[Sniz]

Leftcoast, hope you dont mind, I took the liberty of graphing your dyno overtop of the magazine article showing the e92 M3 vs e46 M3 vs stock 335....it now includes a V2 335 .

I know this is not an EXACT dyno plot by any means, but I did my best w/ my limited resources...for some reason my photoshop just crapped out..

Looks like the V2 335 will jump the new M3 out of the whole hard and depending on the gearing should be able to stay out front. A highway run however would be interesting. I'm pretty sure the new M3's gearing will outrun the tuned 335 at high speeds......we'll just have to find out!!

Discuss:

edit - please keep in mind the following graph is only for discussion purposes and certainly can not be considered an accurate representation of the tuned 335 vs the other vehicles. Different dyno's, different conditions, too many variables.....

[stillclaimndp]

Originally Posted by Sniz

I'm pretty sure the new M3's gearing will outrun the tuned 335 at high speeds......we'll just have to find out!!

Discuss:

The massive 335i torque will beat out the m3 gearing... 335i gearing has been great in my experience, maybe after the top speed limiter runs out there would be an advantage m3 but we will need to get rid of that to find out!

[E90ice]

M3's gearing is quite interesting. But for everyday driving / performance I would still rather have the huge torque advantage of the 335 V2 along with the 380whp, of course.

At high speeds it will definately be interesting.

Walked U's car keep up with the M5 up to about 130-140 mph so the 335 V2 might just outrun the M3.

[Driver72]

Once up to about 4500 rpm in 1st gear, it's all about HP then.

Torque plays heavily in low to mid rpm acceleration especially when in a higher gear or lugging the engine, but once onto full throttle acceleration, it's HP you look at.

It will be VERY close between a v2.0 only PROceded 335i and a e92 M3 from a rolling run starting at anything above 60 mph and going to 150.
That is at sea level of course.
At elevations above maybe 2000 ft. and the v2.0 335i will suddenly start having more and more of an advantage.

BTW, though interesting to put leftcoast's dyno onto that one, it's two different dynos in two different places with different weather conditions.

It will be fun to take a stock e92 M3 and a v2.0 335i to the same dyno on the same day and compare though.

[roadkillrob]

Like they say - torque will get you to 60, hp will take you the rest of the way!

[jahwerx]

nice graph paper - allows me to do the old "how much under the curve" for each. looks like the M3 has more "squares" but only by a couple. I think in the real world, the low-end torque is gonna help more unless you constantly drive at the ragged edge. Should be darned close at any rate

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Driver72

BTW, though interesting to put leftcoast's dyno onto that one, it's two different dynos in two different places with different weather conditions.

It will be fun to take a stock e92 M3 and a v2.0 335i to the same dyno on the same day and compare though.

Couldn't agree more, should have put that in my original post .

This can not be taken as an accurate comparison....hell the dyno readings were taken on different continents, different machines most likely, different gas certainly, etc.

Still fun though..........I laughed when I realized just how far up I had to extend the tq graph to accommodate the massive tq of the 335.....

[LODOSS]

I think you might be throwing some people off. don't forget that their graph is in PS.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by LODOSS

I think you might be throwing some people off. don't forget that their graph is in PS.

oh man!! Your right....I did the conversion for the TQ values, but not the HP numbers......


well actually the 335 is going to graph higher now...

edit - ok its regraphed w/ hp converted to PS. thanks for catching that.

[FotiosF90M5]

kind of random seeing the article in greek. lol

[sajakh]

On the second graph, 60 should actually be 55 on the y axis to follow the pattern. This should make the area under the curve even larger for the 335i

[Dascamel]

I vote for transfering the data to a real spreadsheet

[Dr_Dirt]

Originally Posted by Dascamel

I vote for transfering the data to a real spreadsheet

+1

[L8Apex]

Originally Posted by stillclaimndp

The massive 335i torque will beat out the m3 gearing... 335i gearing has been great in my experience, maybe after the top speed limiter runs out there would be an advantage m3 but we will need to get rid of that to find out!

The torque will be great if this was race was from a dig. But the M3 will compensate for it's lower torque number with use use of lower gears 3.84. However, Gustav likes a rolling start in al of his runs. In this scenerio the M3 vs. 335 v2, I say the M3 will eek out the 335 to 150mph.

