[Tyga11]

Originally Posted by mn_bmw

I don't understand why people think AWD is safer. It only helps you take off faster and avoid getting stuck, otherwise it's the same car only heavier. Before active handling and traction control AWD was definitely safer, but now not so much.

It's easier to drive. For example, you can floor it off a red light and not go sideways.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by mn_bmw

How is that safer?

I really wasnt making a safety argument in the post you responded to; I was making more of a performance argument.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by mn_bmw

I personally think it's a false sense of security and may even contribute to dangerous situations. I live in Minneapolis, and without fail every year I see more 4x4's in the ditch than any other type of car. Winter tires are exponentially more important than AWD vs RWD for safety.

Originally Posted by Gfit

Again, most seem to focus on awd and driving in the snow. No manufacturer designs high performance, 500+hp, cars for driving in the snow. It's for additional performance off the line and pulling out of tight turns a bit faster.

No, no manufacturer designs high performance cars to drive in the snow, but they do design high performance cars to perform better in the wet. So, in this way, I believe AWD performance cars like a 911 Turbo and the AWD G8X AWD do provide added ability and safety when the roads are wet. Of course, when the roads have ice or snow, you should have snow tires or tire chains. Basically, most of us should just stay home when the roads are snow- or ice-covered, unless you absolutely have to leave your house for some reason.

So, ultimately, I believe it's still safe to say that AWD does make performance cars "safer" across more driving conditions than RWD, even on track when you're traveling at the limit...where AWD systems have an easier time pulling you through and out of turns when the car is at the edge of adhesion. In my mind, this adds to the performance, and also makes the car safer...minimizing your chances of spinning and losing control.

Safety and performance can be one in the same when it comes to preventing a car's loss of control, either on the road, or at the track.

[Gfit]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

No, no manufacturer designs high performance cars to drive in the snow, but they do design high performance cars to perform better in the wet. So, in this way, I believe AWD performance cars like a 911 Turbo and the AWD G8X AWD do provide added ability and safety when the roads are wet. Of course, when the roads have ice or snow, you should have snow tires or tire chains. Basically, most of us should just stay home when the roads are snow- or ice-covered, unless you absolutely have to leave your house for some reason.

So, ultimately, I believe it's still safe to say that AWD does make performance cars "safer" across more driving conditions than RWD, even on track when you're traveling at the limit...where AWD systems have an easier time pulling you through and out of turns when the car is at the edge of adhesion. In my mind, this adds to the performance, and also makes the car safer...minimizing your chances of spinning and losing control.

Safety and performance can be one in the same when it comes to preventing a car's loss of control, either on the road, or at the track.

Agreed 100%

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

The X drive simply makes sense, for most people.

Having said that, I own a RWD, and since I never drive aggressively in inclement weather, and I love the way this G8X RWD platform feels, I definitely don't want or need an AWD G8X. I've always preferred RWD over AWD, when given the option.

But again, for most, I think the AWD is simply the best option...especially if you love racing from stop lights. I'm lucky if I do this even once a year, as it's just not me. I'm a track guy, high-speed guy, and a backroad guy...and as such, this RWD suits me just fine.

Same. I have a RWD comp lease and when this lease is over, if the car is that good, i may finance another (to keep longer) but i'll go for the x-drive. I want as many revisions/updates as much as possible anyway.

Coming from a guy who had mainly 95% RWD cars as toys, i don't have a need for AWD since i always use all seasons or winter tires for the colder months anyway.

I feel like if i did get AWD, the party trick would be great 0-60 times, in which is boring to me. I like having fun on the move. Not trying to get away from someone at a light.

If i wanted just that, i'd get a tesla 3 or a tesla Y performance and basically destroy nearly everything in my way from a stop light.

But i don't want that (although i am getting a tesla in spring lol) so i opted for the RWD comp.

I have other cars to use so another reason i didn't feel the need for AWD.

[Purekoryo]

Steering feel/response is important to me and yes I know it’s not as great as a P car but don’t want it to be noticeably worse in AWD. Have you noticed any difference in both?

