[Young04]

Hi all,

I need some guidance on my brakes situation. So I've tried four different types of brakes at this point to try to get rid of the squeal. Problem is that the ones that are quiet rattle over bumps and the ones that don't rattle, squeal.

First set I tried was Carbotech 1521s. All four rattled over bumps. Replaced with EBC Yellowstuff. Rears don't rattle and do not squeak so we are good on rear brakes.

The fronts, while the EBCs do not rattle, continued to squeak even after about 1000 miles.

So I replaced the fronts with iSweep 1500s. No squeak, but they too rattle like the Carbotechs did. However, the rattle is only on the inside pad, on both front wheels. I can move the pad around with my fingers. They can be moved inside to outside, but not up and down or front to back (if that makes sense). I've also replaced the slider pins and bolts but to no avail.

Any ideas?? Is there something wrong with the pistons? Not sure why BOTH front brakes would do this and it seems unlikely that two sets of pads from two different companies (Carbotech and iSweep) were incorrectly cut. I now have a second set of Yellowstuff fronts on order. Will see if those squeal too.

[exmowner]

I’m running carbotech pads and I instantly regretted my purchase. My brakes rattle non stop. It’s Anoying. These are the replacement set I was sent.

I will switch to EBC yellows. I don’t mind squeal but can’t deal with rattle.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Young04

Hi all,

I need some guidance on my brakes situation. So I've tried four different types of brakes at this point to try to get rid of the squeal. Problem is that the ones that are quiet rattle over bumps and the ones that don't rattle, squeal.

First set I tried was Carbotech 1521s. All four rattled over bumps. Replaced with EBC Yellowstuff. Rears don't rattle and do not squeak so we are good on rear brakes.

The fronts, while the EBCs do not rattle, continued to squeak even after about 1000 miles.

So I replaced the fronts with iSweep 1500s. No squeak, but they too rattle like the Carbotechs did. However, the rattle is only on the inside pad, on both front wheels. I can move the pad around with my fingers. They can be moved inside to outside, but not up and down or front to back (if that makes sense). I've also replaced the slider pins and bolts but to no avail.

Any ideas?? Is there something wrong with the pistons? Not sure why BOTH front brakes would do this and it seems unlikely that two sets of pads from two different companies (Carbotech and iSweep) were incorrectly cut. I now have a second set of Yellowstuff fronts on order. Will see if those squeal too.

Send me a video on the iSweep issue and I'll ask Japan for insight.
Maybe they have answer for you.

[Young04]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Send me a video on the iSweep issue and I'll ask Japan for insight.
Maybe they have answer for you.

I do not have a video of the iSweep brakes doing this. Best I have is the rear pads on the Carbotechs. Right now, the EBC pads are on my vehicle. I will probably swap out for the second set of EBCs next week. I will try to throw the iSweep pads on there to make the video.

[Young04]

Originally Posted by exmowner

I’m running carbotech pads and I instantly regretted my purchase. My brakes rattle non stop. It’s Anoying. These are the replacement set I was sent.

I will switch to EBC yellows. I don’t mind squeal but can’t deal with rattle.

What's strange is that there are quite a few people on this forum who said that they had good results with the Carbotech 1521s. I received my Carbotech pads in June. My vehicle has an early March 2022 production date.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Young04

I do not have a video of the iSweep brakes doing this. Best I have is the rear pads on the Carbotechs. Right now, the EBC pads are on my vehicle. I will probably swap out for the second set of EBCs next week. I will try to throw the iSweep pads on there to make the video.

Ok, email it to me.
AFAIK, I have checked them and it fits perfectly fine.
Side to side is meant to be, otherwise brake pad won't slide in and out when you press the brake.
But, too loose of side to side movement is not right too.

Oh, that movement after you step on the brake after installation or just sit there loosely after you push back the piston during installation?

[Young04]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Ok, email it to me.
AFAIK, I have checked them and it fits perfectly fine.
Side to side is meant to be, otherwise brake pad won't slide in and out when you press the brake.
But, too loose of side to side movement is not right too.

Oh, that movement after you step on the brake after installation or just sit there loosely after you push back the piston during installation?

Yes, the movement is after pumping the brakes a few times. Both the OEM and EBC pads do not move after pumping the brakes. Also, I the Carbotechs were about a millimeter or two shorter than the OEM pads when measured with a caliper but I would think that small of a difference wouldn't matter. I didn't measure the iSweep pads. I will send you the video after I take it.

