[BackOnBlack]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

First time I had the chance to take the car on a proper track at speed. Also, this was the first time I tried this "trackcross" format. Came out with mixed feelings.

The format is a mix of autocross and time attack, except the runs are not through the entire track, only a portion of it, standing start. The nice part of it is that they are timed runs, so we get to compete without turning continuous laps. The advantage is a stock car with street brake pads, fluid, tires, etc. is perfectly fine. And we get to go as fast as we dare going, unlike autox where the speeds generally are below 60 mph, and there aren't any cones to navigate through.

First time with the car on track was a learning adventure. I really had to manage the power, which is something nice to have. The weather was typical Mid-Atlantic in January. We started off with a damp track at 38 degF. The track in the morning was very unpredictable, even with street tires traction on various parts of the track was very difficult to judge, let alone setting the tire pressures. The PS4S tires never had enough temp and my tire pressures barely reached 34 psi, I started off at 30 psi all around.

After my first timed run, waiting for the 2nd, a car went off course hitting the tire wall, and bringing a lot of mud onto the track surface, we had to wait an extended time on grid for it to be cleared. In the meantime, the track showed signs on some parts of drying. Eventually, I started my second run, and through one of the critical turns, I saw the racing line was dry, squeezed the throttle after the apex, and had a scary tank slapper at about 60-65 mph, which luckily I was able to catch and stay on track. MDM was on, but frankly, I think it hindered the recovery more than it helped. Confidence was completely shattered of course. I think it was because of the tire pressures, temps being too low, and MDM interfering too soon or at the wrong time.

In the afternoon, the sun came out and dried the surface, and we ran the longer part of the track. The track was far more predictable and there was some grip. After the first two runs, I had more confidence on most parts of the track, the car, and myself. However, the brakes were inconsistent from turn to turn. On some turns, I could brake nicely, but on a couple of the turns, the ABS would kick in too early. I had real difficulty judging the braking distances. This could have been due to clean vs. dirty surfaces on different turns.

Overall, for being on track with this car first time, I came off the event positively and I am looking forward to the first HPDE in March. The M3 definitely has great potential to be a fun car on the track, I need to try aim for higher tire pressures, turn the MDM off, and focus on driving. I welcome any other suggestions.

I was only able to record a couple of runs, so here is one to give an idea on trackcross format. I am not sure I would do another trackcross, I think prefer autoxing or full-on HPDE to this format. Although I am glad I got to try it:

[Needsdecaf]

Thanks for the write up.

100% your inconsistent braking was due to varying grip levels. In that sort of running, you're not pushing the brakes to the point where overheating is present and it wouldn't be so inconsistent.

Looks like fun!

[kjx]

Nice write-up. PS4S is completely the wrong tire to be running at 38 F (or anything less than 50 F if you want good performance), and it's horrible if it's also wet at low temps.

I'd say you'd have enjoyed this a whole lot more on a DWS tire as the grip is phenomenal in all cold conditions. Had it out at 20 F (dry) yesterday and it's like PS4S on a 65 F day up to 90 mph. When wet, it cuts through standing water like a knife through butter in a way that the PS4S simply cannot (aquaplanes).

As a counter point, the DWS tire should not be run above 60 F - braking distances are significantly worser than the PS4S (it will start skidding much sooner than you expect) and squeals very loudly in fast corners at 'summer-high-perf tire' temperatures.

[/ / / M3]

38F = 3C. I'm not surprised that you had traction issues with PS4S's. Below 7C (45F), summer tires lose their effectiveness real quick.

[CJ421]

Great writeup. Summit Point is difficult without much grip because of all the braking. I'm also surprised you were able to do what you did with the PS4S.

I've also never heard of TrackCross, not sure I'd do it ...I need a couple laps to get "in the groove" and I think my mind would never catch up doing it one at a time ...

Charles

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by / / / M3

38F = 3C. I'm not surprised that you had traction issues with PS4S's. Below 7C (45F), summer tires lose their effectiveness real quick.

I certainly can verify that now first hand

Although, there were other cars on summer tires, ranging from PS4S to RE71S, etc. I am not sure how well they did. I wish I could compare my times, unfortunately, for some unknown reason, my last two run (fastest ones) did not post, which is the frustrating part.

Originally Posted by CJ421

Great writeup. Summit Point is difficult without much grip because of all the braking. I'm also surprised you were able to do what you did with the PS4S.

I've also never heard of TrackCross, not sure I'd do it ...I need a couple laps to get "in the groove" and I think my mind would never catch up doing it one at a time ...

