[KoenG]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

Topgear is really enhousiastic about the 6MT, clearly more than they are about the ZF competition!

It confirms what many of the MT enthousiast crowd have been stating here many times before.

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...21/first-drive

[NightWriter]

Great article. I like the summary:

[For UK residents who can't order the 6MT:] Really, you’re not missing out on 95 per cent of the experience. Then again, that final five per cent can be the difference between a good time and a great one.

#savethemanuals

[bri1042]

"Whether you’ll be able to slum it with just 470bhp and 405lb ft depends on how much you appreciate the irony in what we’ve just said."

Made me chuckle. After over a year, I still don't feel like the car needs more power...possibly 'cause I'm not a youngin' and remember when everyone was so impressed with the original Viper's 400hp.

#savethemanuals indeed.

[MTM3]

Because MT made this car. Otherwise it’s just a fast automatic family sedan

[zambarossa]

I met the president of BMW Canada at a dealer event a few years back. One thing I mentioned to him was #savethemanuals and he was raving about the M2. I was hoping it was not the last manual and I am so glad they brought the M3 6MT here. The M2 does not fit my needs and I could not have lived with myself driving a auto. Whether I keep this car past my current lease or not, I will cherish every second rowing the gears

[moonluv810]

Originally Posted by MTM3

Because MT made this car. Otherwise it’s just a fast automatic family sedan

Very true indeed!

[G80indy]

The G80MT was the only reason I could part with my E92

[MalibuM3]

Same here. For the M3 G80 6MT gas guzzler I have skipped my entitlement for my next company car in the price range of a BMW iX 40, i4, Audi e-tron, Merc E-Class, Audi A6 or BMW 5-series …

[kyoung05]

Out of curiosity, how is the manual transmission in the G80? My direct experience with manual transmissions in BMW's has been limited to an E90 335i loaner years ago, and that was a very underwhelming experience. Long-ish clutch travel, long throws, rubbery feel. I was kind of hoping it'd be better in an M car, but my brother had an E90 M3 with the MT, and he described the experience similarly.

When MotorTrend was testing the M4 with the manual in their PVOTY competition, they described the transmission as the "Worst manual in the competition."

Is the transmission really that bad? Or, is that being overblown?

For reference, I've been a diehard manual guy for as long as I've been driving. In those 25+ years, I only went about 24mo without a manual transmission car. I grew up with Honda manual transmissions in the mid-90's, and I have very fond memories of them. The shifter in the Integra Type-R is/was my favorite. More recently, I've moved to Subaru's with manual transmissions. The MT in my 2005 STI is pretty good - notchy, direct, little to no slop. Not as good as the Honda's, but still good.

I briefly drove a 986 Boxster with the MT and didn't care for it. Again, clutch travel was way too long (with the engagement point being near the top of the pedal travel), and the shifter felt very loose.

I guess what I'm asking is, is the MT in the G80 the "better" choice simply because it's a manual, and some of us will always prefer manuals over auto's (and yes, I classify anything without a physical clutch pedal to be an auto - DCT, PDK, etc.)? Or, is it genuinely a good transmission that provides an engaging experience? I get that manuals today will always be slower than their auto counterparts - but if they can provide a better and more engaging driving experience, I think the tradeoff would be worth it.

For those of you that got the MT, is it your only MT car?

[DavidXJ]

Very interesting piece--and thanks OP for bringing it to our attention. Not only do we folks in the UK not have the option to order it, but now by all accounts driving schools here are being actively discouraged from teaching new drivers how to operate MT cars. It's all part of the EV-evangelism agenda: the government here, as in other parts of Europe, have become so fixated with the acceleration of the 'switch' to electric that the very idea of investing in, or even learning to drive, manual cars has become heretical. It's so rare, for instance, to see manual cars being reviewed in auto mags (other than Top Gear itself and EVO) as if it's scandalous to be seen to be promoting a technology that's out of step with the piety of electrification. I realise this is a bit off topic; but such is the ideological backdrop to what makes the TG review all the more remarkable for appearing at all!

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by kyoung05

Out of curiosity, how is the manual transmission in the G80? My direct experience with manual transmissions in BMW's has been limited to an E90 335i loaner years ago, and that was a very underwhelming experience. Long-ish clutch travel, long throws, rubbery feel. I was kind of hoping it'd be better in an M car, but my brother had an E90 M3 with the MT, and he described the experience similarly.

When MotorTrend was testing the M4 with the manual in their PVOTY competition, they described the transmission as the "Worst manual in the competition."

Is the transmission really that bad? Or, is that being overblown?

