[CarbonFoot]

I've done a few HPDEs in the past and my interest in regularly hitting track events is building quickly. After receiving a Father's Day promo code for classes at the BMW Performance Center at Thermal, CA - I decided to take the plunge and booked a 2-day M school session.

Do any of you have first-hand experience doing something similar at this track? I'm obviously already committed, but would be interested in hearing about others experiences and whether or not you felt like it was beneficial for amateur/intermediate drivers? I've watched a few videos on YouTube and was immediately disappointed to see the slow pace of their so called "hot laps". Maybe I'm unfairly judging this based on the 2 vids I've seen.

I'm sure they group people by experience and pace, but I'm going to be really frustrated if I'm stuck in a group that doesn't allow me to grow as a driver. It would be great to hear from other attendees that have taken the course to improve their performance at other track events and not those that were just interested in a fun day at an organized event with no intention of spending more time on a track. Thanks!

[Ximian]

There is an Advanced M school - https://bmwperformancecenter.com/msc...vancedmschool/

It'll be what you make of it, but does look aimed for novices to intermediates.

[m4ml]

Originally Posted by CarbonFoot

I've done a few HPDEs in the past and my interest in regularly hitting track events is building quickly. After receiving a Father's Day promo code for classes at the BMW Performance Center at Thermal, CA - I decided to take the plunge and booked a 2-day M school session.

Do any of you have first-hand experience doing something similar at this track? I'm obviously already committed, but would be interested in hearing about others experiences and whether or not you felt like it was beneficial for amateur/intermediate drivers? I've watched a few videos on YouTube and was immediately disappointed to see the slow pace of their so called "hot laps". Maybe I'm unfairly judging this based on the 2 vids I've seen.

I'm sure they group people by experience and pace, but I'm going to be really frustrated if I'm stuck in a group that doesn't allow me to grow as a driver. It would be great to hear from other attendees that have taken the course to improve their performance at other track events and not those that were just interested in a fun day at an organized event with no intention of spending more time on a track. Thanks!

I've done both the 2-day and the 2-day advanced schools at Thermal. Are they worth it for a beginner/low intermediate? Yes! It's much better than HPDE in the sense that you'll get a chance to repeat the technical corners over and over again before doing your lead/follow laps.

For the 2-day we ran the South Palm 2 mile track. I've heard that which track you get for the 2-day isn't set in stone. For the 2-day advanced you get the combined North Palm and Desert tracks for over 3 miles of track. Which is an ABSOLUTE BLAST!

The grouping is luck of the draw. The instructors will only go as fast as the slowest member of the group. BUT you can ask to change groups. If you find yourself in a group with a student or students that you feel are holding you back, talk to the instructors and tell them that you're not happy with the pace of the group and would like to switch to a different group. I was *REALLY* fortunate both times I went and I was with more confident drivers that could push the pace.

[NYG]

I did the one in Spartanburg after years of tracking my car.

My thoughts are that it was fun experience but it's definitely aimed towards beginners. It was included default on the M4CS so I took advantage of it but would I shell out the money for it? No.

You'll get a very brief glimpse into fundamentals and if you kind of know what you're doing, you won't spend much time on each activity. The skid pad for example, they'll teach you how to recover oversteer and stabilize the car but won't really let you sustain slip angle.

On the second day, you'll do a bunch of track/autocross stuff. The autocross one was timed. That was kind of fun but short and you'll be in traffic the whole time.

Like I said, it was a fun experience to share with some buddies - we rented a house and hung out the whole weekend but a track day will cost you less and you'll learn a lot more.

[CarbonFoot]

Originally Posted by Ximian

There is an Advanced M school - https://bmwperformancecenter.com/msc...vancedmschool/

It'll be what you make of it, but does look aimed for novices to intermediates.

Thanks, they won't accept an entry into advanced M school without first having attended M school.

[CarbonFoot]

Originally Posted by m4ml

I've done both the 2-day and the 2-day advanced schools at Thermal. Are they worth it for a beginner/low intermediate? Yes! It's much better than HPDE in the sense that you'll get a chance to repeat the technical corners over and over again before doing your lead/follow laps.

For the 2-day we ran the South Palm 2 mile track. I've heard that which track you get for the 2-day isn't set in stone. For the 2-day advanced you get the combined North Palm and Desert tracks for over 3 miles of track. Which is an ABSOLUTE BLAST!

The grouping is luck of the draw. The instructors will only go as fast as the slowest member of the group. BUT you can ask to change groups. If you find yourself in a group with a student or students that you feel are holding you back, talk to the instructors and tell them that you're not happy with the pace of the group and would like to switch to a different group. I was *REALLY* fortunate both times I went and I was with more confident drivers that could push the pace.

This makes me feel a lot better about going. It's helpful to know they will only go as fast as the slowest driver in the group and that it's possible to work with the instructors to change things up. I'm crossing my fingers I get lucky and get a fast group.

