[Jobe10]

Originally Posted by Hendo741

Its just a car. Kids have to learn somewhere, and insurance exists for a reason.

I let my 20 YO son take my tuned RS3 on track a few years ago. He drove the RS3, I drove my Supra. I no longer own either of those cars lol.

This has nothing to do with the fact that it's just a car. It's the fact that it's a 510hp car. They are kids, it doesn't matter how responsible they are. They are still kids and there will be a moment they will take it a little further. If they have an accident and or hurt, or worse, I don't think insurance is gonna help you with bringing them back.

So to answer his question, I would not let my kids drive my M3 (alone). In the car with me, sure. But alone, never in my life will I even consider it. I know how I was when I was 18,19,20. It would not have ended well if my dad gave me his 911.

[KANdaddy]

Hell-to-the-F’n-no.

[Llarry]

My "kid" is 47 and she is not into cars at all. So NO!

[8262S]

If your 16 year old had 20-25 hours of instruction time in a Cessna 172 and the CFI said they were ready to solo, would you let them do it?

First solo is three touch and goes in the pattern.

At about 35 hours they will be flying to the practice area solo to do maneuvers (which includes steep turns, stalls, and emergency descents). They will also have to complete several cross country solo flights.

They could be flying solo into and out of a busy airport being sequenced with commercial (“follow that Airbus, caution wake turbulence, cleared to land runway 18”) and military aircraft.

They could at 16 get their private pilots license anytime after 40 hours (more likely 50-75) and take their friends on a cross country to the next state.

They would be expected to do all weather planning and handle any emergencies or a variety of complex problems that could happen while on the ground or in the air. They could also be working on their IFR rating to fly in the clouds (statistically VFR pilots who fly into the clouds have 178 seconds to live).

Granted this is significantly more training than getting a drivers license, but aviation is absolutely unforgiving of mistakes. And you can’t pull over to the side of the road. But this is a mindset that should be reinforced for many years before they even drive off in the minivan.

Are we raising our children to be adults, or are we raising adult children?

[DO444]

Originally Posted by WallieX5

At what age would you let your kid drive your M3 on an errand? I have a college-aged kid that always begs to drive the M3 but I told him only if I’m in the car with him. He’s pretty responsible but still somewhat of a typical 20 year old. While I trust his driving skills, I’m scared that he will try to see how fast the car accelerates and drives.

Fuck
No.

Not about money.
I want them to live.
Car is too fast.

[davidmct-M3]

Originally Posted by JY01

What does he currently drive, and what’s the fastest car he’s driven so far? If he has experience driving quick cars and/or you think he’s worked his way up enough, I would say go for it after sitting passenger a few times to get him familiar with the car and its power. If your M3 is xDrive there’s a little less to worry about.

I would second this. Training and practice are key. However, you do need to be aware of teenager/young adults are still maturing mentally and are prone to rash behaviour - look at young driver insurance rates. The need to be accepted and showing off to friends can go horribly wrong. Also their assessment of risk is distorted. (Mind you same thing happens towards old age &#128512

[Nate.G82]

I think it's less about age and more about experience and how you raise them. If he hasn't had experience with something this powerful, I'd recommend getting him started with a proper experience and guidance. If he's anything like any of us, he'll get one eventually through his own means either tomorrow or decades from now. Teach him how to drive it properly and how to keep it buttoned down when things get squirrely.

Like others have said, it's a car. That is replaceable, it'll hurt but it IS replaceable. Life is not. Giving your kids the means to learn and preventing them from causing a tragedy for you or anyone else is more important.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Jobe10

This has nothing to do with the fact that it's just a car. It's the fact that it's a 510hp car. They are kids, it doesn't matter how responsible they are. They are still kids and there will be a moment they will take it a little further. If they have an accident and or hurt, or worse, I don't think insurance is gonna help you with bringing them back.

So to answer his question, I would not let my kids drive my M3 (alone). In the car with me, sure. But alone, never in my life will I even consider it. I know how I was when I was 18,19,20. It would not have ended well if my dad gave me his 911.

