[windnsea00]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

One of my Sunday morning rituals is a sunrise drive in the canyons with friends, in this case, Angeles Crest, for those who are familiar.

My friend just received 9 new M cars. He is the largest Turo host in the world, and as a side benefit, I get to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

While I've had a fair amount of seat time in the current G80 M3, from the Autobahn to BMW M Driving School in Thermal to backroads here in SoCal, I had yet to experience the new M2. I have a long history of owning M cars (including my M2 CS) and was a big fan of the last gen M2 Comp and CS. I have already been impressed with the capabilities of the current M3, albeit it's not the most involved machine, and I still find that front end ugly. Also, it's a large car now and back up in weight compared to the last generation.

What I didn't expect yesterday was to walk away, preferring the M3 and rather significantly at that, especially as it was auto and the M2 was 6-spd. Angeles Crest is a high-speed drive, more like the Nurburgring instead of a very technical short course, and the stability and confidence it inspired were truly fantastic. I am a faster driver than my friend but couldn't keep up with him in the M2, at least comfortably. The M3 was extremely stable at speed, turn-in, and braking, while the M2 being shorter, tended to move around more. It felt like BMW didn't spend the time to hone in the dynamics as much as they did in the M3- which could be one of the reasons for the $15k price difference and also to maybe make it feel more "alive."

On that note, both these cars were brand new, so we didn't want to push them too hard. We did set the ideal tire pressures in them at the start; the M3 had Pirelli P Zero's, and the M2 had Yokohama Advan's with BMW's star, interestingly enough- I've never seen a Yokohama on an M car.

Emotionally, I always prefer lighter, smaller, and manual transmissions. However, objectively, the M3's size benefitted it in this type of driving and made it feel lighter because the weight was spread over a greater length. Also, the S58 pulls unrelentingly with the 8-spd ZF, just never-ending acceleration- you hardly know it's boosted. While the manual was a nice gearbox to shift, it didn't feel like it was the right choice for the S58; it would come off/on boost slightly between shifts, and the longer gears made it feel more lethargic. Also, that auto allowed me to be in the zone and focus on nailing the braking zone, hitting the apex, working the weight transfer, and powering out.

It goes against my internal beliefs, but the larger and automatic M3 was more impressive and really seems to be one of the best all-around vehicles you can buy if performance along with usability are important to you. You can commute in it, take a long road trip, fill it up with friends, take the kids to school, and lay down some serious times at the racetrack out of the box. It's really hard to be good at everything, and because of that, it's certainly not the most soulful vehicle, but objectively, it does everything exceptionally well.

[Humdizzle]

nice write up. seems similar to a comparison for the f87 comp and f80. one is more stable thanks to a longer wheelbase, the other is more lively. Both are better with automatic trans to keep them at the right rpm and in boost between shifts. (i have owned a manual f80 and dct m2c).

i would add though than like vs like. the g80 manual is lighter than the m2 manual by about 40 pounds. g80 comp with ceramics is the same weight as the manual m2.

[SwankPeRFection]

New M2 with ZF, CSL coding and a DME flash solves all your problems, except high speed stability, where it’ll need a bit better aero up front to keep the nose more planted. We’ll call the new M2 a “less refined” M4 given its size and the chassis it shares. For the cheaper price, if you don’t care about how it looks or the room or not having AWD, it’s certainly the cheaper way to get your hands on an S58 that only requires a couple of grand in software mods to wake it up from BMW’s artificial slumber.

[BroDoze]

2025 ZF8 M2 inbound! 37ft lbs more torque, 20hp more. I fully agree on the 6MT vs auto, and I’m a manual guy. The S58 begs for the ZF8. Manual is out of place on the S58 cars from a torque curve and gearing perspective. ZF8 owns it. All the power available all the time, instantly. There’s too much of a drivability/ usability spread between the two transmissions now. And of course BMW limits torque on the 6MT.
The BMW engineers have said they intentionally left more of a playful nature in the G87 chassis vs the G80s.
They fixed a lot of the nonsense of the F87 chassis, but didn’t want to numb-out the G87, specifically to give a more playful option vs the G80/82.

