[kjx]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Zero zero zero to do with safety.

If the car protects you from landing in the ditch when you're extracting the most out of it, it is both a performance feature and a safety feature.

My last 435i GC (RWD) with all traction nannies on once tried to put me into the wall on curving highway on ramp due to oversteer from losing traction in the rear. Counter-steer and reverse counter steer after that saved it. But it was a seat of the pants thing. And that was just a 300 HP car with wide track handling package wheels/tires at the rear.

That I can slide the M4 with all nannies on and then have the front end kick in if the car detects it's not doing what I'm indicating with my steering and throttle inputs means I'm more protected.

Safety and performance envelopes are not unrelated things.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by kjx

If the car protects you from landing in the ditch when you're extracting the most out of it, it is both a performance feature and a safety feature.

My last 435i GC (RWD) with all traction nannies on once tried to put me into the wall on curving highway on ramp due to oversteer from losing traction in the rear. Counter-steer and reverse counter steer after that saved it. But it was a seat of the pants thing. And that was just a 300 HP car with wide track handling package wheels/tires at the rear.

That I can slide the M4 with all nannies on and then have the front end kick in if the car detects it's not doing what I'm indicating with my steering and throttle inputs means I'm more protected.

Safety and performance envelopes are not unrelated things.

Ok

[Psychos1s]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

From a dig, AWD will be faster, without a doubt. However, from a roll, good chances are the RWD will be faster due to the added weight and drivetrain loss/inertia of the AWD. Around a dry track, RWD will likely also have an edge due that lower weight and better weight distribution.

This is really going to depend on the track. The xDrive version is 2 seconds faster on the Nurburgring and EVO did a test rwd/awd on the same track/same conditions and once again the xDrive was faster.

On an oval track (Nascar style) or a long straight away, the RWD would be faster eventually but in my opinion AWD is the way to go. Especially since you can turn it off for playing around.

Sources:
Nurburgring times: 7:28:57 vs 7:30:79 https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
EVO @ 6:50min mark (very end)

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by danf72

This is really interesting. The AWD will clearly have more grip, especially when it's wet. But with heavy throttle in the wet with DSC and traction control on a RWD, you will just be slower. You still won't spin or get spit out into a wall because the RWD car's traction control/DSC will slow the rear to bring the tail back in. Correct? What I'm trying to confirm is that AWD is really a performance feature at the edge of grip rather than a safety feature. (Snow and ice is a different story.)

Yes this is a performance feature. It's 2 seconds faster on the ring. It's also faster in Every track it was tested on. Awd is the highest performance version. This gap also gets bigger if you tune it. There should only be manual and awd versions.

[vj123]

Originally Posted by Allerum

There should only be manual and awd versions.

We should be happy that BMW is offering competition rwd trim. As a customer, i want options and dont like OEMs forcing things on me. There is still a good chunk of people who prefer the competition version and BMW would have cancelled it a while ago if isnt making business sense.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by vj123

We should be happy that BMW is offering competition rwd trim. As a customer, i want options and dont like OEMs forcing things on me. There is still a good chunk of people who prefer the competition version and BMW would have cancelled it a while ago if isnt making business sense.

They cancelled it for 2023 in Canada, I guess almost everyone wanted the AWD for our winters. And for the rest the 6MT is still available.

[vj123]

Originally Posted by PLF69

They cancelled it for 2023 in Canada, I guess almost everyone wanted the AWD for our winters. And for the rest the 6MT is still available.

It makes sense for Canadian market.

UK wasnt fortunate enough to get manual as an option since this platform was launched.

[M4CompConv/X7]

AWD Because I love my convertible.

[jmg]

I only got the AWD because I wanted to own the first M4 with AWD and wanted to try something new after two RWD M3's.

Upsides:
Traction and grip
Acceleration
Handling

Downsides:
Weight
Limited tire options for <1% difference rolling diameters
All or none tire replacement requirements

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by jmg

Downsides:
All or none tire replacement requirements

Check out utires.com if you need less than a full set. They have a large inventory/network of used tires which means you can select exactly the tread depth you need. I've bought 3 or 4 tires from them and they've always been in great shape.