Don’t know the stats, but I would be willing to bet more high speed accidents are caused by an older group. Just cause someone is 20 doesn’t mean they are going to crash. ALL those cars and coffe accidents are normally the New Balance/ striped tube sock age bracket. Just saying 🤣

[Devils41]

Saw another G80 at a local autox day. He brought his 15 year old son with his driver's permit (scca allows it). I thought it was the perfect place to let a kid experience the power in a safe environment. Worst you're gonna do is take out a cone.

[kjx]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Don’t know the stats, but I would be willing to bet more high speed accidents are caused by an older group. Just cause someone is 20 doesn’t mean they are going to crash.

There's a reason insurance for drivers less than 25 years of age is higher across insurance companies. <-- This is reliable as it's statistics at scale.

I have more peers who died in car accidents or were seriously injured in car/bike accidents when we were less than 25 than any age since. The number's been effectively zero past the group growing past that age. <-- This is true but anecdotal. Others may have other anecdotes that counter.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

I think mostly just safety concern. I agree stuff is just money. I think just easy to get hurt sometimes young people have a lot less fear.

I just got blown by on the right side by a young kid in a new Subaru Outback, looked like he was still in high school. He couldn’t control himself even looking at the m3, and felt compelled to show me what an idiot he was by flying by me on the right from out of nowhere. I’m sure his parents think he is a nice, responsible, young man.

I was doing 95, so he was easily doing 110 (likely more) because he slammed by me. Young people have no clue. I didn’t see him and he must have floored it from a long distance because he was not behind me from the on ramp. I could have easily switched lanes and that would have been the end of all of us.

A Subaru Outback, now how much easier is it to do that in an m3… except you’ll be doing 150. Zero chance of survival.

I just wouldn’t do it.
The temptation is too great and young people are too dumb. You are taking a great risk.

The car pushes you to go fast.
It’s not like driving another car where you can go fast, but it feels bad. This car begs to go faster and it can. Everything is pushing you to go fast.

Anyone who thinks a young man full of testosterone will never test that is kidding themselves. With very little experience, being young, it’s a bad idea.

I’ve crashed enough times that I know I don’t want to crash again, and I still speed, but I don’t speed like I did when I was 18. I’m constantly thinking about emergency braking.
I pay attention to speed differentials when passing because I understand other people may not be aware of me. I have a fear of death I didn’t have at 21.

I don’t think that most young people have the brains for it, frankly. Pretty soon I won’t either, once my synapses deteriorate a bit more.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by kjx

There's a reason insurance for drivers less than 25 years of age is higher across insurance companies. <— This is reliable as it's statistics at scale.

I have more peers who died in car accidents or were seriously injured in car/bike accidents when we were less than 25 than any age since. The number's been effectively zero past the group growing past that age. <— This is true but anecdotal. Others may have other anecdotes that counter.

Like I said, would love to see some real numbers on this. I highly doubt it’s one sided. On the insurance front. Fuck those scumbags. They do it cause they can. It should be just as high then for people in their 80’s that still drive? Everyone should have to re-test at some age. Then again, everyone is on their phone anyway😡 So the roads are just Loaded with people ready to kill. That is a FACT

[DO444]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Like I said, would love to see some real numbers on this. I highly doubt it’s one sided. On the insurance front. Fuck those scumbags. They do it cause they can. It should be just as high then for people in their 80’s that still drive? Everyone should have to re-test at some age. Then again, everyone is on their phone anyway😡 So the roads are just Loaded with people ready to kill. That is a FACT

If someone showed you the numbers, would you believe them?

They are out there and easily accessible.
25-44 crashes and burns, and you’re right about the 80yr olds.

Retesting is way too logical a thought.
That’s never going to happen.

[pureenergy68]

My son is 19 and inexperienced!! Maybe when he is 30!

[kjx]

Originally Posted by DO444

If someone showed you the numbers, would you believe them?

I'm sure G Money's a reasonable guy.

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Like I said, would love to see some real numbers on this. I highly doubt it’s one sided.