[Matt214]

Any update on this? Looks like this post is a couple years old but I'm having the rattling issue that showed up immediately after installing the iSWEEP 2000s. Here is my write up on another thread: https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=263

Also, this is an interesting video where the guy talks about brake pad rattle and why it occurs. The sound seems to match up roughly with what I'm hearing. Although he talking about a racing caliper, I think the concept of the pad travel is the same. I'm hearing that a number of these after market pads have a 1 mm difference in their size. Perhaps that's giving the extra play that allows the rattle?

[SwankPeRFection]

The two cylinders you see on the ends of the pads are there to combat brake squeal. Ironic, isn’t it, since they do it anyway. 🙄

Rattles are almost always an issue with improperly installed or misaligned metal pressure clips at the top that keep the pads seated into the caliper. Sometimes people have issues installing the pins right because you have to compress the clips pretty far down and apply force to get them to compress against the pad to where the pin will easily slide through the correct part of the clip and into the other retaining hole on the other side of the caliper that the pin goes into. I’ve seen some people totally miss this and push the pin in without compressing that spring-clip first ALL THE WAY and it’ll rattle all the time. Check it all again and if you need to post pics so we can verify for you.

[Matt214]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

The two cylinders you see on the ends of the pads are there to combat brake squeal. Ironic, isn’t it, since they do it anyway. ��

Rattles are almost always an issue with improperly installed or misaligned metal pressure clips at the top that keep the pads seated into the caliper. Sometimes people have issues installing the pins right because you have to compress the clips pretty far down and apply force to get them to compress against the pad to where the pin will easily slide through the correct part of the clip and into the other retaining hole on the other side of the caliper that the pin goes into. I’ve seen some people totally miss this and push the pin in without compressing that spring-clip first ALL THE WAY and it’ll rattle all the time. Check it all again and if you need to post pics so we can verify for you.

Thanks, that all makes sense. I got around to pulling off the wheel this morning and thoroughly checked everything. I see no issues of any kind. Pins are through the pad correctly and firmly seated into the holes on both sides of the caliper. Springs are nicely compressed up against the pad edges, as expected. Pads are perfectly aligned against swept area of the rotor. Attaching pics to show the alignment from different angles.

[Matt214]

As a quick follow up, I also took a video and have a possible hypothesis. I tried to wiggle the pads as best as I could, with my fingers, while they are installed. The outer pad had no movement but the inner pad I could slightly wiggle and it makes a noise. See this video below:

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/e7kiux44q...ySXs7cZ01KTxpa

I also took off the driver's side wheel (which doesn't seem to have a rattle coming from that side while driving) and the outer pad didn't move at all but the inner pad would very slightly wiggle but oddly didn't seem to make any sound.

As a result, I suspect this comes down to the iSWEEP pads not having any kind of shim on the backside of the pad. It's simply the metal backplate, which would be up against the pistons of the caliper. The OEM pads do, as shown in the picture. If this is the source of something as annoying as a rattle while driving then really I would have expected better from an $750 (all 4 wheels) set of pads.

r33_RGSport have you received any updates/feedback from Japan on this?

Any other theories?

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Matt214

As a quick follow up, I also took a video and have a possible hypothesis. I tried to wiggle the pads as best as I could, with my fingers, while they are installed. The outer pad had no movement but the inner pad I could slightly wiggle and it makes a noise. See this video below:

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/e7kiux44q3iba62/AABrrWVcKpoySXs7cZ01KTxpa

I also took off the driver's side wheel (which doesn't seem to have a rattle coming from that side while driving) and the outer pad didn't move at all but the inner pad would very slightly wiggle but oddly didn't seem to make any sound.

As a result, I suspect this comes down to the iSWEEP pads not having any kind of shim on the backside of the pad. It's simply the metal backplate, which would be up against the pistons of the caliper. The OEM pads do, as shown in the picture. If this is the source of something as annoying as a rattle while driving then really I would have expected better from an $750 (all 4 wheels) set of pads.

r33_RGSport have you received any updates/feedback from Japan on this?

Any other theories?

The iSweep front pads does come with shim. Could you take it off and take a picture?
Also, your movement is only on the inner side, this is caliper issue that I encountered before.
Try to swap the pads and see of the movement moves. If it doesn’t, then it is the caliper.
Remember, BMW is a company that will cut cost to maximize profit.
The later in MY, the more small item gone missing from the car.
For example, your rear calipers ///M plate, /designation panel in the center console, etc.