Originally Posted by Vic55

I wrote this on page 1 as one of the few owners of both G80 iterations (RWD and X Drive)

You can not really tell the difference unless you already knew about it or doing some unique controlled rolling tests with proper gear. The cars drive incredibly similar on street roads and big turns and sharp curves. This is of course while rolling but everyone knows the gap is from the launch and in some cases from a moving situation where traction is limited or weather is an issue. Its mash and go!!

The day I took delivery of my X drive; i drove it about 110 miles home from the dealer thru open express ways, traffic, turns, etc. The difference is negligible.

[Gfit]

Originally Posted by Purekoryo

Steering feel/response is important to me and yes I know it’s not as great as a P car but don’t want it to be noticeably worse in AWD. Have you noticed any difference in both?

There are already 2 reviews posted on this thread that say they can not tell the difference

[G80indy]

Live in Indy but still going for RWD

[TigahRouge]

I have the RWD and I Love it!! Get the AWD…it is the best of both worlds!!

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Purekoryo

Steering feel/response is important to me and yes I know it’s not as great as a P car but don’t want it to be noticeably worse in AWD. Have you noticed any difference in both?

The steering difference is negligible at best. Comparing it in the context of the two G80 variations; I doubt 99% of the regular drivers could tell the difference in steering which is only affected in minute amounts because of axel weight and drive.

If I gave a driver the RWD and AWD car (and didnt tell them which was was which) and had them drive the car in turns and rolls (no digs) they would not know the difference (all settings the same). Its that good in the X drive.

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by Vic55

The steering difference is negligible at best. Comparing it in the context of the two G80 variations; I doubt 99% of the regular drivers could tell the difference in steering which is only affected in minute amounts because of axel weight and drive.

If I gave a driver the RWD and AWD car (and didnt tell them which was was which) and had them drive the car in turns and rolls (no digs) they would not know the difference (all settings the same). Its that good in the X drive.

I'd say that's the ultimate compliment for the RWD.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by 2011ninja

I'd say that's the ultimate compliment for the RWD.

Or vice a versa since I was specifically speaking about steering. And a rwd car should generally have a better steering feel than AWD in most regards but not here. Its that good in AWD setup.

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Or vice a versa since I was specifically speaking about steering. And a rwd car should generally have a better steering feel than AWD in most regards but not here. Its that good in AWD setup.

Ahhhh yes! Agreed!!!!!

[Brazilian_BAMF]

Besides the price and weight increased(For normal people is not even noticeable) .

AWD with the M Drive should the way to go. It could be AWD and RWD.

[bk_g80_m3]

Random vid I found if a couple of guys flogging xdrive in the rain in scotland :

Fwiw - I’m likely going to go xdrive. Imo even in the dry the car will hook up so much better.

[RichardGM4]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Minor performance increase?

It’s almost 25% faster 0 to 60. I would not call that minor. That’s massive. I had the rear wheel drive and traded it in. My all-wheel-drive will be here hopefully before Christmas.

I'm with you - I have an F82 Competition and have just put down my deposit for a G82 Competition AWD - primarily because of the extra traction in the wet (UK problem lol) but also, the improved 0-60 time will be far more beneficial than the downside of the transmission losses over 140mph!

[RichardGM4]

Originally Posted by Gfit

There are already 2 reviews posted on this thread that say they can not tell the difference

Make that 3 - I currently drive an F82 Comp and have driven the G80 Comp AWD demo car and I couldn't notice any issues with the steering or extra weight!

[DavidXJ]

Originally Posted by mn_bmw

I personally think it's a false sense of security and may even contribute to dangerous situations. I live in Minneapolis, and without fail every year I see more 4x4's in the ditch than any other type of car. Winter tires are exponentially more important than AWD vs RWD for safety.

As someone contemplating my options for stepping up to a G80 from a M340ix, this has been a very enlightening thread to follow. I've appreciated Vic55's balanced and candid reflections on the RWD vs xdrive models, a truly informed perspective that surely gives us much to contemplate--and, clearly, much to debate!