[PVC]

I drove the M2 at Thermal and while it's been a while and don't remember all the details, I agree with you. It didn't feel lighter or as capable as my M3.

Also, Angels Crest sounds awesome. I'll be checking it out.

[junki]

Nice writeup. I appreciate the pictures; I see pictures of modded cars way more often than stock, so it's nice to see just how good a completely stock G80 looks in that rear 3/4 view.

The takeaway of the G80 xDrive with the ZF AT being objectively better handling and most effortlessly capable vs. manual variants is just a fact. It's not possible to achieve the same confidence in driving with a manual in these cars.

It's just the engagement and emotional appeal of manual that caters to certain drivers who really care about it.

[windnsea00]

Originally Posted by junki

Nice writeup. I appreciate the pictures; I see pictures of modded cars way more often than stock, so it's nice to see just how good a completely stock G80 looks in that rear 3/4 view.

The takeaway of the G80 xDrive with the ZF AT being objectively better handling and most effortlessly capable vs. manual variants is just a fact. It's not possible to achieve the same confidence in driving with a manual in these cars.

It's just the engagement and emotional appeal of manual that caters to certain drivers who really care about it.

Thank you, this M3 was RWD btw.

[junki]

Originally Posted by windnsea00

Thank you, this M3 was RWD btw.

Cool! If it was xDrive, you could've driven it with even more confidence!

[RichardGM4]

Good write up and similar to my own recent experience of the new M2.

I had one recently as a loaner when mine went into BMW for 2 days for some warranty work (replacement carbon back on the drivers bucket seat, which had a defect in the lacquer).

Having previously owned a G82 M4 CX (and prior to that an F82 M4 Comp) and now owning a G80 M3 CS, I was really looking forward to driving the new M2, particularly as it was also a manual.

I have to say it was great fun for the two days I had it, particularly stirring a manual gear shifter for the first time in many years. The M2 really is great fun to drive and is pretty damn quick!

However, it really doesn't compare to the current G8x M3/M4 cars, lacking not only the engine characteristics (noticeably less power and torque) but also lacking the cabin refinement and comfort, and quality of suspension/damping/handling (which could be because of the shorter wheel base maybe).

While it's undoubtedly a great baby M car, which on paper doesn't seem to fall that short of the M3/M4, it really isn't as good to drive as a daily or on a spirited drive - I wouldn't want to own one TBH, if my budget didn't allow for a new M3/M4 I'd go for a second hand one over a new M2.

[ScottyRyan2019]

Waits for all of the M2 - MT fanboys to chime in. 🤪

[eanto]

my two favorite bmws 😌

[fanofbmwe46]

Shit. I justed ordered a 2025 MT M2. Trading my 2023 MT M3.

Since they upped the 2025 M2 power to 473 matching my M3, I figured the M2 would actually become a superior car.. same power but smaller and perhaps more nimble and agile… giving it a more raw feeling that I’m looking for. Also ordered the 2025 M2 with MPHAS to help give it the racey fun feeling.

[vcx]

Originally Posted by RichardGM4

Good write up and similar to my own recent experience of the new M2.

I had one recently as a loaner when mine went into BMW for 2 days for some warranty work (replacement carbon back on the drivers bucket seat, which had a defect in the lacquer).

Having previously owned a G82 M4 CX (and prior to that an F82 M4 Comp) and now owning a G80 M3 CS, I was really looking forward to driving the new M2, particularly as it was also a manual.

I have to say it was great fun for the two days I had it, particularly stirring a manual gear shifter for the first time in many years. The M2 really is great fun to drive and is pretty damn quick!

However, it really doesn't compare to the current G8x M3/M4 cars, lacking not only the engine characteristics (noticeably less power and torque) but also lacking the cabin refinement and comfort, and quality of suspension/damping/handling (which could be because of the shorter wheel base maybe).

While it's undoubtedly a great baby M car, which on paper doesn't seem to fall that short of the M3/M4, it really isn't as good to drive as a daily or on a spirited drive - I wouldn't want to own one TBH, if my budget didn't allow for a new M3/M4 I'd go for a second hand one over a new M2.

About the less agressive torque curve of the MT, wouldn't a simple tune (and maybe beefier clutch) solve that issue ?