[Matt214]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

The iSweep front pads does come with shim. Could you take it off and take a picture?
Also, your movement is only on the inner side, this is caliper issue that I encountered before.
Try to swap the pads and see of the movement moves. If it doesn’t, then it is the caliper.
Remember, BMW is a company that will cut cost to maximize profit.
The later in MY, the more small item gone missing from the car.
For example, your rear calipers ///M plate, /designation panel in the center console, etc.

Hi, r33_RGSport , I'll see if I can get around to tearing it all back down sometime soon. It's been 103 degrees or higher each day and makes working on the car outside (which is my option where I live), rather miserable so will have find time on a weekend morning, more than likely.

Should the pad shims have already been attached to the pad? Unless they were separate and somehow left out of the box then I don't know how I could have missed them. I noticed the shims being present on the factory pad right away and took note that the iSWEEPs didn't have one. I ordered them from ECS Tuning. I recall noticing that the back of the pads were just the metal backplate of the pad with no additional shim of any kind .

Last weekend when I made my previous post, I did notice that like others have noted, the inner pad had an ever so slight amount of wiggle/play but the outer did not. It was only my passenger side that would make the clicking noise, which I noted in my video in my previous post.

I don't doubt that BMW will try to maximize profits by cutting out details. Unfortunately the majority of manufacturers do. It's about satisfying their stakeholders and padding their bottom line. The point here; however, is that the stock pads do not rattle. The new ones do. By logical analysis that would lead me to believe there is some sort of engineering detail related to the dimensions of the new pads that is not quite in stride with the OEM pads.

If you have connections with the manufacturer in Japan, I would encourage this info to be relayed. Overall I'm happy with the performance of the pad but something as irritating as trading out the squealing, for a rattling, is highly annoying and is a fly in the proverbial ointment.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Matt214

Hi, r33_RGSport , I'll see if I can get around to tearing it all back down sometime soon. It's been 103 degrees or higher each day and makes working on the car outside (which is my option where I live), rather miserable so will have find time on a weekend morning, more than likely.

Should the pad shims have already been attached to the pad? Unless they were separate and somehow left out of the box then I don't know how I could have missed them. I noticed the shims being present on the factory pad right away and took note that the iSWEEPs didn't have one. I ordered them from ECS Tuning. I recall noticing that the back of the pads were just the metal backplate of the pad with no additional shim of any kind .

Last weekend when I made my previous post, I did notice that like others have noted, the inner pad had an ever so slight amount of wiggle/play but the outer did not. It was only my passenger side that would make the clicking noise, which I noted in my video in my previous post.

I don't doubt that BMW will try to maximize profits by cutting out details. Unfortunately the majority of manufacturers do. It's about satisfying their stakeholders and padding their bottom line. The point here; however, is that the stock pads do not rattle. The new ones do. By logical analysis that would lead me to believe there is some sort of engineering detail related to the dimensions of the new pads that is not quite in stride with the OEM pads.

If you have connections with the manufacturer in Japan, I would encourage this info to be relayed. Overall I'm happy with the performance of the pad but something as irritating as trading out the squealing, for a rattling, is highly annoying and is a fly in the proverbial ointment.

Whenever you have a chance, take them out and take a picture of the backplate. Shims should be there.

Yes, I have mentioned to Japan regarding this when I received this report.
My answer is from conclusion on what may cause it.
Because it is not possible to make inner and outer brake pads with 2 different jig.
And all the few reports that I have received, the rattle / movement only from the inner. What is the chance of all installed the possibly "Defective" pad on the inner, just doesn't makes sense if it is the pads issue.
While you have it out, try to swap the inner to outer pad, see if the play stays on the inner or moved to the outer.
If it moved to the outer, then it is the pad. If it stays on the inner, then it is the caliper. Same troubleshooting method that I have used.

Yes, I do have direct connection with iSweep since I am the exclusive importer and distributor for BMW Application.

[Matt214]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Whenever you have a chance, take them out and take a picture of the backplate. Shims should be there.

Yes, I have mentioned to Japan regarding this when I received this report.
My answer is from conclusion on what may cause it.
Because it is not possible to make inner and outer brake pads with 2 different jig.
And all the few reports that I have received, the rattle / movement only from the inner. What is the chance of all installed the possibly "Defective" pad on the inner, just doesn't makes sense if it is the pads issue.
While you have it out, try to swap the inner to outer pad, see if the play stays on the inner or moved to the outer.
If it moved to the outer, then it is the pad. If it stays on the inner, then it is the caliper. Same troubleshooting method that I have used.