However, unlike--I can only assume!--many folks on here, I am on a budget and, therefore, as much as I've valued first-hand the advantages of the xdrive on my 40i (especially when pushing it rather cheekily through corners in the wet), I do have to ask myself whether it really would be indispensable on the G80, when by all accounts the grip on the RWD version is absolutely stellar. I wouldn't be interested in drag racing some plonker in a RS5 at the lights; nor do I think I'd be able to tell the perceptual difference when being hurtled to 60 half a second faster in the xdrive; nor will I be aggressively throwing my new M3 into corners on dreary days here in damp England. Indeed, I agree with mn_bmw that, in such conditions, the xdrive can routinely give you a false sense of security, inviting you to stab the power down way too early--as I've discovered in my G20. To be sure, it's fun and builds confidence; but I don't feel like I need to be acting like that all the time.

All of which is to say, if you were in my shoes and keeping an eye on the price (which soon mounts up, as we all know, once you start speccing the packs/add-ons), is AWD really that essential? It's not like I'm guaranteed to be negotiating snow for weeks on end every winter (such extreme freezes are few and far between). And it sounds like the RWD comp is a thoroughly competent car and far from a liability, given the way it can marshal and channel all that power safely and with composure through the rear axle. I fully appreciate the brilliance of what the M division have evidently done with the xdrive in maintaining the steering feel, weight, and balance. But in my case, I'm honestly wondering whether it warrants the additional outlay.

Cheers,

D

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by DavidXJ

All of which is to say, if you were in my shoes and keeping an eye on the price (which soon mounts up, as we all know, once you start speccing the packs/add-ons), is AWD really that essential? It's not like I'm guaranteed to be negotiating snow for weeks on end every winter (such extreme freezes are few and far between). And it seems like the RWD comp is a thoroughly competent car and far from a liability in terms of the way it can marshal and channel all that power through the rear axel. I fully appreciate the brilliance of what the M division have evidently done with the xdrive in maintaining the steering feel and balance etc. But in my case, I'm wondering whether it warrants the additional outlay.

Cheers,

D

David, unless you

*have to take your new BMW out when it snows or when there's ice
*like to drive spiritedly in inclement weather (i.e. driving fast in the rain)
*are a preeminent stoplight racer, treating traffic lights like drag race light trees

...then you definitely don't need to purchase an AWD. The traction of the RWD platform is amazingly capable. With the Traction Control on, you'd have to be driving like a complete idiot to lose control of the car. And with the MDM on, it'll let you slide just enough to feel like a hero, and then it will bring you back in line. With so much torque, you have to be REALLY careful turning the TC off on public roads (hec, even on a track), because this car will break traction quickly with no electronic assistance.

The BMW engineers have done an amazing job with the RWD platform, giving you loads of confidence in most situations, without the nannies killing all the fun. Yes, it will kill some of the fun, if you simply stomp on it, or feed in too much throttle around a tight turn. But since the car has more than enough power, I haven't found the nannies intrusive enough to spoil my fun. This car is big, and it's heavy, so the laws of physics certainly apply...thus with the TC off, we have to be extremely careful. Of course with the AWD, you can likely turn the TC off in the dry, but again, you still have to respect its size and weight.

And if you get the 10-stage Traction Control, then you can dial in the exact amount of slip you're comfortable with. But really, this option is not necessary either, if you're penching pennies. The car is loads of fun right out of the box. I'd focus more on the appearance options you want, so always smile when you approach your car. None of the performance options are absolutely necessary.

Looking back, I didn't need the 10-stage TC (within the M Drive Professional option), nor the Parking Assistance Package (the Drive Recorder isn't great). Just save your money. Simply focus on the appearance options you want.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

David, unless you

*have to take your new BMW out when it snows or when there's ice
*like to drive spiritedly in inclement weather (i.e. driving fast in the rain)
*are a preeminent stoplight racer, treating traffic lights like drag race light trees

...then you definitely don't need to purchase an AWD. The traction of the RWD platform is amazingly capable. With the Traction Control on, you'd have to be driving like a complete idiot to lose control of the car. And with the MDM on, it'll let you slide just enough to feel like a hero, and then it will bring you back in line. With so much torque, you have to be REALLY careful turning the TC off on public roads (hec, even on a track), because this car will break traction quickly with no electronic assistance.