If you want to buy new, Tire Rack can shave down tread to your specification.

[Purekoryo]

I live in Dallas and rwd is more than enough for me. Surprisingly it puts the power down extremely well due to the world class LSD and chassis design. If I decided to do a light tune on the car, then I'd upgrade to 305's in the rear.

I also wanted light spec so I have carbon buckets and carbon ceramics. On top of that I recently installed a full titanium exhaust and now this car feels very very light. I'd say it currently sits in the mid 3600's.

Honestly I wish the upcoming M3CS would be rwd but with wider rear tires and M4CSL should've come with that as well.

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by jmg

I only got the AWD because I wanted to own the first M4 with AWD and wanted to try something new after two RWD M3's.

Upsides:
Traction and grip
Acceleration
Handling

Downsides:
Weight
Limited tire options for <1% difference rolling diameters
All or none tire replacement requirements

Handling is better? Because of the grip I guess.

Would you add gas mileage to the downsides? Also possibly maintenance and repairs.

The thing for me is that I will never be able to extract all the performance from a RWD. Not even close, even on a track. The fact that the AWD is faster by a second or two in the hands of pros doesn't really mean much. So it comes down to driving enjoyment and not sliding out into a ditch. It is of course entirely possible that I might push it a bit too fast on an on-ramp where the DSC won't be enough to save me. The AWD would be worth it for that. I did however drive the RWD on the track at M-school and it felt really predictable to me.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by danf72

Handling is better? Because of the grip I guess.

Would you add gas mileage to the downsides? Also possibly maintenance and repairs.

The thing for me is that I will never be able to extract all the performance from a RWD. Not even close, even on a track. The fact that the AWD is faster by a second or two in the hands of pros doesn't really mean much. So it comes down to driving enjoyment and not sliding out into a ditch. It is of course entirely possible that I might push it a bit too fast on an on-ramp where the DSC won't be enough to save me. The AWD would be worth it for that. I did however drive the RWD on the track at M-school and it felt really predictable to me.

It's an M car so mileage isn't even a consideration!

Maintenance I guess eventually yea, could be potentially more expensive.

I've driven the RWD version at M School and honestly it handled great. My G82 feels like I can pull out of the corners a bit faster. I'm no pro, so I don't know if I'll ever extract it's full potential, but I do think it's a bit easier to do so in the AWD version.

If I was to get another M car after this, I'd probably go back to the RWD, but glad I got to scratch that AWD itch.

[Multimodal]

You can get closer to a car's full potential than you think. My lap times are only about 15% slower than the best recorded for my car, and I wouldn't say I'm a particularly skilled driver.

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by danf72

Handling is better? Because of the grip I guess.

Would you add gas mileage to the downsides? Also possibly maintenance and repairs.

The thing for me is that I will never be able to extract all the performance from a RWD. Not even close, even on a track. The fact that the AWD is faster by a second or two in the hands of pros doesn't really mean much. So it comes down to driving enjoyment and not sliding out into a ditch. It is of course entirely possible that I might push it a bit too fast on an on-ramp where the DSC won't be enough to save me. The AWD would be worth it for that. I did however drive the RWD on the track at M-school and it felt really predictable to me.

So the AWD car runs in RWD until slip is detected so mpg would be same or better vs manual since it has 2 more gears. The AWD system is only around 100 lbs more. That's like saying you notice your gas mileage decrease with a passenger. But if its raining or damp then no contest its safer and faster.

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by danf72

Handling is better? Because of the grip I guess.

Would you add gas mileage to the downsides? Also possibly maintenance and repairs.

The thing for me is that I will never be able to extract all the performance from a RWD. Not even close, even on a track. The fact that the AWD is faster by a second or two in the hands of pros doesn't really mean much. So it comes down to driving enjoyment and not sliding out into a ditch. It is of course entirely possible that I might push it a bit too fast on an on-ramp where the DSC won't be enough to save me. The AWD would be worth it for that. I did however drive the RWD on the track at M-school and it felt really predictable to me.

