[DocWeatherington]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

[Purekoryo]

Notice he said M5CS is still a better car as an overall package.

I now have very high expectations of the M3CS.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Purekoryo

Notice he said M5CS is still a better car as an overall package.

I now have very high expectations of the M3CS.

The CS's find that happy place with fewer daily compromises

[Purekoryo]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

The CS's find that happy place with fewer daily compromises

Ironically it's the 'GTS' in the BMW world.

[CC3586]

Another great informative review from him.

[MadBimmeRad]

I didn't expect anything different from him

[woosahh]

Want one so bad...

[Jimjamz]

I love the care that's gone into designing this car but I can't help think they've taken a very long two door coupe, removed two seats and left you with a lot of workaround design (not to mention wasted cabin space at the back) to compensate for some flawed underlying design parameters. A M2 CSL or even a M3 CSL would have been such a more obvious application of the CSL brief. That said, if money isn't an objection, why not in a world with a XM.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I love the care that's gone into designing this car but I can't help think they've taken a very long two door coupe, removed two seats and left you with a lot of workaround design (not to mention wasted cabin space at the back) to compensate for some flawed underlying design parameters. A M2 CSL or even a M3 CSL would have been such a more obvious application of the CSL brief. That said, if money isn't an objection, why not in a world with a XM.

I'm been refraining from posting since some of the reviews, but needless to say I'm disappointed. I feel some of the criticism is valid, but I'll wait for the full EVO review to determine if I'm pulling my deposit and getting something different.

I trust Jethro's reviews most so whatever he says will go a long way in how I view a car. Flipping cars has no interest for me.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I love the care that's gone into designing this car but I can't help think they've taken a very long two door coupe, removed two seats and left you with a lot of workaround design (not to mention wasted cabin space at the back) to compensate for some flawed underlying design parameters. A M2 CSL or even a M3 CSL would have been such a more obvious application of the CSL brief. That said, if money isn't an objection, why not in a world with a XM.

Jimjamz

I tend to agree with you to a large degree.

There is no hard and fast rule that a CSL badge should be affixed to a M2/3/4/5/..... As such, they could have chosen any platform really.

Having a F87 M2CS, I can understand your reasoning; the car is simply magical.

Given they did an extremely limited edition G82-based Homage CSL (50 hand-built specimen only), it would have made even more sense to get a 2 or 3 series for the CSL. However, in looking through the crystal ball from BMW's perspective, I see a few problems.

The first problem I see is that the Delta in vehicle mass between the 2, 3, and 4 series is very little. So no matter which way BMW went, the hardcore boyracers would trash-talk the car no matter which platform was used.

The other problem is that the M2 has yet to be released and we know what the result has been with the leaked photos, aesthetically at least. Therefore, it may have been too big a risk to go the 2er way. Also, how much more could they ask for than what people paid for the F87 M2CS? would people pay $120k for a zooped-up 2er?

Third problem, a CS was already planned for the M3 and doing a CSL would seem too much of the same thing - the CS is likely to include the X-Drive so how many people would favour an AWD rocket with 4 doors as opposed to a 2WD version? I'd say the majority.

Given BMW was already planning on developing the Homage based on the M4, it made sense to develop the Homage and the CSL concurrently though slightly divergently in the final packaging.

All of this is just my personal observation but I'm open to discussion. For me, it doesn't matter because I'm neck deep in for a M4CSL and all the positive or negative press about the car isn't going to make a difference.

Personally, I wish the 50th anniversary would have happened at the end of the F-generation and we could have had a F87 M2CSL instead of the CS - that would have been the perfect outcome in a perfect world - though I admit, we do not live in a perfect world.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

I'm been refraining from posting since some of the reviews, but needless to say I'm disappointed. I feel some of the criticism is valid, but I'll wait for the full EVO review to determine if I'm pulling my deposit and getting something different.

I trust Jethro's reviews most so whatever he says will go a long way in how I view a car. Flipping cars has no interest for me.

I know what you mean, Scully. I'm disappointed with some of the reviews too! But I don't allow reviews to influence me too much because some of the things even EVO come out with are also said to help win more views / get more subscribers.

For example, do we really believe that the M5 CS (which I know is magnificent) is better to drive than a 992 GT3? I certainly don't - that's one that I'd have to test for myself. My view? They were stung by the criticism that Porsche always wins and found that they did have some concerns about the 992 GT3, so could credibly say that it's not worthy of COTY - but more recent reviews are far more telling. The M5 CS on the other hand was a surprise on the upside.

