[Dr.Deep]

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Again, only german, but worth to see

[Limegrntaln]

Just click on the english subtitles.

[Hit_Apex]

Does anyone have a diagram of the CSL damper / spring assemblies? I would think the springs are much shorter than the standard M4 to accommodate the tender springs thus ruling out existing 'lowering' springs such as H&R. Ideally, they are a standard dimension and rate such that an off-the-shelf Eibach could be used to lower - but I don't think that is the case. It may be a challenge to get a manufacturer to create lowering springs for the CSL given the low numbers. Not sure what JP is up to with KW, I'm assuming a full C/O kit?

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Does anyone have a diagram of the CSL damper / spring assemblies? I would think the springs are much shorter than the standard M4 to accommodate the tender springs thus ruling out existing 'lowering' springs such as H&R. Ideally, they are a standard dimension and rate such that an off-the-shelf Eibach could be used to lower - but I don't think that is the case. It may be a challenge to get a manufacturer to create lowering springs for the CSL given the low numbers. Not sure what JP is up to with KW, I'm assuming a full C/O kit?

Yes full C/O kit 4 Way adjustable

[IND-Distribution]

KW's R&D is always impressive.

[FrozenGT]

Here's my take on this why would you purchase $140,000 car that Bmw spent who knows how many hours road testing this car to get the suspension dialed in perfectly. Do you think that KW is going to do a better job by throwing the car on a machine and building some lowering springs. I'm sorry guys but if you think that throwing lowering springs on your car is gonna make your car handle better you are not very smart my friend. I don't know why people seem to think after market is always better it's not you're paying for the fact that they brainwash you into thinking you need to lower your car to make it look good. The new Porsche GT3 RS you have to be an absolute crazy person to mess with the suspension on that car Porsche already has lowered it from the factory and it has in car adjustability…. Stop buying M CARS putting lowering springs on them and ruining the suspension and then trade in the car again with jacked up suspension system..

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

Here's my take on this why would you purchase $140,000 car that Bmw spent who knows how many hours road testing this car to get the suspension dialed in perfectly. Do you think that KW is going to do a better job by throwing the car on a machine and building some lowering springs. I'm sorry guys but if you think that throwing lowering springs on your car is gonna make your car handle better you are not very smart my friend. I don't know why people seem to think after market is always better it's not you're paying for the fact that they brainwash you into thinking you need to lower your car to make it look good. The new Porsche GT3 RS you have to be an absolute crazy person to mess with the suspension on that car Porsche already has lowered it from the factory and it has in car adjustability…. Stop buying M CARS putting lowering springs on them and ruining the suspension and then trade in the car again with jacked up suspension system..

…and even still, Porsche owners change out the OEM suspension in favor of an aftermarket alternative or simply add lowering springs/height adjustable spring kits. It's not always about outright performance; sometimes it's about aesthetics. Also, OEM suspensions are a compromise. There are aftermarket solutions that ARE better. Nobody needs a lecture.

[FrozenGT]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

…and even still, Porsche owners change out suspension and some add only lowering springs. It's not always about outright performance; sometimes it's about aesthetics. Also, OEM suspensions are a compromise. There are aftermarket solutions that ARE better.

How to politely disagree not when you are purchasing a car at this price point and level.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

How to politely disagree not when you are purchasing a car at this price point and level.

That's your prerogative, but you are wrong. The OEM offerings are not always the BEST for performance. They are a compromise for street/light track use…..or in some cases, heavy track use. KW, among other companies like Bilstein build the OEM suspensions, but they still have products that provide even better results.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's your prerogative, but you are wrong. The OEM offerings are not always the BEST for performance. They are a compromise for street/light track use…..or in some cases, heavy track use. KW, among other companies like Bilstein build the OEM suspensions, but they still have products that provide even better results.

