[leorod_rn]

Any 0-60, 1/4 mile, or 60-100 numbers?

[pegogetem]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Weak. The power figures is everything someone needs to see to realize this way of piggyback tuning is weaker and only works within an “allowable correction window” of the stock ECU map. This is why piggybacks will NEVER be as good and as complete a solution as a flash will. I wish these community vendors would spend more of their development costs on finding a States side unlock solution rather than putting out all these useless trinket boxes and passing them on as feasible products. Sorry but 👎.

:/

[Zippyy]

Man I wish I saw this 2 weeks ago. I picked up a Dahler unit. I would’ve bought this instead.

I wonder how this compares.

[G80M3Daily]

Whats the difference between the Dinan PCU and Dinantronics X? Any differences in how they integrate into the car? Thanks.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

you are getting the power either way ,its the same tune

$599 no warranty

$1999 with warranty

its a question on whether you want the extra peace of mind.

If you bought the car new and you paid $90k-$100k, then another 1-1.5% to protect your investment isn’t really that unreasonable. That 4 year 50k mile new car warranty isn’t free. You pay for it when you buy the car. So when you put the piggy back (or any other warrranty voiding product) on the car, the lost value of that coverage should really be included in the overall economic price.

If you bought it preowned, then you can obviously rerun all those numbers. If you buy a car with 6 months left on the original warranty, it’s a completely different equation.

Not saying one is right or wrong, just that the value proposition isn’t as simple as $599 vs $1,999.

[stormtrooper.g83]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

Unfortunately that price point is not practical with the factory matching warranty. Keep in mind covering labor for a dealership just to pull a car in and clear a code and nothing else is a $2-300 expenditure. Let alone actually replacing something.

I’m interested in purchasing this, but I’m wondering if I could get matching warranty if I’m in Australia?

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

All that power from a piggy back ... for $1,999 Dlls!

Really? Doesn’t people work hard to earn their money anymore?

It's $500 or so. It's $2k if you want them to warranty your engine.

Just don't buy the warranty part. Sheesh!!

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

The emissions thing is a problem that's at least 8 years away for you. Nobody is going to test it or ever know before year 8, unless you put some insane exhaust on and get sent to a referee. If you plan to do that, then you're kind of asking for it.

I hadn't bought a new ICE car since before 2020, so it's good to know that they have now pushed emissions to 8 years.

I'm still reluctant to flash something that I can't undo myself. Also 8 years might make catted DPs a thing. Hmmmm.

[shaunee]

Originally Posted by hufington

If any company could offer an insurance/warranty for a flash tune, there could be real demand even if it is expensive.

This is an option available from Evolve in the UK, but it appears this must be done on site and not remotely (they need to perform a healthcheck on the vehicle as part of the process for warranty). So it's clearly feasible for a company to offer.

https://www.evolveautomotive.co.uk/p...tion-510hp-s58

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Weak. The power figures is everything someone needs to see to realize this way of piggyback tuning is weaker and only works within an “allowable correction window” of the stock ECU map. This is why piggybacks will NEVER be as good and as complete a solution as a flash will. I wish these community vendors would spend more of their development costs on finding a States side unlock solution rather than putting out all these useless trinket boxes and passing them on as feasible products. Sorry but 👎.

I’ve run piggybacks on every BMW I’ve ever owned, and love them for the ease of install and the ability to simply knock the dust off the factory throttle feel fwiw. Have zero interest in flashing, even though I appreciate the differences.

[darkrom]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Weak. The power figures is everything someone needs to see to realize this way of piggyback tuning is weaker and only works within an “allowable correction window” of the stock ECU map. This is why piggybacks will NEVER be as good and as complete a solution as a flash will. I wish these community vendors would spend more of their development costs on finding a States side unlock solution rather than putting out all these useless trinket boxes and passing them on as feasible products. Sorry but 👎.

You are repeating all the things Dinan used to say when they were trashing the jb4 back when they could deliver flash tunes. Now that the unlock/flash is too complex, suddenly their piggybacks are the best way to tune LOL

[cubanbimmer3]

I don’t mind the price for included warranty.. cheaper than Carbahn’s warrantied option. I am curious about the warranty though. Does it need to be installed by a Dinan approved dealer/BMW shop? Can I install it myself, so all-in it’s 2K with the included warranty? It’s my understanding that the factory warranty would essentially be covered by Dinan (in the rare instance that something catastrophic were to occur), but I am really wondering if there are any additional costs to maintain the warranty.

