[StephenWyker]

Whats the different between the two besides $2k? They don't do a great job comparing the two.

https://www.kwsuspensions.com/kw-sus...-397202eq.html

https://www.kwsuspensions.com/kw-sus...-3a7200eq.html

[M3SQRD]

Simply:

Street = V4

Track = CS V4

The V4 is a 3-way street damper whereas the CS V4 is a 3-way track damper. All V dampers are setup primarily for the street and come with a lifetime warranty. All Club Sport (CS) dampers are developed primarily for the track and do not come with a lifetime warranty (it may have a 1-2 year limited warranty). The V4 front strut has a tapered main spring that reuses the oem shock tower mount (top hat) and the rear damper uses the oem rear upper damper mount. This is done to minimize NVH compared to front camber plates. The V4 will be valved to handle softer spring rates as well as to improve ride quality. Can the V4 be used on track? Yes but it’s been designed primarily as a street damper.

The CS V4 uses front camber plates to bolt to the strut towers. I believe KW camber plates use an unsealed monoball which can add NVH. The CS V4 will be valved for higher spring rates as well as being able to handle a larger range of rates. The valving will also be more aggressive than the V4 to provide more control over pitch, roll and heave motions as well as better controlling unsprung mass motion. The CS V4 will need to be rebuilt more frequently than the V4. Also, KW doesn’t allow changes in valving on the V3 (they’ll rebuild them but won’t change damping) so there’s a possibility they won’t alter valving on the V4 whereas CS V4 valving can be adjusted to handle higher spring rates and/or the addition of aero. Can the CS V4 be used on the street? Yes but it’ll have a poor ride quality compared to the V4 and will reduce the interval between rebuilds.

EDIT: the CS V4 actually uses an inverted monotube front strut. This is a huge difference and is pulled even more from the KW motorsport dampers. I believe this is the first time KW has used a monotube damper on a BMW non-motorsport damper. Unfortunately, the nitrogen pressure in the front remote reservoir cannot be adjusted.

[StephenWyker]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Simply:

Street = V4

Track = CS V4

The V4 is a 3-way street damper whereas the CS V4 is a 3-way track damper. All V dampers are setup primarily for the street and come with a lifetime warranty. All Club Sport (CS) dampers are developed primarily for the track and do not come with a lifetime warranty (it may have a 1-2 year limited warranty). The V4 front strut has a tapered main spring that reuses the oem shock tower mount (top hat) and the rear damper uses the oem rear upper damper mount. This is done to minimize NVH compared to front camber plates. The V4 will be valved to handle softer spring rates as well as to improve ride quality. Can the V4 be used on track? Yes but it’s been designed primarily as a street damper.

The CS V4 uses front camber plates to bolt to the strut towers. I believe KW camber plates use an unsealed monoball which can add NVH. The CS V4 will be valved for higher spring rates as well as being able to handle a larger range of rates. The valving will also be more aggressive than the V4 to provide more control over pitch, roll and heave motions as well as better controlling unsprung mass motion. The CS V4 will need to be rebuilt more frequently than the V4. Also, KW doesn’t allow changes in valving on the V3 (they’ll rebuild them but won’t change damping) so there’s a possibility they won’t alter valving on the V4 whereas CS V4 valving can be adjusted to handle higher spring rates and/or the addition of aero. Can the CS V4 be used on the street? Yes but it’ll have a poor ride quality compared to the V4 and will reduce the interval between rebuilds.

Amazing. Thank you so much for the in depth explanation. You rock!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by StephenWyker

Amazing. Thank you so much for the in depth explanation. You rock!

You’re welcome

The CS V4 at ~$8900 is reasonable priced for a 3-way damper but it’s still not a kw motorsport 3-way damper. You could get a MCS 3WR setup that’s just a little bit more expensive than the CS V4 but it’s a true motorsport damper. Nitron R3 3-way damper is another motorsport-level damper with a similar price. MCS and Nitron dampers are monotube designs whereas the CS V4 dampers are a twin-tube design. There are heated debates on which type of damper is better! I’ll leave it at I’m 100% in the monotube camp and if you’re interested in the differences (advantages vs. disadvantages) between them there’s a lot of good info online.

[StephenWyker]

I mean, I really want something with EDC, but it seems like the elect-ron's aren't avail yet for the G80?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by StephenWyker

I mean, I really want something with EDC, but it seems like the elect-ron's aren't avail yet for the G80?