Some electronic aids are really good. I've test my limits a little and this car has phenomenal grip at my skill level. G80 6MT

With my past race bikes, in some circumstances I was faster with traction control OFF.

If I accelerated at wot out of 1st gear bike would start to wheelie right about 60 MPH and start to cut fuel.

Traction off; I could float the front wheel and keep accelerating.

Tested this theory against my buddy's S1000rr. I'm a better rider, but he could edge me out with TC on. When TC was off, I could put a bike or two between us accelerating.

I plan to do a track day with the car so I know more about it's capabilities and to become a better driver.

Me RWD cause it's better 🤓

[GixY2K]

AWD
Official answer: 4 seasons
Off the record: 0-60

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by jmg

If I was to get another M car after this, I'd probably go back to the RWD, but glad I got to scratch that AWD itch.

But.... I thought you can hardly tell that the AWD is not a RWD until you lose grip. So why go back to RWD?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by danf72

But.... I thought you can hardly tell that the AWD is not a RWD until you lose grip. So why go back to RWD?

Simplicity of tire selections, maintenance etc.

[jummo]

Originally Posted by Allerum

There should only be manual awd versions.

I believe this is where you say " Fixed it for you. "

[gs1403]

Originally Posted by Allerum

Yes this is a performance feature. It's 2 seconds faster on the ring. It's also faster in Every track it was tested on. Awd is the highest performance version. This gap also gets bigger if you tune it. There should only be manual and awd versions.

Yeah because everybody makes car-buying decisions based on 1-2 second differences in lap times that are unachievable to less than 99.99% of G8X owners.

M3/4s have been RWD only for 30+ years and the first year they come out with an AWD version, people act like it's the only way to have the car. Nobody's arguing the AWD doesn't outperform the RWD. We get it. It's faster. It's more practical. Whatever. I just don't care enough about having the AWD to pay $4,100 extra to have 100lbs more weight at the front axles. And I'm glad BMW gave the privilege of making that choice.

[kjx]

Originally Posted by gs1403

Yeah because everybody makes car-buying decisions based on 1-2 second differences in lap times that are unachievable to less than 99.99% of G8X owners.

M3/4s have been RWD only for 30+ years and the first year they come out with an AWD version, people act like it's the only way to have the car. Nobody's arguing the AWD doesn't outperform the RWD. We get it. It's faster. It's more practical. Whatever. I just don't care enough about having the AWD to pay $4,100 extra to have 100lbs more weight at the front axles. And I'm glad BMW gave the privilege of making that choice.

The differences in performance and safety are even more pronounced when you are not a professional race car driver. Not less. And on the road. At less than 60 mph.

Just the added safety envelope of a average person being less likely to total a 500+ HP car due to oversteer is good enough justification for it. The fact that you don't give up any of the driving feel vs RWD until you almost screw up is the cherry on top.

Sure, M3/4s have been RWD for decades but the cars have not produced this much power for that duration of time. The F8X generation was already too late to the game - I know more people who totaled their F8X due to oversteer with full traction control on at less than 60 mph than people who still own their F8X.

Of course, people can buy the RWD in auto form. Because some people make emotional decisions even when all the logic in the world points the other way. Ever since AWD came out, none of the customer order or dealer order cars I've seen at the local dealerships have been RWD (other than the occasional RWD manual). It shouldn't even be a debate at this point - if someone isn't sure of what to get the answer is always AWD.

Nobody can feel the weight over the front axles (here or any of the big YouTube reviewers / Car mags) and $4100 is the best bang for the buck "option' in this generation. Arguing against that at this point is at par with arguing that the earth is actually flat. But flat earthers are free to believe whatever they want, and so are the handful of the RWD-only devotees. The only real shame is if someone didn't have a firm understanding of AWD in G8Xs and opted out of it due to ignorance. I say this as a former RWD BMW owner who once nearly wrecked his own car due to unintended oversteer at less than 60 mph with traction on. And that was a whole 200 HP less than the G8X.