[ledphut]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Weak. The power figures is everything someone needs to see to realize this way of piggyback tuning is weaker and only works within an “allowable correction window” of the stock ECU map. This is why piggybacks will NEVER be as good and as complete a solution as a flash will. I wish these community vendors would spend more of their development costs on finding a States side unlock solution rather than putting out all these useless trinket boxes and passing them on as feasible products. Sorry but 👎.

Calling Dinan a “community vendor” says a lot about you and the goofs who liked the post.

Their history in the BMW tuning world is illustrious. So much so that dealerships used to offer Dinan products and they were covered under BMW factory warranty.

[hova00]

Originally Posted by hufington

All these piggyback tunes should be no more than $500 as they are copy paste jobs after the first one for an engine and with this much added power, most won't even need the insurance/warranty.
If any company could offer an insurance/warranty for a flash tune, there could be real demand even if it is expensive.

Carbahn does offer a flash tune with a warranty. I had it installed on my previous G80 M3 at the local BMW dealer. Car was a certified ripper. Went from 10.9@ 124mph to 10.5@131.xxmph

[m3rxn]

Nice to see more piggyback options for G80 platform: Dinan, Racechip, JB4, Dahler...

[M4Lou]

Originally Posted by m3rxn

Nice to see more piggyback options for G80 platform: Dinan, Racechip, JB4, Dahler...

Man - I'm w/ you. Yes, I've got an M4c w/ a BM3 ethanol tune and it rips. But if you are okay w/ limitations of a piggy and understand what it provides - then they are fine. I've got piggy's on (at least) two other cars and am happy w/ them for a little bit of a bump.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by darkrom

You are repeating all the things Dinan used to say when they were trashing the jb4 back when they could deliver flash tunes. Now that the unlock/flash is too complex, suddenly their piggybacks are the best way to tune LOL

Except I won’t be changing my tune on my standpoint with piggybacks. I will literally either not buy a car or won’t tune a car if that’s the only option and that stands for both engine ECU and trans TCU controlability. With modern cars, you can’t do one without the other and it be as robust. It’s like upgrading the power in a manual car and not doing shit in terms of a stronger clutch, be it pressure plate upgrade alone or plate and disc composition as a whole.

Originally Posted by ledphut

Calling Dinan a “community vendor” says a lot about you and the goofs who liked the post.

Their history in the BMW tuning world is illustrious. So much so that dealerships used to offer Dinan products and they were covered under BMW factory warranty.

I’m well aware of who Dinan is and despite any of that, some direction and principles they’ve gone in not only for this platform but other BMW ones, I won’t always agree with. But hey, I’m one that sometimes follows my own strategies when it comes to cars and aftermarket tuning for them. We all have likes and dislikes and opinions… what I find valuable however is that we voice them in and effort to try and steer these companies to do more for us as enthusiast in the market rather than taking the path of least resistance on this platform and I feel like ever since Burger came out with this piggyback shit back in the day, for some fucked up reason, BMW people have continued to accept and praise piggybacks as a true tuning option rather than a bandaid workaround for the shortcoming of not being able to access the ECUs. To give you an example, I’d rather spend the money and development costs on going full standalone M150 Motec on a car like this than putting a piggyback on it. Yeah, that may seem absolutely stupid to someone but for me, having that level of control and expansion of capabilities and unlimited future proof potential for it while having everything else work the same way on the car would be nirvana. Of course that’s not an option right now and since flashing is available with an unlock, that’s absolute minimum need met for me anyway, so it’s all good. Also, I’m not new to modding cars, I’ve been doing it since the mid 90’s and have seen all sorts of ways to control engine dynamics and results, from piggyback fuel controllers to higher grade piggybacks with timing controls built in to factory replacement plug n play standalone to complete standalones with custom harnesses to factory ECU reflashing. I just don’t like signal modification/man in the middle approaches to engine or trans controls… that’s just my ethos when tuning, that’s all, but it does come from an informed and experienced background and not just pure opinion.

[BimmerXdrive]

So is this a Dinan competitor to German RaceChip?