The BMW engineers have done an amazing job with the RWD platform, giving you loads of confidence in most situations, without the nannies killing all the fun. Yes, it will kill some of the fun, if you simply stomp on it, or feed in too much throttle around a tight turn. But since the car has more than enough power, I haven't found the nannies intrusive enough to spoil my fun. This car is big, and it's heavy, so the laws of physics certainly apply...thus with the TC off, we have to be extremely careful. Of course with the AWD, you can likely turn the TC off in the dry, but again, you still have to respect its size and weight.

And if you get the 10-stage Traction Control, then you can dial in the exact amount of slip you're comfortable with. But really, this option is not necessary either, if you're penching pennies. The car is loads of fun right out of the box. I'd focus more on the appearance options you want, so always smile when you approach your car. None of the performance options are absolutely necessary.

Looking back, I didn't need the 10-stage TC (within the M Drive Professional option), nor the Parking Assistance Package (the Drive Recorder isn't great). Just save your money. Simply focus on the appearance options you want.

Can you show me an article where the reason why BMW even started putting xdrives in their vehicles was for inclement weather? I always thought it was for performance enhancement in ALL conditions. Then again my wife says I’m wrong all the time so there you go. Thank you.


PS- To David- you can do all those things he just talked about with the AWD G8X also because you can just turn AWD off anytime you want or turn it back on. So there’s that.

[DavidXJ]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

David, unless you

*have to take your new BMW out when it snows or when there's ice
*like to drive spiritedly in inclement weather (i.e. driving fast in the rain)
*are a preeminent stoplight racer, treating traffic lights like drag race light trees

...then you definitely don't need to purchase an AWD. The traction of the RWD platform is amazingly capable. With the Traction Control on, you'd have to be driving like a complete idiot to lose control of the car. And with the MDM on, it'll let you slide just enough to feel like a hero, and then it will bring you back in line. With so much torque, you have to be REALLY careful turning the TC off on public roads (hec, even on a track), because this car will break traction quickly with no electronic assistance.

The BMW engineers have done an amazing job with the RWD platform, giving you loads of confidence in most situations, without the nannies killing all the fun. Yes, it will kill some of the fun, if you simply stomp on it, or feed in too much throttle around a tight turn. But since the car has more than enough power, I haven't found the nannies intrusive enough to spoil my fun. This car is big, and it's heavy, so the laws of physics certainly apply...thus with the TC off, we have to be extremely careful. Of course with the AWD, you can likely turn the TC off in the dry, but again, you still have to respect its size and weight.

And if you get the 10-stage Traction Control, then you can dial in the exact amount of slip you're comfortable with. But really, this option is not necessary either, if you're penching pennies. The car is loads of fun right out of the box. I'd focus more on the appearance options you want, so always smile when you approach your car. None of the performance options are absolutely necessary.

Looking back, I didn't need the 10-stage TC (within the M Drive Professional option), nor the Parking Assistance Package (the Drive Recorder isn't great). Just save your money. Simply focus on the appearance options you want.

You know, this is why I so genuinely value this forum--because you can solicit and gratefully receive generous and informed advice like this! Thank you, Kevin. I really appreciate it. And you confirm pretty much all my own inklings about this decision. My modus op as a driver is basically enjoying the exhaust note, feeling the poise through sweeping bends, and taking pleasure in manoeuvrability and nimbleness (which the G20 already has in abundance) along twisty backroads, whenever parenthood and profession give me the chance--rather than seeking out the extreme edge of grip (and physics) by twitching the TC off. I don't imagine pressing the car to its outer limits or performing self-gratifying drifts around a damp track either!

And you're right: the appearance options feel like more of an appropriate focus, in my case. Which is why I was eyeing the admittedly expensive but rather flattering Carbon Exterior Styling option, since it really transforms the front end and complements the complexion of a Tanzanite G80 (TBII already being the colour of my 40i, but I just can't get over how good it looks, despite it being a predictable pain to keep clean).

Anyway, thanks again for the reassurances about what's pragmatically sensible here re. RWD vs xdrive.

D

[kjx]

5 out of 5 M3s currently in transit to my dealership are AWD.

7 out of 8 M4s currently in transit to my dealership are AWD.

Aside from what has been hashed out many times on this thread conclusively, this tells you what you need to know about what people really think about the RWD M cars.