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      10-17-2022, 05:45 PM   #1
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Exclamation BMW M4 CSL Makes Nearly 600 HP on a Dyno!

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https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...w-m4-csl-dyno/



Just as the sun rises and sets, BMW publishes conservative horsepower and torque figures. The German owner of a new M4 CSL put their car on the dyno and got an astonishing result—596 hp and 531 lb-ft of torque. BMW, for reference, advertises the M4 CSL at 543 hp and 479 lb-ft.

It's better for automakers to under, rather than overrate horsepower to avoid false advertising, but we can't help but wonder how BMW arrives at its power and torque figures. Is its dyno on the top of the mountain? Do engineers turn the heat to 120 degrees? Does whoever is responsible for publishing final figures just subtract 10 percent? Who knows. What we do know is that it is routine for BMWs to make far more power than advertised. Dyno tests from last year on the standard 473-hp M3 suggested that the car probably makes more like 547 hp at the crankshaft, so it's no surprise the CSL—which ups the boost pressure on the M4's straight-six to over 30 psi—makes damn near 600 hp.
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      10-17-2022, 06:38 PM   #2
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So this means the comp makes like 575?
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      10-17-2022, 06:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
So this means the comp makes like 575?
I always held, it makes like 550 crank give or take.
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      10-17-2022, 07:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
So this means the comp makes like 575?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I always held, it makes like 550 crank give or take.
The comp's biggest advantage over the base is in the midrange (3-6k rpm), due to higher boost. See here for a direct dyno comparison. After 6000 rpm, there isn't much difference, and the peak HP numbers are therefore not that different.

Notwithstanding what BMW claims.
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      10-17-2022, 08:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I always held, it makes like 550 crank give or take.
Just going off the quote in the article that had them think the base was 547 at the crank.
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      10-18-2022, 11:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
Just going off the quote in the article that had them think the base was 547 at the crank.
That doesnt suprise me. I think the tq numbers are really where the big difference is between base and comp engine. Power is probably almost the same despite the rating.
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      10-18-2022, 11:49 AM   #7
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It's only anecdotal but from driving an M3, M5, M4, M4 CSL, etc.. the CSL delivers a lot more power than advertised...
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      10-18-2022, 12:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
Just going off the quote in the article that had them think the base was 547 at the crank.
Which is around where an M4 comp made on a dyno while being rated at only 503.
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      10-18-2022, 02:44 PM   #9
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      10-18-2022, 03:00 PM   #10
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      10-18-2022, 03:01 PM   #11
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600 to the crank. Everywhere except the US, dynos in crank, even with the car on the dyno. I guess they like the higher number.
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      10-18-2022, 03:07 PM   #12
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      10-18-2022, 03:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
So this means the comp makes like 575?
I dynod mine stock earlier this year, 496 to the wheel
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      10-18-2022, 03:27 PM   #14
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      10-18-2022, 03:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limegrntaln View Post
600 to the crank. Everywhere except the US, dynos in crank, even with the car on the dyno. I guess they like the higher number.
Yeah, I take that with a grain of salt since there are still a handful of variables between HP at the crank and the wheel.
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      10-18-2022, 03:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usef_Afande View Post
I dynod mine stock earlier this year, 496 to the wheel
Add 15% drivetrain loss and you're right at 575
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      10-18-2022, 03:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limegrntaln View Post
600 to the crank. Everywhere except the US, dynos in crank, even with the car on the dyno. I guess they like the higher number.
It's not a country thing. Manufacturers measure output at the engine flywheel (and then modify it for marketing purposes). Everyone else -- YouTubers, backyard wrenchers, and ECU tuners alike -- use chassis dynos that measure torque (and then derive HP) at the drive wheels, and then apply some formula for estimating the total power at the crankshaft. (Typically, accounting for a 10-15% drivetrain loss.)

Unless you see someone pulling an engine out and strapping it to an engine dyno ... then it's a chassis dyno.
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      10-18-2022, 04:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWriter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limegrntaln View Post
600 to the crank. Everywhere except the US, dynos in crank, even with the car on the dyno. I guess they like the higher number.
It's not a country thing. Manufacturers measure output at the engine flywheel (and then modify it for marketing purposes). Everyone else -- YouTubers, backyard wrenchers, and ECU tuners alike -- use chassis dynos that measure torque (and then derive HP) at the drive wheels, and then apply some formula for estimating the total power at the crankshaft. (Typically, accounting for a 10-15% drivetrain loss.)

Unless you see someone pulling an engine out and strapping it to an engine dyno ... then it's a chassis dyno.
That should be how it is, but why is this advertised like the car is making almost 600hp when the motor is? I get it. But they show the car on a dyno, like people are thinking it makes 60 more hp than BMW says.
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      10-18-2022, 04:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limegrntaln View Post
That should be how it is, but why is this advertised like the car is making almost 600hp when the motor is?
Because those displays are already factoring in that drivetrain loss figure and extrapolating power at the crank. This is pretty common with dyno graphs (although I assume there's some variability among them in how they make these calculations).
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      10-18-2022, 04:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWriter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limegrntaln View Post
That should be how it is, but why is this advertised like the car is making almost 600hp when the motor is?
Because those displays are already factoring in that drivetrain loss figure and extrapolating power at the crank. This is pretty common with dyno graphs (although I assume there's some variability among them in how they make these calculations).
Everytime I've been on a dyno, hundreds of times, I just want what's to the wheels. 600 to the wheels would be impressive.
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      10-18-2022, 04:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limegrntaln View Post
Everytime I've been on a dyno, hundreds of times, I just want what's to the wheels. 600 to the wheels would be impressive.
I agree, whp or nothing for me. And of course a stock baseline on the same dyno under similar conditions.
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      10-18-2022, 08:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usef_Afande View Post
I dynod mine stock earlier this year, 496 to the wheel
Add 15% drivetrain loss and you're right at 575
That's more like 584 crank if you figure 15% loss.
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