On my much less capable b58, the tune just completely transform the experience.

I ask this because I once drove a C7 z06 corvette, in AT (10 speed torque converter), which absolutely ruined the global experience, despite the fabulous engine. Probably the ZF is much better, but I just can't imagine a sport car with a torque converter transmission (even if I have to aknoledge that in the torquey M5 CS, the transmission was not really an issue, thanks to the low-end torque of the V8)

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

Shit. I justed ordered a 2025 MT M2. Trading my 2023 MT M3.

Since they upped the 2025 M2 power to 473 matching my M3, I figured the M2 would actually become a superior car.. same power but smaller and perhaps more nimble and agile… giving it a more raw feeling that I’m looking for. Also ordered the 2025 M2 with MPHAS to help give it the racey fun feeling.

Was the M2 really ever detuned from the standard G8X? Or was it simply marketing for the sake of it? Dyno numbers show about the same on both platforms for MT cars.

On a side note every Turbo car I have ever driven falles out of boost when you shift so that's normal.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by vcx

About the less agressive torque curve of the MT, wouldn't a simple tune (and maybe beefier clutch) solve that issue ?

Yes. Both simple solutions. The tune is the only difference from the factory. Upgrade the clutch and reflash. The other weaknesses are addressed in my previous post.

[Gryph8n]

Great write-up and insight. Enjoyed hearing your opinion. I’ve really attempted to like the M2 but the boy racer styling just doesn’t fit my taste. So interesting what you said about driving drymanics and the automatic. The old E92 had such a mechanical feel to the shifter. Nowadays BMW manual shifters aren just not the same.

[IDKBRO]

Originally Posted by junki

Cool! If it was xDrive, you could've driven it with even more confidence!

This !

The G80xdrive with full traction on is next level in Angeles Crest.
I’m throwing on some cup 2’s next week and can’t wait to see how that goes.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by windnsea00

One of my Sunday morning rituals is a sunrise drive in the canyons with friends, in this case, Angeles Crest, for those who are familiar.

My friend just received 9 new M cars. He is the largest Turo host in the world, and as a side benefit, I get to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

While I've had a fair amount of seat time in the current G80 M3, from the Autobahn to BMW M Driving School in Thermal to backroads here in SoCal, I had yet to experience the new M2. I have a long history of owning M cars (including my M2 CS) and was a big fan of the last gen M2 Comp and CS. I have already been impressed with the capabilities of the current M3, albeit it's not the most involved machine, and I still find that front end ugly. Also, it's a large car now and back up in weight compared to the last generation.

What I didn't expect yesterday was to walk away, preferring the M3 and rather significantly at that, especially as it was auto and the M2 was 6-spd. Angeles Crest is a high-speed drive, more like the Nurburgring instead of a very technical short course, and the stability and confidence it inspired were truly fantastic. I am a faster driver than my friend but couldn't keep up with him in the M2, at least comfortably. The M3 was extremely stable at speed, turn-in, and braking, while the M2 being shorter, tended to move around more. It felt like BMW didn't spend the time to hone in the dynamics as much as they did in the M3- which could be one of the reasons for the $15k price difference and also to maybe make it feel more "alive."

On that note, both these cars were [...]

Now imagine the G80 practicality and performance - in a Touring

[Bimmerfun82]

Now try the 6MT M3, I liked it better than my comp x in the twisties in spite of the suboptimal gearing - an absolute blast and on rails. Lower weight really helps. So do Michelin * PS4S.

[BMWFanatic2008]

It’s a matter of personal preference. Had a base F80 and didn’t like the manual transmission. Automatic transmission would be my choice on these cars.

As for M2 vs M3, M3 is starting to look dated considering it didn’t change much with LCI since it’s introduction. M2 is newer/less expensive but not as practical. Can’t go wrong with either.

[FrozenGT]

The 2025 M2 loaded is $82K BMW updated a lot of things on the car. Pretty sure they tweak the suspension and so forth.

[dancing__narwhal]

Thanks for the write up. Last week I test drove an M3 xDrive with auto and an M2 with MT. Both 2024 models. While the M3 is an incredibly capable car I found I preferred the playfulness and engagement of the M2 and the MT. Different strokes for different folks I guess.