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      05-18-2023, 10:19 AM   #1
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M4 CSL v GT3 RS vs Z06 -- by Jason Cammisa of Hagerty

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Feast your eyes on this from our friendly Hagerty, Jason Cammisa

By far, the most exciting and entertaining review in my book

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      05-18-2023, 10:53 AM   #2
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that was a fun watch. hagerty is killing it.

cant believe the ct5v blackwing is faster than the csl wth
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      05-18-2023, 11:07 AM   #3
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I enjoyed that production. I would also like to see what the CSL would have done with the same tires. I don't think it would have made up the 4 seconds...but for a street car and 100K cheaper than the RS3, its a great time to be a car geek!
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      05-18-2023, 11:30 AM   #4
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Very well done segmenting out the course features and performance differences on a track which I've logged hundreds of laps on with all tires types. The reference to the ambient temp (which I guess was about 45F) felt deliberate in an attempt to excuse the street tires on the CSL. It has little effect after a warm up lap. I am actually surprised the difference wasn't larger. No doubt in my mind that the CSL on R-comps would've slotted in at 7th a few tenths off the Huracan or 2.5 - 3s faster.
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      05-18-2023, 12:19 PM   #5
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great video...outcome is to be expected. The BMW motor is a monster.
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      05-18-2023, 12:37 PM   #6
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For their respective price categories, all 3 are amazing technological achievements in 2023.

And for the M4 CSL to even be mentioned with purpose-built, track-focused sports cars, color me highly impressed.

Plus, the RWD M4 beat the AWD M5 CSL, on street tires. Wow!


Last edited by KevinGS; 05-18-2023 at 02:45 PM..
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      05-18-2023, 01:49 PM   #7
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I do like the production and breakdown of the video ...

Id give whatever nuts I have left for any of these cars!!!
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      05-18-2023, 01:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1209582 View Post

cant believe the ct5v blackwing is faster than the csl wth
More impressive is the Plaid, faster than both...
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      05-18-2023, 01:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1209582 View Post
that was a fun watch. hagerty is killing it.

cant believe the ct5v blackwing is faster than the csl wth
Track conditions have a lot to do with it. They mentioned these 3 cars were run in freezing temps. I'm sure in normalized track conditions the CSL would easily surpass the CT5V BW.
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      05-18-2023, 02:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
More impressive is the Plaid, faster than both...
This is a high speed track with some massive straights. So it favors high powered cars. That's one of the reasons the Z06 was able to keep up with the GT3rs. What it lost in the corners, it made up for in the straights. Similarly the plaid is a monster in straight line speed, so it's able to overcome its subpar brakes.
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      05-18-2023, 02:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
More impressive is the Plaid, faster than both...
Indeed

Soon we'll have semi-affordable sports cars with Plaid power, less weight, better brakes, and lower placement of the batteries for better COG...imagine how fast they will be around a track??? Available soon by Porsche and Chevrolet at a dealer near you.

The only thing missing will be the sound, but you know manufacturers (and audio engineers) are working on that.

If you love speed and performance, the future is bright for car enthusiasts (and hec, the future is now, people are already placing orders). We got over not having a V8 or V12 soundtrack when many manufacturers went to turbos, we adjusted. My hunch is we'll adjust again. And they'll probably find a way to pump your favorite V8, V12, or turbo V6 soundtrack right into the cabin, right behind your head. It will be a new form of ASD that many will complain about (but some will enjoy it).
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      05-18-2023, 02:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGS View Post
And they'll probably find a way to pump your favorite V8, V12, or turbo V6 soundtrack right into the cabin, right behind your head. It will be a new form of ASD that many will complain about (but some will enjoy it).
high chance it will cost $ to unlock different engine sounds.
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      05-18-2023, 03:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit_Apex View Post
an attempt to excuse the street tires on the CSL.
It’s not their fault btw. Everyone is carrying way fewer sizes in the PSC2 (both the R and the 240tw).

Even the Michelin website has delisted many sizes (including what I just wore out on my car). Tirerack says Michelin hasn’t official discontinued these sizes but is not listing them as backorder either. For now, those sizes just don’t exist anymore

What’s worse is that tirerack currently doesn’t list any R compounds from Toyo, Nitto, Michelin or pirelli in my size. Again, not just “out of stock” but “those don’t exist”.

Saw an article recently about the toxins released by tires and an anticipation of new eco regulations and wonder what’s gonna happen to trackdays and autocrosses.

Could be unrelated. Maybe the demand for smallish race tires is low these days but either way the future could be grim. In the meantime I’m going have to buy new wheels to run larger tires than the performance tire package wheels I’ve been running.
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      05-18-2023, 03:03 PM   #14
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Lmao don't mention Jason Cammisa on the G87 subforum.
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      05-18-2023, 03:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavyyyy View Post
Lmao don't mention Jason Cammisa on the G87 subforum.
why?
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      05-18-2023, 03:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1209582 View Post
why?
https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2016620
Here's some entertainment for you
He even responded himself in the thread but it keeps further devolving. I've muted it for now.
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      05-18-2023, 03:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1209582 View Post
high chance it will cost $ to unlock different engine sounds.
Of course. Capitalism at its finest.
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      05-18-2023, 03:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavyyyy View Post
https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2016620
Here's some entertainment for you
He even responded himself in the thread but it keeps further devolving. I've muted it for now.
haha do you remember what his name is? loved to see what he said.
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      05-18-2023, 03:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGS View Post
haha do you remember what his name is? loved to see what he said.
Post #55
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      05-18-2023, 03:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGS View Post
We got over not having a V8 or V12 soundtrack when many manufacturers went to turbos, we adjusted. My hunch is we'll adjust again.
To be fair, we adjusted because we had no choice.
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      05-18-2023, 03:45 PM   #21
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CSL continues to disappoint, not that you’d expect it to do any better against these 2, but the fact that it’s slower than the Blackwing is a testament that it’s all show (and an extremely ugly one at that) and no go. Paying $150K for that? No thanks.

When he said they were within a foot of each other I thought no way…then realized it was at turn 1, lol.
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      05-18-2023, 04:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2008M36MT View Post
CSL continues to disappoint, not that you’d expect it to do any better against these 2, but the fact that it’s slower than the Blackwing is a testament that it’s all show (and an extremely ugly one at that) and no go. Paying $150K for that? No thanks.

When he said they were within a foot of each other I thought no way…then realized it was at turn 1, lol.
Except that it's not slower than the Blackwing.... You must have missed where they mentioned that these cars were run in "freezing temps" which undoubtedly would have a big impact on traction. The fact that the Blackwing and CSL are virtually even while the CSL was run in freezing temps shows just how much quicker the CSL is if the track conditions were more similar.
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