Still not beating Racechip instant gains and simple install on the same platforms. Take a look below.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

I’m well aware of who Dinan is and despite any of that, some direction and principles they’ve gone in not only for this platform but other BMW ones, I won’t always agree with. But hey, I’m one that sometimes follows my own strategies when it comes to cars and aftermarket tuning for them. We all have likes and dislikes and opinions… what I find valuable however is that we voice them in and effort to try and steer these companies to do more for us as enthusiast in the market rather than taking the path of least resistance on this platform and I feel like ever since Burger came out with this piggyback shit back in the day, for some fucked up reason, BMW people have continued to accept and praise piggybacks as a true tuning option rather than a bandaid workaround for the shortcoming of not being able to access the ECUs. To give you an example, I’d rather spend the money and development costs on going full standalone M150 Motec on a car like this than putting a piggyback on it. Yeah, that may seem absolutely stupid to someone but for me, having that level of control and expansion of capabilities and unlimited future proof potential for it while having everything else work the same way on the car would be nirvana. Of course that’s not an option right now and since flashing is available with an unlock, that’s absolute minimum need met for me anyway, so it’s all good. Also, I’m not new to modding cars, I’ve been doing it since the mid 90’s and have seen all sorts of ways to control engine dynamics and results, from piggyback fuel controllers to higher grade piggybacks [...]

While idea of flashing is great and worked well before ECUs were locked, it's less than trivial to unlock an ECU.

My N54 335 was COBB tuned. I loved the fact that I could remove the tune before I went in for service with the only evidence of tampering the ECU reset.

Now with locked and encrypted ECUs that is no longer an option and even a flash tune where you send in for unlock doesn't allow you to install factory flash at will.

Is a flash better? Maybe if the R&D is done correctly and they know what they are doing.

You can design a piggyback that intercepts the signals and can modify boost targets and fueling just like a flash does. Are all piggybacks good? Of course not but a blanket statement that says a flash is better is not correct. There are too many variables to claim either is better.

If done poorly with crappy mapping a flash can grenade your engine.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

You can design a piggyback that intercepts the signals and can modify boost targets and fueling just like a flash does.

No such thing. A flash solution basically changes the actual values in the different maps on the ECU for whatever value you’re changing (fuel, timing, boost, etc.). A piggyback modifies the signal of input or output from the ECU within the correction window of the ECU maps to gain some power… go outside of those parameter windows and the ECU throws up errors or you run the dangers of running too rich or too lean or another issue. Again, the devil’s in the details in terms of what you’re modifying, but you are limited in what you can do and the (in my opinion) larger issue is, if you’re running more boost and tricking the ECU into adding fuel because you’re playing around with perceived fuel rail pressure or even depending on the base fuel enrichment maps to hit the necessary targets, now you’re at the top limit of the fuel correction map, so let’s say in much colder weather you’d need even more fuel, the ECU can’t enrich any more because you’ve used the correction buffer up. Again, a lot of this depends on how the base ECU maps handle some of these things, but you get my point. This is why it’s a squeeze on gains and reliability in my opinion. Anyway, I don’t wanna take up any more room in this thread on these details, but just remember… piggybacks are like makeup and/or clothing garments for the non-hot girl to make her look hot. Flashing the ECU with a new calibration map is like proper cosmetic surgery. It’s there at the base layer, properly done. (I know this probably sounds like a very shallow metaphor, but it may be easier to visualize or understand. Lol)

[hufington]

Originally Posted by shaunee

This is an option available from Evolve in the UK, but it appears this must be done on site and not remotely (they need to perform a healthcheck on the vehicle as part of the process for warranty). So it's clearly feasible for a company to offer.

https://www.evolveautomotive.co.uk/products/evolve-remap-with-warranty-bmw-g80-g81-m3-g82-g83-m4-competition-510hp-s58

Need this stateside.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

A piggy back is never going to replace a good flash.

The other thing here is it's legal and currently undergoing CARB compliance. Here in California, I'm not doing any tune or modification that is going to have me failing emissions testing and none of those tuners that unlock the ECU are doing anything to keep my car compliant when I need to eventually do emissions testing.

I've been down the flashing road before and at least with the flash I had before the stage 1 map was compliant when I went in for emissions testing. California now checks the revision number of the firmware and if it's not a compliant manufacturer and rev you fail.

So at least with a piggyback in stock tune the readings will be correct.

Now Dinan, get CARB compliance before my M2 shows up.

CARB compliance on a piggyback while convenient, doesn't seem like a huge selling point. If needed it's as simple as removing the piggyback for SMOG or state ref. Obviously you'd rather not have to, but you don't have to worry about a bad flash bricking your car, flash back to stock didn't get your CAL ID matching. Just unplug and probably reset your monitors if needed.


The older F generation cars have flash tunes that you can for sure flash back to stock, SMOG, then reflash. Pretty simple, but still runs some risk you have a software issue. Much simpler to unplug a piggyback and SMOG the car.