Yes, I do have direct connection with iSweep since I am the exclusive importer and distributor for BMW Application.

r33_RGSport , I'm assuming the back iSWEEP pads should also have shims? It occurred to me the backplate is visible on the rear calipers, without taking off the wheel and caliper. I can see and also feel that it's just plain metal on the back of the pads for the rears, as an example. Please see the pics.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Matt214

r33_RGSport , I'm assuming the back iSWEEP pads should also have shims? It occurred to me the backplate is visible on the rear calipers, without taking off the wheel and caliper. I can see and also feel that it's just plain metal on the back of the pads for the rears, as an example. Please see the pics.

Rear doesn't come, nor required shim since it doesn't make noise.
Shim is one of a solution to reduce noise.

I thought we were talking about the front that you are having issue with.

[Matt214]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Rear doesn't come, nor required shim since it doesn't make noise.
Shim is one of a solution to reduce noise.

I thought we were talking about the front that you are having issue with.

Yes, it's the fronts that appear to be making the noise; however, I figured that if the rears were ALSO supposed to have a shim, then it might be indicative of the front not having the shims. Trying to offer as much info, in advance of taking everything on the front, back apart.

[Matt214]

Originally Posted by Luc@Speed&Tech

Recently did a pad swap and the fronts have shims. The rears do not.

Thanks, Luc@Speed&Tech , I plan to pull off the front wheel and check my front pads, this weekend as I don't recall seeing that shim present on my front pads. I'll report back as to what I find and take a couple more pics as well.

[Matt214]

Well, the good news is I saved myself having to pull off the brakes again. I had forgotten I took a pic of one of the new iSWEEP brake pads, to show one of my friends and I happened to have the backplate facing the camera, in the pic and sure enough there is a shim on it. Apparently the 105 temp outside while I did the brakes had gotten to me and I had the fact that the back pads do not have a shim, stuck in my mind.

So the bad news is, it's still a mystery as to what exactly is causing the rattle. Again, clearly there is some small difference between the stock BMW pads, which do not rattle, and the new iSWEEP pads, which do make a rattling noise.

Now, an observation after driving around for several days is that the rattling appears to have subsided. I still hear it over certain road textures and bumps but it's less than it was. Perhaps due to the fact that the pads have bedded in some has helped in some way. Anyway, hoping to hear of a solution if one is developed.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Matt214

Well, the good news is I saved myself having to pull off the brakes again. I had forgotten I took a pic of one of the new iSWEEP brake pads, to show one of my friends and I happened to have the backplate facing the camera, in the pic and sure enough there is a shim on it. Apparently the 105 temp outside while I did the brakes had gotten to me and I had the fact that the back pads do not have a shim, stuck in my mind.

So the bad news is, it's still a mystery as to what exactly is causing the rattle. Again, clearly there is some small difference between the stock BMW pads, which do not rattle, and the new iSWEEP pads, which do make a rattling noise.

Now, an observation after driving around for several days is that the rattling appears to have subsided. I still hear it over certain road textures and bumps but it's less than it was. Perhaps due to the fact that the pads have bedded in some has helped in some way. Anyway, hoping to hear of a solution if one is developed.

As I mentioned. Try to swap the inner pad (the loose one) to the outer.
If the noise moved, then it is the pad. If it doesn’t, then it is the caliper.
Or something wasn’t put back correctly. Since all of my local installation doesn’t have such issue.

[ekook95]

Originally Posted by Matt214

Well, the good news is I saved myself having to pull off the brakes again. I had forgotten I took a pic of one of the new iSWEEP brake pads, to show one of my friends and I happened to have the backplate facing the camera, in the pic and sure enough there is a shim on it. Apparently the 105 temp outside while I did the brakes had gotten to me and I had the fact that the back pads do not have a shim, stuck in my mind.

So the bad news is, it's still a mystery as to what exactly is causing the rattle. Again, clearly there is some small difference between the stock BMW pads, which do not rattle, and the new iSWEEP pads, which do make a rattling noise.

Now, an observation after driving around for several days is that the rattling appears to have subsided. I still hear it over certain road textures and bumps but it's less than it was. Perhaps due to the fact that the pads have bedded in some has helped in some way. Anyway, hoping to hear of a solution if one is developed.

Have you found a solution to this? Im having the same issue with isweep1500s at the front

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by ekook95

Have you found a solution to this? Im having the same issue with isweep1500s at the front

I have received your email from you to iSweep Japan.
Based on my observation, either your pad is not greased on the outer edges that in contact with the caliper or your installer used force to insert the pin.
I noticed a dent on the guide pin hole. I will check my stocks at the office tomorrow morning to confirm how it is in new condition.