[CarbonFoot]

Originally Posted by NYG

I did the one in Spartanburg after years of tracking my car.

My thoughts are that it was fun experience but it's definitely aimed towards beginners. It was included default on the M4CS so I took advantage of it but would I shell out the money for it? No.

You'll get a very brief glimpse into fundamentals and if you kind of know what you're doing, you won't spend much time on each activity. The skid pad for example, they'll teach you how to recover oversteer and stabilize the car but won't really let you sustain slip angle.

On the second day, you'll do a bunch of track/autocross stuff. The autocross one was timed. That was kind of fun but short and you'll be in traffic the whole time.

Like I said, it was a fun experience to share with some buddies - we rented a house and hung out the whole weekend but a track day will cost you less and you'll learn a lot more.

Thanks for sharing.

When I bought my M3CS it only came with a single day session and you can't apply the value to anything else unfortunately. They really hype the fact that you'll be spending time drifting on the wet skid pad, but it sounds more like an exercise on skid recovery rather than having fun and trying to see how far you can extend a drift.

I'm hoping the track time will make things worth it.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by CarbonFoot

Thanks for sharing.

When I bought my M3CS it only came with a single day session and you can't apply the value to anything else unfortunately. They really hype the fact that you'll be spending time drifting on the wet skid pad, but it sounds more like an exercise on skid recovery rather than having fun and trying to see how far you can extend a drift.

I'm hoping the track time will make things worth it.

I think you'll have fun regardless. I think Thermal is probably more fun than Spartanburg - although Clemson was nearby and there were baaaad chicks in the downtown area.

[m4ml]

Originally Posted by CarbonFoot

Thanks for sharing.

When I bought my M3CS it only came with a single day session and you can't apply the value to anything else unfortunately. They really hype the fact that you'll be spending time drifting on the wet skid pad, but it sounds more like an exercise on skid recovery rather than having fun and trying to see how far you can extend a drift.

I'm hoping the track time will make things worth it.

I was able to upgrade to the 2-day school using my 1-day school that was part of the M Driver's package. I just had to pay the difference. Why were you not able to do the same?

The 2-day definitely is more about controlling the slide than how far you can drift. The first exercise is about getting out of the slide once initiated, the second exercise is about initiating and controlling the slide through a cloverleaf style course. The chase on the skidpad *can* be about drifting, but it's more about riding that fine line between drift and traction.

[CarbonFoot]

Originally Posted by m4ml

I was able to upgrade to the 2-day school using my 1-day school that was part of the M Driver's package. I just had to pay the difference. Why were you not able to do the same?

The 2-day definitely is more about controlling the slide than how far you can drift. The first exercise is about getting out of the slide once initiated, the second exercise is about initiating and controlling the slide through a cloverleaf style course. The chase on the skidpad *can* be about drifting, but it's more about riding that fine line between drift and traction.

How long ago did you go? The person I spoke with said it couldn't be applied to another class or upgraded.

[m4ml]

Originally Posted by CarbonFoot

How long ago did you go? The person I spoke with said it couldn't be applied to another class or upgraded.

Just this past December. I called the Thermal M School number directly. They looked up my VIN to be sure I had the M Driver's Package and then we upgraded to the 2-day. It was a really easy process.

[m4ml]

Originally Posted by Stunning_Turnover649

Thank you for sharing, I didn't know about this track before. It intrigued me. Do you think it would be suitable for absolute beginners?

The 2-day M School is designed such that everything from an absolute beginner to intermediate are going to get a lot out of it.

The 2-day Advanced M School requires you to be qualified to attend. You qualify by either taking previous courses (not necessary to be BMW courses), or that you have the pedigree on the track. When you schedule the Advanced M School they'll determine your eligibility based on your training and/or experience.

[turbojg]

I finished my 2 day school 3 weeks ago in Spartangurg where I upgraded the 1 day school that came with the "drivers package" of my M4 comp X and just paid the difference in the cost ($2445.00 additional for $3995.00 total). I have to say I was impressed with the school and track. My expectations were that I would gain some track skills and experience (as all my track driving had been at the drag strips) but wouldn't become an expert. My main expectation was that I would gain a knowledge of the capability of my new M4 in a controlled and safer environment. In that regard... I would say both of those expectations were actually exceeded.

However, if a person has already had experience in this type of track driving they may not get as much from this school and the "Advanced" school may be more appropriate. But like most schools there are prerequisites and they need to be sure that drivers are capable enough to do the advanced training. A lot of people "don't know what they don't know".

Except for the circular skid pad (where the instructor was in the car) we were alone in the cars (Part of the reason for going to SC was when I scheduled my school I was told by the girl that If I went to CA I wouldn't be alone in the car but in SC I would) with the instructors communicating by 2 way radio as they were stationed around the track. I will say I was amazed how attentive they were to our mistakes and in correcting us.