Charles

Yes, I hadn't heard of trackcross either, found it on motorsportreg, and signed up for it. The braking zones were really tough for me. For example, not knowing the surface going into T3, I was braking early and overslowing, then going into T5, I was cautious but tried to brake a bit later each time, and ABS would kick in and screw up the trailing of the brakes again overslowing me. Then going into T10, ABS would kick in at different locations. I guess that's really the challenge with these events, Drivers who could figure out and adapt to the conditions quicker, the better times they'd have.

However, I am with you, I prefer building up my speed over a couple of laps and enjoy the whole track at least for 10-12 laps with other cars around. Even time attacks are a better format. Given it is January, and I could get on track, drive as best as I could and talk cars with others, I think we got our money's worth

[Allerum]

"Yes, I hadn't heard of trackcross either, found it on motorsportreg, and signed up for it. The braking zones were really tough for me. For example, not knowing the surface going into T3, I was braking early and overslowing, then going into T5, I was cautious but tried to bake a bit later each time, and ABS would kick in and screw up the trailing of the brakes again overslowing me. Then going into T10, ABS would kick in at different locations. I guess that's really the challenge with these events, Drivers who could figure out and adapt to the conditions quicker, the better times they'd have.

However, I am with you, I prefer building up my speed over a couple of laps and enjoy the whole track at least for 10-12 laps with other cars around. Even time attacks are a better format. Given it is January, and I could get on track, drive as best as I could and talk cars with others, I think we got our money's worth "

That was a large portion of the track. Usually it cuts out main straights for the main purpose of reducing brake wear and risk. Track cross for me is about the technical portion of the tracks sans the risk of main straight brakes. I agree with others on your tires were not right for that temp. I will be getting out to summit point soon.

But the short stints help keep wear down some on tires and brakes since your not doing lap after lap.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

on track. MDM was on, but frankly, I think it hindered the recovery more than it helped. Confidence was completely shattered of course. I think it was because of the tire pressures, temps being too low, and MDM interfering too soon or at the wrong time.
]

Wow. Can you explain more?
Is is cos MDM and you were both applying inputs to correct the trajectory hence too many cooks?

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by g21

Wow. Can you explain more?
Is is cos MDM and you were both applying inputs to correct the trajectory hence too many cooks?

I don't think I could summarize it better than saying "too many cooks in the kitchen."

I'll explain the details, maybe you can offer a different conclusion.

The turn is a medium-speed 80 deg. left-hander with maybe 6-8% uphill gradient. An average track driver would comfortably take this turn above 70 mph, good drivers get close to 75-78 and with slicks you can do 85+.

I am past the apex at 65-67 mph, squeezing the throttle, I am comfortably approaching the outer rumble strips on the exit. The rear is modestly stepping out, I countersteer gently, staying on the throttle but I am not squeezing it anymore, just maintenance throttle to keep the weight on the rear. I don't want the weight to transfer to the front, otherwise it will snap the rear. I am thinking "I got this slide, no worries, it will straighten up..."

To my complete surprise, the rear snaps rather violently to the left, I frantically turn the steering as fast as I can, catch the 1st snap, and I know the 2nd snap to the right is coming, so I immediately steer frantically on the opposite direction, and the 2nd snap is milder. I am now thinking "I think it is done now, relax." But nope, it starts snapping to the left again. As I am, again, turning the steering wheel, I told myself to get off the throttle completely, and I did. The car settled on the front axle and after a couple of more minor steering corrections, we are all good.

After the run, as I am thinking what the heck happened, I first blamed the tire pressures, then I thought I probably do not yet understand the car well enough. And all this are probably true, but then I remembered I never turned off MDM. I never run with stability controls on, only traction control set to minimum when on track. Then things started to make more sense to me. I think MDM thought it is taking too long for me to control the first oversteer and intervened throwing the car to the other side and as I kept my foot on the throttle, as little as it was, it probably thought it will control the car for me. It wasn't until I took my foot off the throttle completely that the car started behaving normally.

I do not know how MDM logic works, this is all a guess for me. I won't know if I am right or wrong until I get on the track and turn it off and see what happens.

Any other thoughts? Should I have dealt with the situation differently?

[G30M]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

I don't think I could summarize it better than saying "too many cooks in the kitchen."

I'll explain the details, maybe you can offer a different conclusion.

The turn is a medium-speed 80 deg. left-hander with maybe 6-8% uphill gradient. An average track driver would comfortably take this turn above 70 mph, good drivers get close to 75-78 and with slicks you can do 85+.

