[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

Better get your Porsche order in now. My friend is a Pcar regular and he was told yesterday if he orders a new 911 now it won’t be built until next spring as a 2023 and more than likely it would be a hybrid power train.

That P dealer is just making up typical dealer BS to encourage sales. Porsche has committed to ICE through 2030.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by calbears

Like the E30 M3 Evo, Evo II (+ more)

E36 M3 LTW (CSL), E36 M3 GT

E46 M3 CSL

E92 M3 GTS, E90 M3 CRT

F80 M3 CS, F82 M4 GTS, F82 M4 CS

Yeah, I remember

Bravo

[440i6MT]

Originally Posted by calbears

Like the E30 M3 Evo, Evo II (+ more)

E36 M3 LTW (CSL), E36 M3 GT

E46 M3 CSL

E92 M3 GTS, E90 M3 CRT

F80 M3 CS, F82 M4 GTS, F82 M4 CS

Yeah, I remember

You proved my point.

[playswcars]

These are all the special Edition E30 M3's:

Evolution I (AK01, non-catalyst): 505 produced 02/1987 through 05/1987 (includes the French-market "Tour de Corse" edition)

Evolution II (AK01, non-catalyst): 501 produced from 03/1988 through 06/1988

Europa Meister 88 edition (AK05, catalyst): 148 produced from 10/1988 through 11/1988

Johnny Cecotto edition (AK05, catalyst): 480 produced from 04/1989 through 07/1989

Roberto Ravaglia edition (AK05, catalyst): 25 produced in 06/1989

Sport Evolution (AK07, catalyst): 600 produced from 12/1989 through 03/1990

So one could argue this whole thing started over 30 years ago at this point.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by playswcars

GT/H, so GT Heritage?

Good thinking 99 😎

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Because

To be fair, you could take an M4 RWD, remove the rear seats, get a remap & geo setup and you'll be 90% there.

I'm glad you let us know that

It was said about the M2 CS, and then the M5 CS, it'll be said about the M4 CSL and anything else that has any extra letters after the C

.... and yet, BMW keeps making them, and yet people keep buying them, and yet others keep dissing them

Lively merry go round, wouldn't you say?

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I'm glad you let us know that

It was said about the M2 CS, and then the M5 CS, it'll be sure about the M4 CSL and anything else that has any extra letters after the C

.... and yet, BMW keeps making them, and yet people keep buying them, and yet others keep dissing them

Lively merry go round, wouldn't you say?

Ha you beat me to this point. I think the bigger question will be, as a roadcar, will the M4 CSL be better than the M4C xDrive (which has now received 2 Evo 5 star reviews including this month, seems like an early front runner for eCotY 2022).

I think its a given that the M4 CS is going to be phenomenal as the car on which its based already is epic (since the CS in 2023 will be an xDrive).

Could the M4 CSL actually be "worse" than the M4C xdrive?

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

That P dealer is just making up typical dealer BS to encourage sales. Porsche has committed to ICE through 2030.

For some models this is correct, but not all. There is talk that the 2024 911 Turbo S mid-cycle refresh may be hybrid. Of course you can always get a 911 GTS, Carrera S, and base Carrera as an ICE.

Next generation Cayman in 2024/2025 is supposed to be electric. Which is one of the reasons the GT4 RS is a hot car to own. They are supposedly testing an EV Macan now.

All this is on the Internet. Just search for 992.2 Turbo S, Next Gen Cayman, etc.

[xlover]

If this thing is going to be hand built over only a few months, I wonder how limited are we talking …less than 50 units?

If the m3 touring has some complexities limiting production to ~1000 units over a few years I can't imagine something like this will be anything but just handful built

[fazman]

Originally Posted by calbears

Like the E30 M3 Evo, Evo II (+ more)

E36 M3 LTW (CSL), E36 M3 GT

E46 M3 CSL

E92 M3 GTS, E90 M3 CRT

F80 M3 CS, F82 M4 GTS, F82 M4 CS

Yeah, I remember

Pepperidge Farm remembers....

