a thought. The main appeal of the MT is you get to control shifting. Well, you can do that with the paddle shifters too. I actually find shifting with both hands on the wheel much better in the twisties. Why did race cars switch to paddle shifters? For better control of steering.

So for me, an AT with manual shifting mode is the best of everything because you can be lazy about things on the highway and very precise and in control when having fun. The loss of being able to control the clutch directly is not worth it IMO.

I like the thrill I get when accomplishing a nice manual clutch driven up or down shift! I couldn't care less about an auto being quicker to do so.

[F30Andy]

As engaging as the manual is, you will never be able to change gear as quickly as the auto can.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by F30Andy

As engaging as the manual is, you will never be able to change gear as quickly as the auto can.

Of course...the vast majority of manual drivers don't care...we just find the auto boring.

[nalnass]

Originally Posted by kjx

Huh… did you think the driver can’t be in full control of gear shifting in an AT? In S1 to S3 modes or full manual mode, you can hold any gear for as long as you want. You can bounce on the rev limiter all day in first if you wanted.

The equivalent of the speed of clutch release is in the numbers - 1 = normal release, 2 = sporty release, 3 = fastest possible release.

You can change gears from the gear shift or the paddles. The only thing missing is the slotting and physical clutch action - both of which will never be as fast or consistent as a current-gen ZF8.

Having driven manuals for many years exclusively, I’m over them. Don’t miss them at all.

Originally Posted by F30Andy

As engaging as the manual is, you will never be able to change gear as quickly as the auto can.

Sorry, I didnt know that was something to be worried about, because we are not professional drivers who’s career depends on lap times

[kjx]

Originally Posted by nalnass

Sorry, I didnt know that was something to be worried about, because we are not professional drivers who’s career depends on lap times

I don’t know about you, but when I buy a high-performance car, I want every bit of performance technically possible (without voiding the warranty). That’s a huge part of what a high-performance car is.

That is the right transmission, M xDrive and the right tires for the conditions.

The difference in real-world performance between two G8X cars varying on just those 3 things can be so vast that one of them can appear to be a substandard example to an uneducated observer.

For example, going uphill on a wet road in cold weather. M xDrive with winter tires will rip up that hill clawing with all four tires even briefly losing traction. An MT even with winter tires will struggle to put its power down, and get hugely gapped.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by kjx

For example, going uphill on a wet road in cold weather. M xDrive with winter tires will rip up that hill clawing with all four tires even briefly losing traction. An MT even with winter tires will struggle to put its power down, and get hugely gapped.

As if we buy these cars to race uphill, in the winter, on winter tires, worried about being "gapped".

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by kjx

I don’t know about you, but when I buy a high-performance car, I want every bit of performance technically possible (without voiding the warranty). That’s a huge part of what a high-performance car is.

That is the right transmission, M xDrive and the right tires for the conditions.

The difference in real-world performance between two G8X cars varying on just those 3 things can be so vast that one of them can appear to be a substandard example to an uneducated observer.

For example, going uphill on a wet road in cold weather. M xDrive with winter tires will rip up that hill clawing with all four tires even briefly losing traction. An MT even with winter tires will struggle to put its power down, and get hugely gapped.

And this is why the GT3 should have a ZF Automatic and be AWD (correction GT3)

[FC4]

Originally Posted by kjx

I don’t know about you, but when I buy a high-performance car, I want every bit of performance technically possible (without voiding the warranty). That’s a huge part of what a high-performance car is.

That is the right transmission, M xDrive and the right tires for the conditions.

The difference in real-world performance between two G8X cars varying on just those 3 things can be so vast that one of them can appear to be a substandard example to an uneducated observer.

For example, going uphill on a wet road in cold weather. M xDrive with winter tires will rip up that hill clawing with all four tires even briefly losing traction. An MT even with winter tires will struggle to put its power down, and get hugely gapped.

LOL

[kjx]

Originally Posted by 2011ninja

And this is why the GT3 RS should have a ZF Automatic and be AWD

Sorry what am I missing? The GT3 RS is only available as an automatic, and a superior one at that - the PDK.

I’d only pick an AWD 911 for an all-season, all-weather daily driver. And the GT3 RS if it was exclusively for dry, warmer weather. I don’t want a car with a bunch of asterisks on the conditions under which it is the most tamable, safely, through ultra-fast corners and straights, and other unpredictable drivers on the road.

I honestly won’t buy a Porsche that is not AWD. My friends with RWD 911s struggle with fast corners as daily drivers (nearly spinning out if pushed hard), and the cars get babied in winter and wet weather. I easily do 6x the miles they put on every year because of this.

And that’s what I love about M xDrive - in conditions where every other car and driver backs off, I can confidently do more, and boy, is it dramatically so much more. The only person I see doing the same things as me is my neighbor with his 911 Turbo. I’ve heard Porsche’s AWD execution isn’t as good as BMW M’s though - I don’t know to be honest.

[kjx]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

As if we buy these cars to race uphill, in the winter, on winter tires, worried about being "gapped".