I am past the apex at 65-67 mph, squeezing the throttle, I am comfortably approaching the outer rumble strips on the exit. The rear is modestly stepping out, I countersteer gently, staying on the throttle but I am not squeezing it anymore, just maintenance throttle to keep the weight on the rear. I don't want the weight to transfer to the front, otherwise it will snap the rear. I am thinking "I got this slide, no worries, it will straighten up..."

To my complete surprise, the rear snaps rather violently to the left, I frantically turn the steering as fast as I can, catch the 1st snap, and I know the 2nd snap to the right is coming, so I immediately steer frantically on the opposite direction, and the 2nd snap is milder. I am now thinking "I think it is done now, relax." But nope, it starts snapping to the left again. As I am, again, turning the steering wheel, I told myself to get off the throttle completely, and I did. The car settled on the front axle and after a couple of more minor steering corrections, we are all good.

After the run, as I am thinking what the heck happened, I first blamed the tire pressures, then I thought I probably do not yet understand the car well enough. And all this are probably true, but then I remembered I never turned off MDM. I never run with stability controls on, only traction control set to minimum when on track. Then things started to make more sense to me. I think MDM thought it is taking too long for me to control the first oversteer and intervened throwing the car to the other side and as I kept my foot on the throttle, as little as it was, it probably thought it will control the car for me. It wasn't until I took my foot off the throttle completely that the car started behaving normally.

I do not know how MDM logic works, this is all a guess for me. I won't know if I am right or wrong until I get on the track and turn it off and see what happens.

Any other thoughts? Should I have dealt with the situation differently?

i have tested "traction plus" on my M340i.

the way traction plus works is, if you don't counter steer the computer will let the car oversteer. i tried this on a carpark and i did a 180 when i turned the car left, it started to oversteer, i straightened the wheel, the car ended up pointing the other way.

then i did the same thing, turned the car in the wet, it started to oversteer, i counter steered, the car violently overcorrects and starts oversteering the other way, i counter steer, it violently corrects, after a few counter steers it pointed straight.

if MDM works like my Traction plus, (short press TC off), then you have described the exact same thing i experienced.

so yeah maybe TC off lol. i hear in your car you can put it in 2WD and select 10 levels of TC - now that would take a while to figure out on a wet carpark!

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

I don't think I could summarize it better than saying "too many cooks in the kitchen."

I'll explain the details, maybe you can offer a different conclusion.

The turn is a medium-speed 80 deg. left-hander with maybe 6-8% uphill gradient. An average track driver would comfortably take this turn above 70 mph, good drivers get close to 75-78 and with slicks you can do 85+.

I am past the apex at 65-67 mph, squeezing the throttle, I am comfortably approaching the outer rumble strips on the exit. The rear is modestly stepping out, I countersteer gently, staying on the throttle but I am not squeezing it anymore, just maintenance throttle to keep the weight on the rear. I don't want the weight to transfer to the front, otherwise it will snap the rear. I am thinking "I got this slide, no worries, it will straighten up..."

To my complete surprise, the rear snaps rather violently to the left, I frantically turn the steering as fast as I can, catch the 1st snap, and I know the 2nd snap to the right is coming, so I immediately steer frantically on the opposite direction, and the 2nd snap is milder. I am now thinking "I think it is done now, relax." But nope, it starts snapping to the left again. As I am, again, turning the steering wheel, I told myself to get off the throttle completely, and I did. The car settled on the front axle and after a couple of more minor steering corrections, we are all good.

After the run, as I am thinking what the heck happened, I first blamed the tire pressures, then I thought I probably do not yet understand the car well enough. And all this are probably true, but then I remembered I never turned off MDM. I never run with stability controls on, only traction control set to minimum when on track. Then things started to make more sense to me. I think MDM thought it is taking too long for me to control the first oversteer and intervened throwing the car to the other side and as I kept my foot on the throttle, as little as it was, it probably thought it will control the car for me. It wasn't until I took my foot off the throttle completely that the car started behaving normally.

I do not know how MDM logic works, this is all a guess for me. I won't know if I am right or wrong until I get on the track and turn it off and see what happens.

Any other thoughts? Should I have dealt with the situation differently?