For reference, I've been a diehard manual guy for as long as I've been driving. In those 25+ years, I only went about 24mo without a manual transmission car. I grew up with Honda manual transmissions in the mid-90's, and I have very fond memories of them. The shifter in the Integra Type-R is/was my favorite. More recently, I've moved to Subaru's with manual transmissions. The MT in my 2005 STI is pretty good - notchy, direct, little to no slop. Not as good as the Honda's, but still good.

I briefly drove a 986 Boxster with the MT and didn't care for it. Again, clutch travel was way too long (with the engagement point being near the top of the pedal travel), and the shifter felt very loose.

I guess what I'm asking is, is the MT in the G80 the "better" choice simply because it's a manual, and some of us will always prefer manuals over auto's (and yes, I classify anything without a physical clutch pedal to be an auto - DCT, PDK, etc.)? Or, is it genuinely a good transmission that provides an engaging experience? I get that manuals today will always be slower than their auto counterparts - but if they can provide a better and more engaging driving experience, I think the tradeoff would be worth it.

For those of you that got the MT, is it your only MT car?

K,

In many ways, yes, that's exactly what this manual is. It's far from the best manual ever made. However, part of the issue with driving manuals has always been that no two really feel the same. There are similarities by transmission manufacturer, but even then there are sometimes vast differences.

This was my first manual BMW. It's currently not just my only manual, it's also my only car. I've driven manuals for decades, and most of them Honda/Acura 5MT and 6MT's. When I got in this car and my brain dredged up my "drive a manual" muscle memory and reflexes, there were some serious disconnects. But I've had the car for a year. The Honda reflexes have been replaced by BMW manual reflexes, and the unit itself is now well broken in (the gear selector was very stiff when I got the car and now it isn't). If I jumped into an RSX-S right now (I owned two over 8 years), my reflexes would again be off for that car's transmission instead.

One of the joys of manuals...it takes time to acclimate your reflexes to each particular car. It's quicker to get in sync with an auto. There are good manuals and bad manuals...I don't think this one is entirely bad after a year with it, I just don't think it's one that behaves exactly like various reviewers expect it to.

Edit - I guess my point is that the best manual is the one you're used to, to an extent at least.

[kyoung05]

Originally Posted by bri1042

K,

In many ways, yes, that's exactly what this manual is. It's far from the best manual ever made. However, part of the issue with driving manuals has always been that no two really feel the same. There are similarities by transmission manufacturer, but even then there are sometimes vast differences.

This was my first manual BMW. It's currently not just my only manual, it's also my only car. I've driven manuals for decades, and most of them Honda/Acura 5MT and 6MT's. When I got in this car and my brain dredged up my "drive a manual" muscle memory and reflexes, there were some serious disconnects. But I've had the car for a year. The Honda reflexes have been replaced by BMW manual reflexes, and the unit itself is now well broken in (the gear selector was very stiff when I got the car and now it isn't). If I jumped into an RSX-S right now (I owned two over 8 years), my reflexes would again be off for that car's transmission instead.

One of the joys of manuals...it takes time to acclimate your reflexes to each particular car. It's quicker to get in sync with an auto. There are good manuals and bad manuals...I don't think this one is entirely bad after a year with it, I just don't think it's one that behaves exactly like various reviewers expect it to.

Edit - I guess my point is that the best manual is the one you're used to, to an extent at least.

That makes sense, and appreciate you taking the time to articulate your experience.

So, based on your take, would it be accurate to say that the MT in the G80 is pretty "middle of the road" as far as manual transmission go, but it's the only one available for this platform, and perhaps the last one available period for an M, period - hence the desire?

I wonder if I need to spend more time with some non-JDM manuals. I spent some time driving my father in law's '03 Procharged Mustang GT, but that was very much it's own experience.

Ultimately, I think my use case dictates AWD so I'd be forced to get the auto, but I had all but entirely written off this car in the manual because of the reviews I had read.

[bri1042]

It could be called middle of the road, I guess. I've driven some really bad manuals in my time, including a 1980 Pontiac Phoenix with a 4MT and no hydraulic assist on the clutch. Or the steering. One of the worst manuals I've driven in a relatively modern car was on a Mazda 3 (2008, maybe?). The gear selector felt like it was going to break in my hand and the clutch was so light I could barely feel it under my foot. I've heard a few folk rave about that manual, though, so...matter of perspective and experience.

My car philosophy has ALWAYS been to learn the car I'm driving rather than expect it to be something I've imagined or a car I had once upon a time that I've attached a lot of emotional baggage to. This 6MT has been around for a long time. It's the same one that was on the F80 (though not exactly the same one that was on E90 M3 from what I could glean while filling time with some research...could be wrong and it's just different gear ratios). It's durable, functional, and performs very consistently once you learn it. It also clearly has a break in of at least a couple thousand miles so some press cars may have been better appreciated if they'd had more miles on them.

