[LuvMyE92]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

We have had some good reviews and comments from participants here about their new M3/M4 cars. I thought I'd chime in as well, from a slightly different perspective.

I bought my car off the dealer lot in May. After the 1200 mile break-in service was done, and a few miles added on, I took it to Virginia International Raceway (VIR) for a brief HPDE with PCA. It was a nice day, temps in the mid-80s with high humidity. The car is a 2021 M4 with a manual transmission and the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, at around 32 PSI cold.

I am an experienced HPDE participant and former instructor. I did zero prep to the car. No race brake pads, no harness bar, no special brake cooling ducts, I didn't even flush the brake fluid since the car is so new. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Literally right off of the showroom floor. OK, I did torque the wheels and check air pressures and I put on a helmet.

• - The handling on this car is awesome, nearly neutral with a smidgen of understeer when you really push it hard. Communication through the front end is abysmal, you don't really feel the understeer as much as you realize that you're not making your line. If the rear gets loose, it's a little bit of a surprise but easy to catch. I'm probably more used to this because of all of my time in Corvettes, which aren't great about telling you anything.
• - brakes are phenomenal. You can adjust the force required (comfort or track) so I put it in track for the first session, but it was a little too sensitive and grabby, so I put it back to comfort, which just felt normal. On the street, sometimes it feels like I have to use more force than normal for a hard stop, but on the track it was just fine. The only one time I felt any fade was after I set a new top speed record (for me) and even then, the fade was minimal.
• - the power is absolutely insane. The gearing is perfect for VIR, plus there really is no RPM above 2K where you don't have buckets of torque. When I tried to use full throttle as I tracked out of turn 2, I would lose traction and scare the beejezus out of myself going into T3. OMG. Shifting out of fourth into fifth at 120 MPH still pushes you back in the seat. I saw 143 on the back straight, and a decent driver who would have gotten out of Oak Tree faster and waited a little longer to brake at the end could easily see 150+. It was still pulling strong.
• - the HUD in "M Mode" has a huge tachometer display, which was too big and distracting. Shame.
• - The car runs at about 210° oil temp on the highway. On the track, the car knows that it's getting beat on, and oil temps are held down to about 190 (which is where they should be). It was in the mid-eighties and humid, and there were no concerns (from me) about overheating.
• - I complain about the wonky steering, and on the street making small corrections, it sucks. On the track, it's just perfect, using the same comfort setting.
• - I was in MDM mode, which I believe stands for M Dynamic Mode, which is reduced DSC intervention, but even so I got the rear loose enough that I had to let off the gas a few times. If I had not lifted a bit, I think I would have spun, although I suppose the car could have maybe caught it, but I didn't feel like finding out the limits of that mode.
• - I checked the air pressures and tire tread frequently. The former held up at around 38 all around, and the wear was rolling over nicely, right about where they should be (i.e. not past the edge of tread).
• - My car has the standard seats, and there were times that I wished I had either the carbon race seats or a proper 5-point harness. I was getting tossed around quite a bit. If you intend to track your car a lot, one or both options would be required. However, I will not be tracking this much more (those days are behind me) so I won't mess it up (reduce the livability factor) by changing anything.

I was absolutely gob-smacked at how awesome this car was on the track. If you look at my signature line below, you will see an M2, a few M5s and an M3 in there somewhere. I have tracked the M2 and an M5, multiple Porsches and Corvettes including a Z06, and an E36 race car. I've driven the M2,3,4,5 on the track at BMW's performance centers in both SC and CA, and I've driven the M8. The M5 and M8 are probably faster in most regards, but this car is still better. The M2 is an awesome little car, but it understeers more and is not nearly as liveable.

I liked the M4 before I went to VIR. I love it now.

The attached photo was clipped from the web site of the photographer (F&S Enterprises) but don't worry, I'm not ripping them off, I will order at least one real photo at full price.

[OF Hero]

Nice write up, enjoyed reading that!

[Patton250]

Great write up. Awesome stuff. Thanks man!!!

[heavyD^2]

Good read. Thanks for sharing.

[vetteflier]

Good writeup. You can reduce the tach spread on the HUD. I did, and it is far less intrusive. It's in Settings/Displays/HUD. In Corvettes, the understeer button is the throttle. Tip in tightens the line nicely. I've raced at VIR as well, some years ago, and Road America in my (much) younger days. Both great tracks.

[PLife]

Yesss!!! This is really exciting especially considering your comparative experiences. Bmw knocked it out of the park. Im curious how you would feel about the competition model

[02M3ForMe]

Vivid and helpful impressions - great job.

As mentioned by vetteflier, the M-Mode HUD can be made lower profile. The option is called, “Reduced Height”. Here’s what it looks like.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

You can reduce the tach spread on the HUD. I did, and it is far less intrusive. It's in Settings/Displays/HUD.