Ah, you want the Nitron elec-TRON R3 edc plug-n-play, not the conventional R3 dampers. From my understanding, the e-T R3 is available if you really need them now as they work thru an issue. I believe it’s a small issue but I’d wait for the updated version. I was on the development end of the Moton Clubsport dampers in 2004-2005 and, although everything was eventually resolved, it wasted about 1/2 of the track season to sort out the small things. The Nitron e-T R3 is definitely a better choice than the TracTive Track 3-Way (or their motorsport 3-way). I’d have a tough time choosing between the Nitron DCU or the oem edc plug-n-play. The DCU will give you more control over the dampers than the three edc modes. OEM edc plug-n-play is the easier system to install vs. having to run wires/accelerometers to corners of the car and find a place to mount the DCU. Additionally, you still have the option to go with conventional R3 which, IMO, can be setup to have much better ride quality on the streets than the e-T R3 (although the DCU may allow similar street setups). EDC/DCU are always trying to find the ideal damping with 6-10 msec adjustments to best control (eliminate) suspension disturbances. Choices…

[M3SQRD]

FYI, I updated my first post to add additional information regarding the cs v4 dampers.

[nizona]

I was at Manthey/ Raeder Motorsport last week for some brakes. Manthey is the Porsche racing team) They strongly recommended KWV4 CS for the biggest improvement of the M4 on the track. Regular V4 will wear out quicker with track use and it's not as much of a step up because you get the adjustable high speed compression and low speed compression + something else I'm forgetting. On the Nürburgring the track is very bumpy compared to other GP tracks so having high and low speed damping ratios is a major advantage.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by nizona

I was at Manthey/ Raeder Motorsport last week for some brakes. Manthey is the Porsche racing team) They strongly recommended KWV4 CS for the biggest improvement of the M4 on the track. Regular V4 will wear out quicker with track use and it's not as much of a step up because you get the adjustable high speed compression and low speed compression + something else I'm forgetting. On the Nürburgring the track is very bumpy compared to other GP tracks so having high and low speed damping ratios is a major advantage.

The V4 and V4 CS are both 3-way adjustable dampers with independent control of LSC, HSC and R. The V4 being a street-biased damper will have softer spring rates but it still can be used on track. Unlike the V3, the V4 comes with linear rate springs. The V4 CS is a track-biased monotube setup that can still be used on the street. One thing to note, similar to KW Competition monotube 3A and 3A EXR (one step below KW Motorsport, https://kwsuspensions.com/media/down...E_nonprint.pdf) and KW Motorsport monotube V5 Racing and V6 Racing (https://www.kwsuspensions.net/motorsport) have a harsher ride on the street than MCS 3WR dampers.

[Brickologic]

Originally Posted by StephenWyker

Amazing. Thank you so much for the in depth explanation. You rock!

KW V4 Clubsport for G80 Chassis differs more as at the F80 Chassis:


KW V4 Clubsport G80/G82:
https://blog-int.kwautomotive.net/bm...ion-coilovers/


KW V4 Clubsport and KW V4 for F80/F82:
https://blog-int.kwautomotive.net/in...in-the-bmw-m4/

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Brickologic

KW V4 Clubsport for G80 Chassis differs more as at the F80 Chassis:


KW V4 Clubsport G80/G82:
https://blog-int.kwautomotive.net/bm...ion-coilovers/


KW V4 Clubsport and KW V4 for F80/F82:
https://blog-int.kwautomotive.net/in...in-the-bmw-m4/

So the big difference is the g8x V4 CS is a monotube with an inverted strut and the f8x V4 CS is a twin-tube damper? Different spring rates are based on car weight and primary purpose.

[Brickologic]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

So the big difference is the g8x V4 CS is a monotube with an inverted strut and the f8x V4 CS is a twin-tube damper? Different spring rates are based on car weight and primary purpose.

It seems so and the shims and valvesprings in the shocks are different, because of the design of the shocks.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Brickologic

It seems so and the shims and valvesprings in the shocks are different, because of the design of the shocks.

Not surprised by the shims and valve springs differences. It is interesting that they use an inverted monotube on the g8x V4 CS and a twin-tube on the f8x V4 CS. It seems KW is sending mix signals. G8x top non-Competition, non-Motorsport V4 CS dampers use their Competition and Motorsport monotube technology but the f8x V4 CS uses an inferior twin-tube street-biased technology for the f8x instead of its highest performing non-Competition, non-Motorsport monotube technology. There are far more f8x track-only builds than the g8x yet they still use twin-tube dampers for the f8x highest performing CS dampers but charge a similar price to the g8x highest performing CS monotube dampers. There are other high-end damper manufacturers offering 3-way monotube dampers for similar price points to the f8x CS twin-tube dampers.