So is it middle of the road? Still "probably". Are its flaws a reason to skip one of the last manual performance sedans? Nope. Just the opposite. Cars aren't supposed to be perfect, the flaws can be character if you let them be.

[kyoung05]

Originally Posted by bri1042

It could be called middle of the road, I guess. I've driven some really bad manuals in my time, including a 1980 Pontiac Phoenix with a 4MT and no hydraulic assist on the clutch. Or the steering. One of the worst manuals I've driven in a relatively modern car was on a Mazda 3 (2008, maybe?). The gear selector felt like it was going to break in my hand and the clutch was so light I could barely feel it under my foot. I've heard a few folk rave about that manual, though, so...matter of perspective and experience.

My car philosophy has ALWAYS been to learn the car I'm driving rather than expect it to be something I've imagined or a car I had once upon a time that I've attached a lot of emotional baggage to. This 6MT has been around for a long time. It's the same one that was on the F80 (though not exactly the same one that was on E90 M3 from what I could glean while filling time with some research...could be wrong and it's just different gear ratios). It's durable, functional, and performs very consistently once you learn it. It also clearly has a break in of at least a couple thousand miles so some press cars may have been better appreciated if they'd had more miles on them.

So is it middle of the road? Still "probably". Are its flaws a reason to skip one of the last manual performance sedans? Nope. Just the opposite. Cars aren't supposed to be perfect, the flaws can be character if you let them be.

I absolutely agree. A car having “soul” is really just another way of saying it’s imperfect - which in a weird way doesn’t preclude it from being perfect also.

If the xDrive were available with a manual, there’s a strong chance that’d be the one I’d want. Unfortunately, it isn’t and I guess I’m kind of ok with that. I’ve experienced the ZF8 in 3 cars now - F30 335i, Charger Scat Pack, and now the M340i. It’s a really good transmission and I’ve never driven any of the cars hard enough to where I felt I needed something better. Would a manual transmission have improved any of those cars? From a performance standpoint, probably not. From an engagement perspective? Maybe. But given that all of these cars have been daily drivers tasked with family duty, I’ve grown to appreciate the simplicity of a good automatic transmission in this type of car.

Now, if we’re talking about a car that is primarily intended to be driven for the sake of driving, 100% no question it needs a manual or I wouldn’t consider it - regardless of how good everything else on it might be.

[G80indy]

If I had a commute on heavily trafficked roads and this was the only ride, it would be a steptronic.
This will be a special ride and therefore 6MT — probably the last MT for the stable

[KoenG]

I must admit that I was not a fan of the MT in this car. I drove many MT BMW's (none M) and the shift/clutch experience was only average at best. The ZF8HP is a marvellous transmission and feels suited to all occasions.

Nevertheless, after driving several ZF8HP equipped cars, I can perfectly understand that it does take away from the driving experience. It's one layer of engagement less. Probably MT is slower and less effective, but it makes you feel in the center of control, even on your daily commute.

With the plethora of soulless EVs popping up now, replacing these ICE cars at high rate, a bit of extra driving engagement won't hurt!

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by 330indy

If I had a commute on heavily trafficked roads and this was the only ride, it would be a steptronic.
This will be a special ride and therefore 6MT — probably the last MT for the stable

The ZF8 adds to the luxury experience and because it has more HP and more torque it takes the car to the next level. I'd imagine if you wanted an automatic this has to be an absolutely perfect car.

For me; I absolutely must have a 6MT no question!!!!!!

🦅

[midlifecrisis]

I'm a "You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands." manual transmission fan, and I love my G80 6 speed. It's my 6th BMW with a manual transmission. Although it did take a little while to get used to (especially the 1-2 up shift), it's overall the best manual I've had since the E30. Given the difference in power and torque it has to handle, the transmission is just fine by me. I drove a Miata RF 6 speed for 2 1/2 years, and the shifter in that car is renowned for its smoothness. It felt kind of soul-less to me. The more I drive the G80, the more I appreciate the transmission and clutch.

As the only premium performance sedan with a manual transmission other than the Caddies, I'm extremely happy with the transmission and shift action on my G80.

[ROBERT1183]

My G80 is a weekend/fun car so the manual was really the only option for me. If it was a daily driver I would of considered a Xdrive. But I love the manual. All around a much better car then my F80 6 speed comp and I loved that car too.

[MTM3]

Originally Posted by ROBERT1183

My G80 is a weekend/fun car so the manual was really the only option for me. If it was a daily driver I would of considered a Xdrive. But I love the manual. All around a much better car then my F80 6 speed comp and I loved that car too.