FWIW, here are numbers split by age group from the National Safety Council:
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-ve...age-of-driver/

And what is the National Safety Council: "The National Safety Council (NSC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, public service organization promoting health and safety in the United States. Headquartered in Itasca, Illinois, NSC is a member organization, founded in 1913 and granted a congressional charter in 1953."

Here's the exact chart you're looking for:

[geko29]

Originally Posted by Devils41

Saw another G80 at a local autox day. He brought his 15 year old son with his driver's permit (scca allows it). I thought it was the perfect place to let a kid experience the power in a safe environment. Worst you're gonna do is take out a cone.

Yep, I had scoped out for several years the teen car control clinics (kind of like an AutoX with instruction) in our area, and found that the BMW one was after his birthday and allowed permitted 15 year olds, while the Audi one was before his birthday and required a valid driver’s license. So we were all set to do the BMW one.

Unfortunately late-stage care and final arrangements for my wife’s father took up all of the spring, so we missed out. I’ll get him in both next year.

[kgelfen360]

Originally Posted by kjx

FWIW, here are numbers split by age group from the National Safety Council:
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-ve...age-of-driver/

And what is the National Safety Council: "The National Safety Council (NSC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, public service organization promoting health and safety in the United States. Headquartered in Itasca, Illinois, NSC is a member organization, founded in 1913 and granted a congressional charter in 1953."

Here's the exact chart you're looking for:

Thank you for providing!!!

This data is consistent with a lot of other data on that age group. Young adults 19-25 are very high risk group for bodily injury.

[Rux]

I guess it depends on the kid. I taught my daughter to drive across a variety of cars and trucks. She took her test in a pure turbo swap Q50S. I let her take out my M4 or really most of the vehicles i own when she wants. She had to learn car basics from me in order to get here.

1. Change the oil in a car beginning to end.

2. Change a tire.

3. Jump start a dead car.

4. Proficiently drive a manual.

M3/M4 is an easy car to drive, parts are common and is easy to replace.


GT3, My Rock Crusher Chevelle…prob wouldn’t allow it.

[AYounglove10]

As many people stated, progressive exposure is key.

I grew up in a family that allowed me and my sibling/cousins to have small cups of wine with them during family dinners. By the time I turned 21, alcohol was neither foreign or abused because it wasn’t taboo. It was already normalized in a safe and controlled environment, and certainly never to excess.

With cars, my uncle and grandparents would always let me drive their high end euro sedans, 60s muscle cars etc. at first with supervision, and eventually on my own. Because they trusted me, I always treated the moment with a healthy degree of respect. They also sent me to advanced driving school and Bondurant where I learned proper car control at a young age.

I don’t have kids, but I have much younger cousins and I’ve let them and their SOs (high school) drive my cars before. Also with supervision to start, and eventually to take around the block or on dates.

Cars, even powerful ones, can be driven responsibly by young people. Some might argue that have upgraded brakes and a healthy dose of power available can be an added safety feature. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve needed to emergency brake or accelerate away from other vehicles where an incident may have occurred had I not had the capability.

As mentioned, take it case by case and look at the individual person in question. Do they have a good driving record? Are they generally responsible and respectful young adults? Etc.

[forza1976]

Don’t have kids like us. Problem solved!

[Forzanerazzurri]

My kids can get a job and buy their own cars.

[sleepy floyd]

Clearly I'm in the minority, but I let my 16 year old daughter drive it even when she had her permit. A few caveats --- usually on long stretches of highway when we're cruising down the coast and of course only with me in the car. When I turn off all of the m mode "stuff", I find it (and she finds it) quite unintimidating to drive. As a comparison, she doesn't like to drive our Ford Explorer Sport (355 hp twin turbo), because it is much more "jumpy" off the line and the steering is way too light/vague. The only caveat is i have her set max speed on the cruise control as she recognizes it's very easy to inadvertently to too fast when cruising on the highway. We usually take two cars when we travel down the coast (which we do often and it's just easier to keep my teenagers apart on long drives). It's a great opp to spend quality time with my daughter and I don't worry about it in the least bit. I'm also teaching her to drive my '74 Bronco which I've converted to a 5-speed stick :-)