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

As mentioned by vetteflier, the M-Mode HUD can be made lower profile. The option is called, “Reduced Height”. Here’s what it looks like.

Ah, thank you both. I remember seeing the setting, but I thought it just moved the display down, not that it made it shorter. I will definitely give that a try.

Originally Posted by PLife

Im curious how you would feel about the competition model

Who wants to loan me their car for a day at the track?

Seriously, I suspect that the comp will largely perform the same, but with more horsepower will accelerate better and get a higher top speed. I like the challenge of shifting, heel & toe, etc. and so I figure as long as I can, I'll get the manual.

[dimab0]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I remember seeing the setting, but I thought it just moved the display down, not that it made it shorter.

I also did not like that the HUD tach was distracting and took too much of my view. I don't like the setting to make it shorter. Instead, when I am at the track I lower the height of the HUD to ~2 notches above the very lowest setting. This cuts off the speed display and the very bottom of the tach. It leave just the bar and notches, and still displays the 'shift lights' when you get close to redline. Was a good compromise. And then change HUD back to normal at the end of the track day...

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

We have had some good reviews and comments from participants here about their new M3/M4 cars. I thought I'd chime in as well, from a slightly different perspective.

I bought my car off the dealer lot in May. After the 1200 mile break-in service was done, and a few miles added on, I took it to Virginia International Raceway (VIR) for a brief HPDE with PCA. It was a nice day, temps in the mid-80s with high humidity. The car is a 2021 M4 with a manual transmission and the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, at around 32 PSI cold.

I am an experienced HPDE participant and former instructor. I did zero prep to the car. No race brake pads, no harness bar, no special brake cooling ducts, I didn't even flush the brake fluid since the car is so new. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Literally right off of the showroom floor. OK, I did torque the wheels and check air pressures and I put on a helmet.

- The handling on this car is awesome, nearly neutral with a smidgen of understeer when you really push it hard. Communication through the front end is abysmal, you don't really feel the understeer as much as you realize that you're not making your line. If the rear gets loose, it's a little bit of a surprise but easy to catch. I'm probably more used to this because of all of my time in Corvettes, which aren't great about telling you anything.
- brakes are phenomenal. You can adjust the force required (comfort or track) so I put it in track for the first session, but it was a little too sensitive and grabby, so I put it back to comfort, which just felt normal. On the street, sometimes it feels like I have to use more force than normal for a hard stop, but on the track it was just fine. The only one time I felt any fade was after I set a new top speed record (for me) and even then, the fade was minimal.
- the power is absolutely insane. The gearing is perfect for VIR, plus there really is no RPM above 2K where you don't have buckets of torque. When I tried to use full throttle as I tracked out of turn 2, I would lose traction and scare the beejezus out of myself going into T3. OMG. Shifting out of fourth into fifth at 120 MPH still pushes you back in the seat. I saw 143 on the back straight, and a decent driver who would have gotten out of Oak Tree faster and waited a little longer to brake at the end could easily see 150+. It was still pulling strong.
- the HUD in "M Mode" has a huge tachometer display, which was too big and distracting. Shame.
- The car runs at about 210° oil temp on the highway. On the track, the car knows that it's getting beat on, and oil temps are held down to about 190 (which is where they should be). It was in the mid-eighties and humid, and there were no concerns (from me) about overheating.
- I complain about the wonky steering, and on the street making small corrections, it sucks. On the track, it's just perfect, using the same comfort setting.
- I was in MDM mode, which I believe stands for M Dynamic Mode, which is reduced DSC intervention, but even so I got the rear loose enough that I had to let off the gas a few times. If I had not lifted a bit, I think I would have spun, although I suppose the car could have maybe caught it, but I didn't feel like finding out the limits of that mode.
- I checked the air pressures and tire tread frequently. The former held up at around 38 all around, and the wear was rolling over nicely, right about where they should be (i.e. not past the edge of tread).
- My car has the standard seats, and there were times that I wished I had either the carbon race seats or a proper 5-point harness. I was getting tossed around quite a bit. If you intend to track your car a lot, one or both options would be required. However, I will not be tracking this much more (those days are behind me) so I won't mess it up (reduce the livability factor) by changing anything.

I was absolutely gob-smacked at how awesome this car was on the track. If you look at my signature line below, you will see an M2, a few M5s and an M3 in there somewhere. I have tracked the M2 and an M5, multiple Porsches and Corvettes including a Z06, and an E36 race car. I've driven the M2,3,4,5 on the track at BMW's performance centers in both SC and CA, and I've driven the M8. The M5 and M8 are probably faster in most regards, but this car is still better. The M2 is an awesome little car, but it understeers more and is not nearly as liveable.

I liked the M4 before I went to VIR. I love it now.

The attached photo was clipped from the web site of the photographer (F&S Enterprises) but don't worry, I'm not ripping them off, I will order at least one real photo at full price.