This race is sort of like comparing the e55 w211 to the e60 m5. M5 wins at the top end due to gearing and high rev hp.

[zenmaster]

Wasn't this done last month?: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82698

[stillclaimndp]

Originally Posted by L8Apex

The torque will be great if this was race was from a dig. But the M3 will compensate for it's lower torque number with use use of lower gears 3.84. However, Gustav likes a rolling start in al of his runs. In this scenerio the M3 vs. 335 v2, I say the M3 will eek out the 335 to 150mph.

This race is sort of like comparing the e55 w211 to the e60 m5. M5 wins at the top end due to gearing and high rev hp.

If he gets his v2, his 335i will make more hp, and way more torque, at every point of the powerband. The only advantages to the m3 are gearing and 8k+ rpm and the disadvantage of approx. 170 less torque has to be too significant but wait and see... The other cars will be better competition for V2 if he has it in time.

[leftcoastman]

Thief!

Just kidding. Enjoy the fruits of my labor, my children.

[m3rxn]

can't wait til they release that sucker so we could get some real world comparos/pulls rollin!

[LODOSS]

In terms of peak power the 335 will win since the M3's has a peak hp at its peak while the 335 peak is on a slope which means the 335 will have more area around the peak. this is if both car puts down the same hp at its peak.

i think the M3 will still edge due to its gearing like everyone said and most importantly its ability to put down more power with its stiffer suspension, lighter wheels and wider tires = more traction.

Added< and better tires>

[ndahbar]

Here's my analysis of sorts...

Notice how similar the E92/E46 M3 curves are, albeit the new V8 seems to develop a larger percentage of its peak torque early on. The E92 on this particular dyno run maxed its torque at 3,750, which is pretty close to the claimed 3900. The E46 maxed at 5000, again close to the claimed 4900.

Of note, the E92 max rwhp was 360.5 (365.5 ps). The E46 dumped 300.3 ps so about 295.3 rwhp. That sounds about right (~12% drivetrain loss from the 333hp flywheel hp).

Max torque at the wheels of the E92 was 266 lb-ft (36.8 / .1383 -- http://www.answers.com/topic/foot-pound?cat=health)
Max torque at wheels of E46 was 239 lb-ft.

With this knowledge, look at the graph again. The E92 M3 motor is clearly dishing out considerably more torque from 2K to 4,500. Mid-range (4.5k - 6k) the spread isn't that much, maybe ~20 lb-ft. But then the high rpm spread is pretty huge. Wow, the E92 M3 is a MONSTER of sorts at high rpm.

And yeah, obviously they eased off the gas pedal on the 335i at ~6300 rpm. No point, since a (stock) 335i falls way too much between 6,500 and 7000.

At 7000 rpm, the procede 335i (v2) is still dumping out more torque than the E92 M3. But party's over. Where as the M enjoys another 1,300 revs (8300 rpm, where peak hp is).

Oh, and the flat black curve up top? Roughly 56 kgm? That's 400+ rwtq. 'Nuff said (well, if the trannies hold up !!!). That WILL overpower the gearing advantage of the ///M

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by LODOSS

In terms of peak power the 335 will win since the M3's has a peak hp at its peak while the 335 peak is on a slope which means the 335 will have more area around the peak. this is if both car puts down the same hp at its peak.

i think the M3 will still edge due to its gearing like everyone said and most importantly its ability to put down more power with its stiffer suspension, lighter wheels and wider tires = more traction.

Added< and better tires>

Traction will only be an advantage if doing a standing start comparison. Even then I think it will not be a problem putting the 335i's power down if you use some good throttle modulation.

The dyno shows the 335i making more peak HP and way more average HP. The M3's gearing advantage will never make up for this since in every gear, and at every speed the 335i will be accelerating harder.

If you meant compared to a 335i with only V2 Procede (no downpipe, etc.) then we will have to wait and see. I think the E92 M3 and that 335i will be VERY close indeed.

[Panoz]

My best friend got his M3 delivered on Friday...a freaking car indeed.

Once I have my own V2 delivered will do some rolling starts and upload the videos. Cant wait to see what will happen.

Come on Shiv!!!!!