This is a daily real-world scenario for me. There is a uphill 2 lane road about 500 ft long from a roundabout that merges into a single lane and whoever you pass in that stretch is all you’ll pass for many more miles. It’s also a single lane before the roundabout.

Sometimes you’re stuck behind 4-8 people stuck behind one really slow driver coming upon this roundabout. Often it’s only my car that breaks through and leaves this sorry caravan far behind in the rear-view mirror.

Should share a dashcam video sometime.

[RACE M3]

Originally Posted by Indo Rider

Well, clearly not better in every way, not the way that makes you want to buy it... Hell, you're even saying you'll buy 2 MTs before you'd buy the auto.

That's the beauty! The better car isn't always the one you should buy!

[SwankPeRFection]

I think the people that are happy with RWD honestly probably don’t drive super aggressively and really push it on a regular basis. And what I mean about that isn’t speeding or taking the occasional off/on-ramp in a spirited manner. I’m talking sitting at an intersection to turn right and having people coming your way from the left that you need to wait on. With AWD, dry or wet, you don’t have to wait… I don’t. I know my car well enough to know I can pull out almost floored and be gone before they have time to even bother thinking of needing to change lanes… because they don’t, I’m out and still going. With AWD, put simply, I don’t have to ask for permission or wait to go or be let in somewhere traffic wise. I take it, but hey, I also drive like a dickhead when those scenarios happen. There’s no way a RWD car would allow the same acceleration freedom, no matter how good the traction control is. I went AWD a long time ago and the past two cars have been AWD, my M will be as well. I also plan on adding more power beyond the factory tune, otherwise I wouldn’t be buying the car if I couldn’t do that. That in itself will tax the drivetrain even more to be able to put it down in any and all conditions. I always buy vehicles based on their engine and ECU tuneability primarily, drivetrain second and the car design and everything else is last on my list. When all that lines up and fits right, that’s the right car for me and I fall in love with it before I even get it. I tend to keep my cars a very long time, so it has to put a smile on my face everyday and be there when I need the capabilities. I’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

I think the people that are happy with RWD honestly probably don’t drive super aggressively and really push it on a regular basis.

Every sports car or performance car I have ever owned has been RWD, by choice. And I've driven almost all the most challenging roads east of the Mississippi, and some west of the Mississippi, and I track my cars. I've been in caravans with some aggressive drivers on many highly-technical roads and tracks.

And on roads that I know well that I've driven multiple times, traction control is often off.

And I love it, and I've never lusted for an AWD vehicle, EVER.

And no, I don't need to push hard when it's raining (unless I'm on a track)....and even if I had AWD, I would never feel compelled or have the desire to drive stupidly fast in slippery conditions. Though I've driven quite fast in the rain as well when the roads are fairly empty, with nary a problem. Traction control on and good tires and my RWD sports cars (including my G82) have never had a problem moving along at a faster clip when the conditions permit.

Having said that, if I were buying a G82 today, I'd likely buy an AWD model, only because of the option to switch to RWD. Best of both worlds, a great technology by BMW. But, talking with a BMW master tech, he said if you're going to keep a G8X beyond 150,000 miles, a long-term ownership, he said he'd choose a RWD model because a transmission replacement for an AWD model is at least double the price. So maybe I made the right decision since my car is at 70,000 miles and counting, as I hope to drive across the country this year.

And for a pure sports car, I only want RWD, no desire for AWD. And I don't want an AWD supercar, I don't want that level of traction. It's advanced technology that I don't want. I want my feet to control the slip and power of the car, especially on the track. I don't want the system shifting power back and forth. And BMW has one of the best AWD systems available, it's seamless. And in an all-purpose road car, yes, it makes sense for most, especially since most car enthusiasts aren't the best drivers (no track time, no autocross time, no understanding the limits of their cars). But in a sports car, no AWD for me, unless I can readily turn it off, and if I don't plan on keeping the car.

There’s no way a RWD car would allow the same acceleration freedom, no matter how good the traction control is.

Don't worry, I have more than enough "acceleration freedom". I've driven with 911 Turbos, tuned Subarus, M5s, GTRs, etc., and sure, they're absurdly fast in bends and such...but that doesn't make me want one. I'd rather be in my RWD mastering my car, not in the AWD car when no such mastery is needed.

And I have driven all of my sports cars and sporty cars straight through the winter, on summer tires...so I certainly enjoy my "acceleration freedom" in all 4 seasons.

Keep in mind, almost all sports cars and fast cars were RWD until recently. All of the older AMG's, M cars, Ferraris, Lambos, Porches, McLarens, Corvettes, Supras and more...all RWD. And do you think the owner of those cars didn't have "acceleration freedom"? Do you really think those owners were having less fun than AWD owners, simply because AWD drivers can mindlessly floor their high-hp cars without thinking about it, in all conditions? Have we forgotten that a huge part of the fun of driving is controlling the car?

For many enthusiasts, all they will need is a high-hp electric car, because if one is simply chasing the lowest quarter-mile times and mind-boggling, stomach-quenching acceleration, electric and hybrid cars will be perfect, because nothing will be faster.

For others, we'll need more.

I'm not saving for an AWD 911 Turbo, I'm saving for a RWD GT3. Need I say more?