In the end, EVERY decision is a compromise of some sort. Be it for cost, performance or appearance (guess which two are most important for an OEM). I get both sides of the argument, but you can't really generalize either side because they're both correct. The question is what was the design brief for the OEM and does it sufficiently meet your needs? If not, what do you value more?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Cos270

In the end, EVERY decision is a compromise of some sort. Be it for cost, performance or appearance (guess which two are most important for an OEM). I get both sides of the argument, but you can't really generalize either side because they're both correct. The question is what was the design brief for the OEM and does it sufficiently meet your needs? If not, what do you value more?

OEM's have to factor in warranty, repair costs, performance [for the price point], PROFIT, etc. That goes for any manufacturer selling any kind of product. Just because a company brings a product like a CSL to the market doesn't mean the product is impossible to be improved upon. Suggesting that an OEM suspension, for example, is the absolute best product is short-sighted at best. Not everybody modifies for additional performance either, and for those who aren't seeking that, they don't need a lecture about what they should or shouldn't do to their cars.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

OEM's have to factor in warranty, repair costs, performance [for the price point], PROFIT, etc. That goes for any manufacturer selling any kind of product. Just because a company brings a product like a CSL to the market doesn't mean the product is impossible to be improved upon. Suggesting that an OEM suspension, for example, is the absolute best product is short-sighted at best. Not everybody modifies for additional performance either, and for those who aren't seeking that, they don't need a lecture about what they should or shouldn't do to their cars.

[IMG]https://pics.me.me/n-1-point-you-22004552.png[/IMG]

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by IND-Distribution

KW's R&D is always impressive.

I agree. I've always been impressed by them. I really like Ohlins' and Bilsteins R&D process as well. Even comparing the OEM Ohlins to the aftermarket Ohlins, for example, shows some pretty significant differences between them.

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Does anyone have a diagram of the CSL damper / spring assemblies? I would think the springs are much shorter than the standard M4 to accommodate the tender springs thus ruling out existing 'lowering' springs such as H&R. Ideally, they are a standard dimension and rate such that an off-the-shelf Eibach could be used to lower - but I don't think that is the case. It may be a challenge to get a manufacturer to create lowering springs for the CSL given the low numbers. Not sure what JP is up to with KW, I'm assuming a full C/O kit?

He is putting a completely new V5 full suspension, which is basically the one that is in the GT4 car, just a bit less radical and also for street use…he has a very special relationship with KW and many German manufacturers. They used his car for the development of this suspension…

And to answer your question about if the ones from the M4 can be used…very unlikely, as JP asked the guy if you could put the V5 just like that on an normal M4 and the guy said no, damping rates are different and would need sone adjustments before.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Dr.Deep

He is putting a completely new V5 full suspension, which is basically the one that is in the GT4 car, just a bit less radical and also for street use…he has a very special relationship with KW and many German manufacturers. They used his car for the development of this suspension…

And to answer your question about if the ones from the M4 can be used…very unlikely, as JP asked the guy if you could put the V5 just like that on an normal M4 and the guy said no, damping rates are different and would need sone adjustments before.

+1

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

Do you think that KW is going to do a better job by throwing the car on a machine and building some lowering springs.

M Motorsports seems to think so...
https://blog-int.kwautomotive.net/br...on-technology/

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

Here's my take on this why would you purchase $140,000 car that Bmw spent who knows how many hours road testing this car to get the suspension dialed in perfectly. Do you think that KW is going to do a better job by throwing the car on a machine and building some lowering springs. I'm sorry guys but if you think that throwing lowering springs on your car is gonna make your car handle better you are not very smart my friend. I don't know why people seem to think after market is always better it's not you're paying for the fact that they brainwash you into thinking you need to lower your car to make it look good. The new Porsche GT3 RS you have to be an absolute crazy person to mess with the suspension on that car Porsche already has lowered it from the factory and it has in car adjustability…. Stop buying M CARS putting lowering springs on them and ruining the suspension and then trade in the car again with jacked up suspension system..