Same here and yes G80 6MT is much better than my F80 MT was.

[KurzcoupeF82]

Originally Posted by kyoung05

Out of curiosity, how is the manual transmission in the G80? My direct experience with manual transmissions in BMW's has been limited to an E90 335i loaner years ago, and that was a very underwhelming experience. Long-ish clutch travel, long throws, rubbery feel. I was kind of hoping it'd be better in an M car, but my brother had an E90 M3 with the MT, and he described the experience similarly.

When MotorTrend was testing the M4 with the manual in their PVOTY competition, they described the transmission as the "Worst manual in the competition."

Is the transmission really that bad? Or, is that being overblown?

For reference, I've been a diehard manual guy for as long as I've been driving. In those 25+ years, I only went about 24mo without a manual transmission car. I grew up with Honda manual transmissions in the mid-90's, and I have very fond memories of them. The shifter in the Integra Type-R is/was my favorite. More recently, I've moved to Subaru's with manual transmissions. The MT in my 2005 STI is pretty good - notchy, direct, little to no slop. Not as good as the Honda's, but still good.

I briefly drove a 986 Boxster with the MT and didn't care for it. Again, clutch travel was way too long (with the engagement point being near the top of the pedal travel), and the shifter felt very loose.

I guess what I'm asking is, is the MT in the G80 the "better" choice simply because it's a manual, and some of us will always prefer manuals over auto's (and yes, I classify anything without a physical clutch pedal to be an auto - DCT, PDK, etc.)? Or, is it genuinely a good transmission that provides an engaging experience? I get that manuals today will always be slower than their auto counterparts - but if they can provide a better and more engaging driving experience, I think the tradeoff would be worth it.

For those of you that got the MT, is it your only MT car?

Originally Posted by kyoung05

Out of curiosity, how is the manual transmission in the G80? My direct experience with manual transmissions in BMW's has been limited to an E90 335i loaner years ago, and that was a very underwhelming experience. Long-ish clutch travel, long throws, rubbery feel. I was kind of hoping it'd be better in an M car, but my brother had an E90 M3 with the MT, and he described the experience similarly.

When MotorTrend was testing the M4 with the manual in their PVOTY competition, they described the transmission as the "Worst manual in the competition."

Is the transmission really that bad? Or, is that being overblown?

For reference, I've been a diehard manual guy for as long as I've been driving. In those 25+ years, I only went about 24mo without a manual transmission car. I grew up with Honda manual transmissions in the mid-90's, and I have very fond memories of them. The shifter in the Integra Type-R is/was my favorite. More recently, I've moved to Subaru's with manual transmissions. The MT in my 2005 STI is pretty good - notchy, direct, little to no slop. Not as good as the Honda's, but still good.

I briefly drove a 986 Boxster with the MT and didn't care for it. Again, clutch travel was way too long (with the engagement point being near the top of the pedal travel), and the shifter felt very loose.

I guess what I'm asking is, is the MT in the G80 the "better" choice simply because it's a manual, and some of us will always prefer manuals over auto's (and yes, I classify anything without a physical clutch pedal to be an auto - DCT, PDK, etc.)? Or, is it genuinely a good transmission that provides an engaging experience? I get that manuals today will always be slower than their auto counterparts - but if they can provide a better and more engaging driving experience, I think the tradeoff would be worth it.

For those of you that got the MT, is it your only MT car?

I think the F8x's manual was the closest thing to Honda. I remember when I test drove one a long while back, I thought the clutch was most reminiscent of the old hatch back Civic Si. Traction was the biggest issue in the F8x from that snap torque, but compared to the e46 and e39 clutch pedal, way easier to live with. I don't know if it's "better", but it is shockingly light even compared to my old WRX. Clutch travel felt considerably shorter than the e46 and e39 too. I imagine the g8x has the same pedal feel as the F8x, which just feels like a diet clutch when compared to the old N/A M cars. Personally, I like the lighter pedal.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by KoenG

I must admit that I was not a fan of the MT in this car. I drove many MT BMW's (none M) and the shift/clutch experience was only average at best. The ZF8HP is a marvellous transmission and feels suited to all occasions.

Nevertheless, after driving several ZF8HP equipped cars, I can perfectly understand that it does take away from the driving experience. It's one layer of engagement less. Probably MT is slower and less effective, but it makes you feel in the center of control, even on your daily commute.

With the plethora of soulless EVs popping up now, replacing these ICE cars at high rate, a bit of extra driving engagement won't hurt!

It's why the DCT M2 CS was the true last of its kind for M. The ZF8 isn't as engaging. For me (and how and where I drive my CS - which includes commutes on occasion and canyon runs) it's the goldilocks transmission.