[adc]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

(People who want to drive this car on track) ∩ (people can buy this car) = ∅.

I’ve seen McLaren Senna driven in anger by a non-novice at good old VIR. So maybe not quite ∅?

At any track event you care to mention in the mid-Atlantic region, you can see cars ranging from worthless rusted E30 creations to $300k Porsches, McLarens and Ferraris. I don’t remember a single event where there weren’t such cars.

Will the GT-H be priced over $300-400k?

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by adc

I’ve seen McLaren Senna driven in anger by a non-novice at good old VIR. So maybe not quite ∅?

At any track event you care to mention in the mid-Atlantic region, you can see cars ranging from worthless rusted E30 creations to $300k Porsches, McLarens and Ferraris. I don’t remember a single event where there weren’t such cars.

Will the GT-H be priced over $300-400k?

It's not just the price but also the production numbers.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

It's not just the price but also the production numbers.

Is there any indication that HP/TQ will match that of the CSL but with a manual transmission?

[Downeaster1]

Originally Posted by adc

That is insane. The US is by far the largest market for manual transmissions, by number sold and also probably by percentage compared to autos.

One of the main reasons I skipped over the current generation is that the higher powered Comp versions didn’t have a manual. And now that they are making my kind of car, they won’t bring it here.

F*** off BMW.

This. I'm on my 34th BMW, and fucking work for them. They've lost me as a consumer when Domagoj Dukec started green lighting all of Seungmo Lim's stupid design revelations. They've been going down the toilet for a while, and at this point I'm happy to see it.

[adc]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Is there any indication that HP/TQ will match that of the CSL but with a manual transmission?

What possible difference could it make?

Seems like they will make 50 or 100 of them, none will come to the US, and will be basically completely unobtainable. Why do you care?

If you could by a miracle buy in in ROW and import it for show & display, the limited mileage allowed under that rule guarantees you cannot really drive it. And by the time 25 years go by so you can import it here, ICE will be an irrelevance.

It will basically be a curiosity in the BMW tree, a branch that will generate no sales, no technology spill-over (because future performance will be EV), no customer goodwill. A pointless PR exercise.


Porsche by contrast seems like they are pulling all the stops, trying to get the best ICE offerings in the hands of enthusiasts as best they can, to celebrate in style the end of the ICE era. Completely unsurprisingly, the enthusiasts the world over are responding. Bravo to them, and they should enjoy the windfall from that.

BMW seems more about what they cannot do for whatever reason. No manual, no wagon, no ultimate special, etc. But they do give us anniversary roundels.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by adc

What possible difference could it make?

Seems like they will make 50 or 100 of them, none will come to the US, and will be basically completely unobtainable. Why do you care?

If you could by a miracle buy in in ROW and import it for show & display, the limited mileage allowed under that rule guarantees you cannot really drive it. And by the time 25 years go by so you can import it here, ICE will be an irrelevance.

It will basically be a curiosity in the BMW tree, a branch that will generate no sales, no technology spill-over (because future performance will be EV), no customer goodwill. A pointless PR exercise.


Porsche by contrast seems like they are pulling all the stops, trying to get the best ICE offerings in the hands of enthusiasts as best they can, to celebrate in style the end of the ICE era. Completely unsurprisingly, the enthusiasts the world over are responding. Bravo to them, and they should enjoy the windfall from that.

BMW seems more about what they cannot do for whatever reason. No manual, no wagon, no ultimate special, etc. But they do give us anniversary roundels.

I'm just asking to help calm this thread down, where everyone seems ready to storm Frank's office in Munich with pitchforks. I'm picking up a CSL when it comes out, I can live with this car not coming here based on the rumors about both cars at the moment.

Maybe I'll be more upset after I see them both.

I get why BMW doesn't bring these cars here, cause if they don't have insane 0-60 YouTube videos, people don't buy them. The bulk of wave 1 of M5 CSs that hit these shores in August 2021 were unspoken for when they arrived. If people don't buy those on brand loyalty at $143k, why will they buy this car at an even higher price?