You either didn't watch the video or don't know much about KW…

This is an F1 testing machine. He is not putting some lowering springs on it, but basically a GT4 car suspension optimized for track use. They btw are building the suspension for the GT4 for BMW and work very closely with BMW overall. The test machine that KW has its borrowed by manufacturers for testing…so they know very well what they do…they are building specialized suspensions for some decades now, and only that. You overweight the M and car manufacturers…they build a new car in about 4 years in everything that is involved in building a car and do it great. KW spends a year in building a suspension for a car to optimse for specific applications…
And car manufacturers often do not build suspensions themself, they let them build for their cars, and guess who makes them? Why should they, if there are companies specialized in all those topics.

And, he wants to make the car even quicker on his personal racetrack…he did a timed lap stock and will do another one when suspension is done, so soon you gonna see if its quicker or not. That is the cool thing with JP, he tests his mods with all cars to see if there is improvement or not

And he owns and owned some more expensive cars than this, McLarens, GT3, GT3RS just ordered, and all get mods, some more, some less. That's what his business and channel is for

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

…and even still, Porsche owners change out the OEM suspension in favor of an aftermarket alternative or simply add lowering springs/height adjustable spring kits. It's not always about outright performance; sometimes it's about aesthetics. Also, OEM suspensions are a compromise. There are aftermarket solutions that ARE better. Nobody needs a lecture.

In my opinion, the OEMs are indeed a compromise. But, they are the best compromise for the car in order to use it as intended. I understand heavy mods for track. I never undertand mods for lowering. If LOOKS is what one is after, in my opinion, any lowered vehicle that afects visually the wheel fender gap, looks like shit!

Beside the fact that you can’t properly wash the car and the wheel well. (OCD guy in here).

Otherwise, yeah, some off market probably have a better life span due to exterior treatment and fit and finish of the parts in comparison with a more dull-like oEM. If the factory will offer that, I will upgrade, otherwise NOBODY touches my car.
I get the point if visually stays the same and improves overall; is just I hate people working on my cars.

The less it sees the shop, the better.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Dr.Deep

You either didn't watch the video or don't know much about KW…

This is an F1 testing machine. He is not putting some lowering springs on it, but basically a GT4 car suspension optimized for track use. They btw are building the suspension for the GT4 for BMW and work very closely with BMW overall. The test machine that KW has its borrowed by manufacturers for testing…so they know very well what they do…they are building specialized suspension for some decades know, and only that. You overweight the M and car manufacturers…they build a new car in about 4 years in everything that is involved in building a car and do it great. KW spends a year in building a suspension for a car to optimse for specific applications…

And, he wants to make the car even quicker on his personal racetrack…he did a timed lap stock and will do another one when suspension is done, so soon you gonna see if it quicker or not. That is the cool thing with JP, he tested his mods with all cars to see if there is improvement or not

And he owns and oened sone more expensive cars than this, McLarens, GT3, GT3RS just ordered, and all get mods, some more, sone less. That's what his business and channel is for

Thanks for putting that to bed.

[G30M]

Looks like we need some lap times...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by G99M5

Looks like we need some lap times...

It seems as though we'll get those from JP eventually.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

Here's my take on this why would you purchase $140,000 car that Bmw spent who knows how many hours road testing this car to get the suspension dialed in perfectly. Do you think that KW is going to do a better job by throwing the car on a machine and building some lowering springs. I'm sorry guys but if you think that throwing lowering springs on your car is gonna make your car handle better you are not very smart my friend. I don't know why people seem to think after market is always better it's not you're paying for the fact that they brainwash you into thinking you need to lower your car to make it look good. The new Porsche GT3 RS you have to be an absolute crazy person to mess with the suspension on that car Porsche already has lowered it from the factory and it has in car adjustability…. Stop buying M CARS putting lowering springs on them and ruining the suspension and then trade in the car again with jacked up suspension system..

Look at the dampers BMW uses on the CS cars. They are cheap. You can easily do better although it takes a lot of work to sort it out. No BMW has ever come with dampers like a GT3 RS except the M4 GTS. If the CSL dampers are like CS, they are just a variation on the standard Sachs dampers.

I agree that for street use you are unlikely to do better, in terms of comfort especially. I think it should be easy to beat them for track performance though.