MDM permits a fair amount of slide, but so far tracking in MDM is better than off as it does still have stability control but not traction control. But what I am doing different than you is, that once it begins to slide I am adding throttle because it is going to transfer that power to the front soon and then pull itself out of the slide. In 4WD Sport and MDM your at 80% Rear and it will transfer more as it detects wheel spin. But I don't let it get more than a few degrees slide. Are you cutting your throttle input when it starts to slide? I would see what it does with adding throttle. In my video I don't really let it get too out of shape though as I wasn't looking for a big drift.

[G30 B58]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

Given it is January, and I could get on track, drive as best as I could and talk cars with others, I think we got our money's worth

Cars & Coffee, only better, WAY BETTER.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

First time I had the chance to take the car on a proper track at speed. Also, this was the first time I tried this "trackcross" format. Came out with mixed feelings.

The format is a mix of autocross and time attack, except the runs are not through the entire track, only a portion of it, standing start. The nice part of it is that they are timed runs, so we get to compete without turning continuous laps. The advantage is a stock car with street brake pads, fluid, tires, etc. is perfectly fine. And we get to go as fast as we dare going, unlike autox where the speeds generally are below 60 mph, and there aren't any cones to navigate through.

First time with the car on track was a learning adventure. I really had to manage the power, which is something nice to have. The weather was typical Mid-Atlantic in January. We started off with a damp track at 38 degF. The track in the morning was very unpredictable, even with street tires traction on various parts of the track was very difficult to judge, let alone setting the tire pressures. The PS4S tires never had enough temp and my tire pressures barely reached 34 psi, I started off at 30 psi all around.

After my first timed run, waiting for the 2nd, a car went off course hitting the tire wall, and bringing a lot of mud onto the track surface, we had to wait an extended time on grid for it to be cleared. In the meantime, the track showed signs on some parts of drying. Eventually, I started my second run, and through one of the critical turns, I saw the racing line was dry, squeezed the throttle after the apex, and had a scary tank slapper at about 60-65 mph, which luckily I was able to catch and stay on track. MDM was on, but frankly, I think it hindered the recovery more than it helped. Confidence was completely shattered of course. I think it was because of the tire pressures, temps being too low, and MDM interfering too soon or at the wrong time.

In the afternoon, the sun came out and dried the surface, and we ran the longer part of the track. The track was far more predictable and there was some grip. After the first two runs, I had more confidence on most parts of the track, the car, and myself. However, the brakes were inconsistent from turn to turn. On some turns, I could brake nicely, but on a couple of the turns, the ABS would kick in too early. I had real difficulty judging the braking distances. This could have been due to clean vs. dirty surfaces on different turns.

Overall, for being on track with this car first time, I came off the event positively and I am looking forward to the first HPDE in March. The M3 definitely has great potential to be a fun car on the track, I need to try aim for higher tire pressures, turn the MDM off, and focus on driving. I welcome any other suggestions.

I was only able to record a couple of runs, so here is one to give an idea on trackcross format. I am not sure I would do another trackcross, I think prefer autoxing or full-on HPDE to this format. Although I am glad I got to try it:

This is incredible. I was contemplating bringing my M2 out too but was unable. Hope to see you at one of the NASA HPDE events perhaps.

May I ask what camera you used and how you had it mounted? The overlays, was it part of the M Performance software?

I have a dedicated race car with AIM Solo 2 and SmartyCam 3 but want to video my HPDE runs in the M2 as well. Thank you in advance.

Lutfy

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by lutfy

This is incredible. I was contemplating bringing my M2 out too but was unable. Hope to see you at one of the NASA HPDE events perhaps.

May I ask what camera you used and how you had it mounted? The overlays, was it part of the M Performance software?

I have a dedicated race car with AIM Solo 2 and SmartyCam 3 but want to video my HPDE runs in the M2 as well. Thank you in advance.

Lutfy

It would have been great to meet you in person, Lutfy. I have been following you for a long time.

I generally run with NCC and PCA, and not NASA. I hope we’ll get to meet soon.

I am using iPhone 14Max with the M Perf Analyzer. Simple and sufficient for now. I used to use Solo 2 and Smartycam, which I love and the data is far more useful than what M Perf Anal. can offer.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by Allerum

MDM permits a fair amount of slide, but so far tracking in MDM is better than off as it does still have stability control but not traction control. But what I am doing different than you is, that once it begins to slide I am adding throttle because it is going to transfer that power to the front soon and then pull itself out of the slide. In 4WD Sport and MDM your at 80% Rear and it will transfer more as it detects wheel spin. But I don't let it get more than a few degrees slide. Are you cutting your throttle input when it starts to slide? I would see what it does with adding throttle. In my video I don't really let it get too out of shape though as I wasn't looking for a big drift.