Time will tell but the E46 M3 CSL got poor reviews, back then the M3 CS was deemed the pick of the range. Now? E46 CSL has cult status - it's universally loved! E46 M3 CS is barely ever mentioned.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

I know what you mean, Scully. I'm disappointed with some of the reviews too! But I don't allow reviews to influence me too much because some of the things even EVO come out with are also said to help win more views / get more subscribers.

For example, do we really believe that the M5 CS (which I know is magnificent) is better to drive than a 992 GT3? I certainly don't - that's one that I'd have to test for myself. My view? They were stung by the criticism that Porsche always wins and found that they did have some concerns about the 992 GT3, so could credibly say that it's not worthy of COTY - but more recent reviews are far more telling. The M5 CS on the other hand was a surprise on the upside.

Time will tell but the E46 M3 CSL got poor reviews, back then the M3 CS was deemed the pick of the range. Now? E46 CSL has cult status - it's universally loved! E46 M3 CS is barely ever mentioned.

EVO car of the year wins for the M2 CS and M5 CS was saying those were the best cars of their year. I think the M2 CS won sort of by backing its way in. Every voter had the car in their top 2 I think, and it edged the 765LT by 0.1. The M5 CS test was on road only and it pretty handily won, because it was such a leap on from an M5. It was EVO saying it was a better car to drive on street than a GT3 touring.

I do think with the M2 CS for example, people always go "well it's just an M2C with some enhancements." But the reason it did win, is it's the best modern front engine RWD car. That's a layout of car that is much more driver focused than mid-engine supercar. It's a better drivers car full stop than an e46 CSL (which also had back seats).

Flash forward to the new CSL, and it's not more of a track style car then the M4 GTS (which multiple people voted for it as CoTY over a 911R) but it's also not a better road only tool than the M2 CS or M5 CS. And then it's hampered by difficulty in removing weight relative to its base car and it's engine (which is now overly boosted rather than progressively remapped like M engines in CS/CSL cars before).

People keep saying if you wanted to CSL car, it should have been an M2. But the M2 CS is almost nearly as light as it possibly can be without GTS-ing it. The e46 csl had back seats, but also had many weight savings measures that went into future base M cars.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Purekoryo

Notice he said M5CS is still a better car as an overall package.

I now have very high expectations of the M3CS.

I actually don't think the M3 CS will be than much better than an M3 xdrive is now, or much better than this CSL.

No one is complaining that the CSL rides poorly or doesn't hit the sweet spot. They are complaining that it either isn't loud enough to be a CSL, or the steering changes aren't big enough relative to the base car. Also a lot of feedback in the engine being almost diesel like with its added boost. That seems to be carrying over to the CS. That's an s58 problem.

The CS's to have have already been made. Let's see what happens with the g87.

But the next great BMW M car, imo, will be electric. And if you want a great CS car, grab an M2 CS or M5 CS.

[FrozenGT]

This car is handicap by the tire sizes. With that much HP they should have run 305r 295F - it's like Bmw didn't wanna spend the money to produce one off wheels for this car. 20x11 19x10.5

[thebigcheese]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

I actually don't think the M3 CS will be than much better than an M3 xdrive is now, or much better than this CSL.

No one is complaining that the CSL rides poorly or doesn't hit the sweet spot. They are complaining that it either isn't loud enough to be a CSL, or the steering changes aren't big enough relative to the base car. Also a lot of feedback in the engine being almost diesel like with its added boost. That seems to be carrying over to the CS. That's an s58 problem.

The CS's to have have already been made. Let's see what happens with the g87.

But the next great BMW M car, imo, will be electric. And if you want a great CS car, grab an M2 CS or M5 CS.

If the m5cs is that much better than a normal m5comp - why cant a m3cs be the same vs a m3comp? Dont see your logic here at all.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by thebigcheese

If the m5cs is that much better than a normal m5comp - why cant a m3cs be the same vs a m3comp? Dont see your logic here at all.

It certainly can be and I hope it is. It's just that a lot of development went on the CSL (almost 2 years on the N'ring). The CS is getting a few months and a lot of the work seems to be carryover. M5 CS had CSL level time at the ring.