The cars were very well maintained and the instructors were very knowledgable, attentive and courteous. The cars were in "like new" condition and well maintained which shocked me considering how hard they are driven.

I will agree that the circular drift pad wasn't so much about maintaining a drift as it was about recovering from skids. We were instructed to floor the gas to enter the drift which always put you out of control right from the start. I felt if I were able to modulate the throttle I would have done much better. But I also felt there "was a method to their madness". I certainly learned how to recovered from skids and donuts.

The cars were set up in full sport+ but the requirement was that DSC be on all the time except for the skid pad and wet figure 8 course. I did get my fill of maintaining a drift however in the wet figure 8 track where the turns were generally in a maintained drift. Each day we did 3 sets of, 8 lap timed runs through this course. Get on the gas too quick out of a turn and you were doing donuts.

I would say that the only limitation of the Spartanburg track is in the length of the straight aways and how much speeds you can get to. But will say that they were fast enough for this level of driving. From my understanding the longer straight aways is the reason for the advanced course being in Thermal CA.

I pushed the cars as hard as they were capable of in order to understand their limits (and since they weren't my cars) and was amazed how they stuck to the track and never felt I was out of control or lost control. I would say my expectation of the M cars was only about 10% of what they are capable of. To confirm how intense the action and G forces were I became motion sick (which I never do) during the first morning of driving and had to have my wife go out and get me Dramamine. The acceleration, braking and turns were that hard. I found out that I wasn't alone in getting motion sick and that it is very common. One individual in my group even called his doctor and got a Dramamine patch but also kept the pills on him. I highly recommended coming prepared. I did ask an instructor why, if it is that common, that they don't sell Dramamine at the school and was told it was for liability reasons. After I thought about it the directions on the Dramamine stated that driving a motor vehicle isn't recommended as it makes you drowsy.

I cannot say I ever felt that I was being limited in any way. When we were doing laps with multiple drivers on the track the instructors had bypasses and alternate turns that they guided drivers through to keep a slower driver from holding others up. Except for making one low speed drive following the instructor through a course to become familiar with it we never did a "lead / follow" where our speed was restricted. It was always "balls out"!

[m4ml]

Originally Posted by turbojg

(Part of the reason for going to SC was when I scheduled my school I was told by the girl that If I went to CA I wouldn't be alone in the car but in SC I would)

I'm not sure why they would tell you this. Both the 2-day and 2-day advanced at Thermal you're the only one in the car.

[turbojg]

Originally Posted by m4ml

I'm not sure why they would tell you this. Both the 2-day and 2-day advanced at Thermal you're the only one in the car.

I don't know. Maybe she was trying to sway me toward SC for some reason.

[fl1by]

Originally Posted by m4ml

The 2-day M School is designed such that everything from an absolute beginner to intermediate are going to get a lot out of it.

The 2-day Advanced M School requires you to be qualified to attend. You qualify by either taking previous courses (not necessary to be BMW courses), or that you have the pedigree on the track. When you schedule the Advanced M School they'll determine your eligibility based on your training and/or experience.

According to your track that you enjoy HPDEs at Thermal is a large track. Pretty amazing and a large variety or turn types. Start time is early!!!! in the morning to try to avoid the stupid hot heat. About a 20 minute drive to get there from any lodging. If your doing the advanced course and desire a Club Racing ticket then stay an additional day and many times they can add it on... Flags and some side by side practice, most likely something you have become familiar with at HPDEs.

[gunmike1]

I did the 2 day M school at Thermal after doing M track days at Sonoma. I had never done any track driving before M track days. I got the second day of M school added at a discount at M track days, as my car came with the M driver’s pack. I got a lot out of it, but more advanced people I could see might feel held back. We were getting after it though, and on the long straight at Thermal we were seeing nearly 140 MPH before braking, and there was rain coming down. So they definitely let you move fast if the 3 students in your lead/follow group can keep up. I had a great time.

Since then I did a track day at Sonoma in my M3X in the beginner group, and that seemed to suck since I was constantly held up by traffic. Last week though I did Laguna Seca in a track day put on by my dealer, and I was able to be solo for 7-20 minute sessions, and that was a real blast. I need new tires (after 8600 miles and 2 track days), and new rear pads, but I was moving pretty good on track. On my last session I borrowed a lap timer and ran a 1:41.8 on dying tires and tired brakes. The brakes were loudly pinging between sessions, even after doing a cool down before parking, so the car was getting some good exercise. I feel like the M Performance school helped to build my basic skills enough to allow me to go to a new track, solo with no lead/follow for the first time, and push the car hard.

[kolosy]

man the bots are getting good. would've had me if it wasn't for this comment in response to a shot of a camouflaged test mule: "This color is risky. Folks like me could get lost in it and forget about the road. Just kidding, but that hue is seriously creative and awesome."