This is interesting. I hadn’t thought about the torque split to the front, thank you.

What I think I have done is as the rear started to slide in the first instance, I stopped squeezing the throttle, just kept it steady. It wasn’t until the second snap that I backed off the throttle. I highly doubt I added more throttle. Of course, as you would know, sometimes what we think we did wasn’t at all what we actually did. Without actual trace, I am only going with what I think I did

Next time it happens, hopefully I will have the time to remember to add more throttle to observe the reaction.

[M4ROLLIN20]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

I don't think I could summarize it better than saying "too many cooks in the kitchen."

I'll explain the details, maybe you can offer a different conclusion.

The turn is a medium-speed 80 deg. left-hander with maybe 6-8% uphill gradient. An average track driver would comfortably take this turn above 70 mph, good drivers get close to 75-78 and with slicks you can do 85+.

I am past the apex at 65-67 mph, squeezing the throttle, I am comfortably approaching the outer rumble strips on the exit. The rear is modestly stepping out, I countersteer gently, staying on the throttle but I am not squeezing it anymore, just maintenance throttle to keep the weight on the rear. I don't want the weight to transfer to the front, otherwise it will snap the rear. I am thinking "I got this slide, no worries, it will straighten up..."

To my complete surprise, the rear snaps rather violently to the left, I frantically turn the steering as fast as I can, catch the 1st snap, and I know the 2nd snap to the right is coming, so I immediately steer frantically on the opposite direction, and the 2nd snap is milder. I am now thinking "I think it is done now, relax." But nope, it starts snapping to the left again. As I am, again, turning the steering wheel, I told myself to get off the throttle completely, and I did. The car settled on the front axle and after a couple of more minor steering corrections, we are all good.

After the run, as I am thinking what the heck happened, I first blamed the tire pressures, then I thought I probably do not yet understand the car well enough. [...]

Why didn’t you play with the settings ie MDM mode off on etc as you were driving through the turns to see which way felt better to you?

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by M4ROLLIN20

Why didn’t you play with the settings ie MDM mode off on etc as you were driving through the turns to see which way felt better to you?

First, the track surface was cold and I was too worried about tire heat and pressures to turn off MDM.

Second, I only got 3 runs, each about 80 secs. I did not want to play around with settings and just focus on driving safely and as best as I could given my chosen settings.

This is not like regular lapping, where I would have 12-15 laps to play around with various settings that would fit me and the conditions of the day

[M4ROLLIN20]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

First, the track surface was cold and I was too worried about tire heat and pressures to turn off MDM.

Second, I only got 3 runs, each about 80 secs. I did not want to play around with settings and just focus on driving safely and as best as I could given my chosen settings.

This is not like regular lapping, where I would have 12-15 laps to play around with various settings that would fit me and the conditions of the day

Gotcha, but as you said, you’re new to the car. As time passes and you’re more comfortable with your car, you’ll be driving like the Stig in no time. 💨

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by M4ROLLIN20

Gotcha, but as you said, you’re new to the car. As time passes and you’re more comfortable with your car, you’ll be driving like the Stig in no time. 💨

I wish, but thank you for the encouragement

[narudnad]

Nice write up and thanks for the video. Mind sharing where you got the mperformance overlay on the video? Map, mph, rpm, GForce etc. Thanks!

[sammyj]

Originally Posted by narudnad

Nice write up and thanks for the video. Mind sharing where you got the mperformance overlay on the video? Map, mph, rpm, GForce etc. Thanks!

Following.

Also, what was your camera setup here?

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by narudnad

Nice write up and thanks for the video. Mind sharing where you got the mperformance overlay on the video? Map, mph, rpm, GForce etc. Thanks!

Thank you!

The setup is very simple: I purchased the ODB reader (https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...id-61432450841), installed the M Performance Analyzer app on my iPhone 14 Max, and that's it.

The app connects to the ODB connector via Bluetooth, you enter your VIN into the app, select the car model from the app database, and that's it. I position the phone with a two-suction mount behind the passenger seat, hit record, and it records when the car moves, and stops recording when the car is turned off automatically.

For the price, it is good value. But, it does not record lap times or any data other than what you see on the screen. It is not customizable in terms of graphics. When the session is done, I export the video, which it stores in Photos, then I transfer to my Mac for editing.

If you are after detail data analytics, this is not the right solution. I'd prefer to go the AIM or VBOX route for that. But for my beginner purposes, this is sufficient for now.