I also think CS will cost $140k as well, there seems to be big expectations rhat it will be cheaper. I don't see that happening.

[thebigcheese]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

It certainly can be and I hope it is. It's just that a lot of development went on the CSL (almost 2 years on the N'ring). The CS is getting a few months and a lot of the work seems to be carryover. M5 CS had CSL level time at the ring.

I also think CS will cost $140k as well, there seems to be big expectations rhat it will be cheaper. I don't see that happening.

Originally Posted by ScullyD

It certainly can be and I hope it is. It's just that a lot of development went on the CSL (almost 2 years on the N'ring). The CS is getting a few months and a lot of the work seems to be carryover. M5 CS had CSL level time at the ring.

I also think CS will cost $140k as well, there seems to be big expectations rhat it will be cheaper. I don't see that happening.

Theres been videos of the m3cs from last year - its been getting more than months of development. Im sure it will be great 😁

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by thebigcheese

If the m5cs is that much better than a normal m5comp - why cant a m3cs be the same vs a m3comp? Dont see your logic here at all.

S55 v S58

[FrozenGT]

CS normally guys is only $25,000 more than the competition. The CS is not a CSL. The CSL cost significantly more because of the light weight reduction and extensive use of carbon fiber, and also a different suspension tuning..

Every real M car is tested at the track numerous times that's not on top of all the other rigorous torture treatment that Bmw puts all them m-cars through.

Remember these cars are boutique cars and are not manufactured and made sitting around. All other BMW cars are mass produced..

[adc]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

CS normally guys is only $25,000 more than the competition. The CS is not a CSL. The CSL cost significantly more because of the light weight reduction and extensive use of carbon fiber, and also a different suspension tuning..

Every real M car is tested at the track numerous times that's not on top of all the other rigorous torture treatment that Bmw puts all them m-cars through.

Remember these cars are boutique cars and are not manufactured and made sitting around. All other BMW cars are mass produced..

It’s just simply not enough IMO.

Take for example Schirmer, who does some additional development on the M cars and then magically they go 10, 15, 20 seconds faster around the Nurburgring and feel fabulous to drive. If you visit the Nurburgring like I did over the summer, more than half the paddock seems to run Schirmer components.

So at least with the F generation cars, there was significantly more potential ready to be unleashed with just a little more effort (Schirmer R&D is but a fraction of the M division’s). I imagine the same is true with the G generation cars.

So why not take the GTS/CS/whatever sportiest model of the line, and truly max out the potential of the platform. It’s baffling to me.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

I actually don't think the M3 CS will be than much better than an M3 xdrive is now, or much better than this CSL.

No one is complaining that the CSL rides poorly or doesn't hit the sweet spot. They are complaining that it either isn't loud enough to be a CSL, or the steering changes aren't big enough relative to the base car. Also a lot of feedback in the engine being almost diesel like with its added boost. That seems to be carrying over to the CS. That's an s58 problem.

The CS's to have have already been made. Let's see what happens with the g87.

But the next great BMW M car, imo, will be electric. And if you want a great CS car, grab an M2 CS or M5 CS.

Honestly, Scully - I'd want to drive it myself before making any decision. The What Car? review says that it makes some great noises and the power delivery is similar to standard. Others say, it's too quiet and could do with more engine noise and that the delivery is boosty. The only thing that is consistent with the feedback is that it's surprisingly comfortable on the road and that it handles well. That's the most important element to me in any case. I have an X3M Comp and that sounds lovely - the CSL will surely sound better than that, accelerate a lot faster and handle well too! This will be a car that I can really use a great deal, which is great news for me. Owners by and large seem to be very happy with it too.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Honestly, Scully - I'd want to drive it myself before making any decision. The What Car? review says that it makes some great noises and the power delivery is similar to standard. Others say, it's too quiet and could do with more engine noise and that the delivery is boosty. The only thing that is consistent with the feedback is that it's surprisingly comfortable on the road and that it handles well. That's the most important element to me in any case. I have an X3M Comp and that sounds lovely - the CSL will surely sound better than that, accelerate a lot faster and handle well too! This will be a car that I can really use a great deal, which is great news for me. Owners by and large seem to be very happy with it too.

The EVO review rhat was published today was much more positive then the 4 star review itself indicates. Makes me think the car is best on street with regular Cup2s (something with more grip than the ps4s but less aggressive than Rs)