Thanks for your review.

Do you prefer the M2C or the new M3C for driving dynamics and fun factor? Also how do you compare the steering in both the cars and the transmission?

I thought it would be good to ask someone who has spent a considerable amount of time in both.

Thanks in advance!

[Ghostriderf80]

"The M2 is an by awesome little car, but it understeers more and is not nearly as liveable. "

Exactly my thoughts. Thing is a vw golf. Worse car ever owned.

Very cool news about m3

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

Do you prefer the M2C or the new M3C for driving dynamics and fun factor? Also how do you compare the steering in both the cars and the transmission?

First, to clarify: I had an M2, not M2C. Second, I have an M4, not M3. Yeah, yeah, I know, same car. LOL Just wanted to mention it.

So...

The dynamics are different. The M2 is lighter, much more responsive due to the shorter wheelbase although the M3/M4 turns in much quicker. In the M2 you feel every little bump, paint line or shadow that you drive over. The M3/M4 is much more refined, much more composed and compliant. Better? Yes. An example:

On my way home, there is a mini-ramp from Road A to Road B. It's a slowish right turn, call it 20 MPH for a normal person in a normal car. So natch I take it at 45. It is off-camber, bumpy and has many pavement patches.

In the M2, the car literally bounces over the bad spots and can jump several inches over as it loses traction. In the M4, the car absorbs the bumps and never loses traction, and doesn't jump off of your line.

The shifter in the M2 is a bit tighter than in the M4. The spacing/positioning of the lever between gears, especially laterally, is much shorter. This is, I think we can all agree, a desirable trait. Not so close that you might miss the gate and hit the wrong gear, but in the M4 you'll look at the shifter in fifth and think, "wow, that sure is far away". It's not at all bad, but comparing the two, the M2 wins.

However, it loses in the clutch department. Sure, they are probably the same clutch and transmission and slave cylinder, but in the M2 the engine management cuts back the power significantly during an upshift, and it would be nearly 2 seconds after you let out the clutch, at WOT, that you would feel the engine surge forward as it reinstated power. The M4 does the same thing, but it's less dramatic, barely noticeable and if I hadn't of been so bugged by it in the M2 and watching for it, I'd likely not notice it at all.

Steering. It's gotten much better, but it's still not where it was in the hydraulic days. The M4 falls short on the street, noticeably in my car when steering the car back to straight after a turn. Or when making small adjustments on the highway. The M2 was marginally better, although I have to note that my car initially had a "jerky" feel to it that took 3 service visits and escalation within BMW customer service to get it resolved, requiring a replacement of the steering rack.

I think the feedback and "feel" of the steering in the M2 was superior. However, as noted above, the initial turn-in on the M4 is impressive and quite awe-inspiring.

Everything considered, and without reservation, I prefer the M4 over the M2.

[FrozenGT]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

We have had some good reviews and comments from participants here about their new M3/M4 cars. I thought I'd chime in as well, from a slightly different perspective.

I bought my car off the dealer lot in May. After the 1200 mile break-in service was done, and a few miles added on, I took it to Virginia International Raceway (VIR) for a brief HPDE with PCA. It was a nice day, temps in the mid-80s with high humidity. The car is a 2021 M4 with a manual transmission and the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, at around 32 PSI cold.

I am an experienced HPDE participant and former instructor. I did zero prep to the car. No race brake pads, no harness bar, no special brake cooling ducts, I didn't even flush the brake fluid since the car is so new. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Literally right off of the showroom floor. OK, I did torque the wheels and check air pressures and I put on a helmet.

• - The handling on this car is awesome, nearly neutral with a smidgen of understeer when you really push it hard. Communication through the front end is abysmal, you don't really feel the understeer as much as you realize that you're not making your line. If the rear gets loose, it's a little bit of a surprise but easy to catch. I'm probably more used to this because of all of my time in Corvettes, which aren't great about telling you anything.
• - brakes are phenomenal. You can adjust the force required (comfort or track) so I put it in track for the first session, but it was a little too sensitive and grabby, so I put it back to comfort, which just felt normal. On the street, sometimes it feels like I have to use more force than normal for a hard stop, but on the track it was just fine. The only one time I felt any fade was after I set a new top speed record (for me) and even then, the fade was minimal.
• - the power is absolutely insane. The gearing is perfect for VIR, plus there really is no RPM above 2K where you don't have buckets of torque. When I tried to use full throttle as I tracked out of turn 2, I would lose traction and scare the beejezus out of myself going into T3. OMG. Shifting out of fourth into fifth at 120 MPH still pushes you back in the seat. I saw 143 on the back straight, and a decent driver who would have gotten out of Oak Tree faster and waited a little longer to brake at the end could easily see 150+. It was still pulling strong.
• - the HUD in "M Mode" has a huge tachometer display, which was too big and distracting. Shame.
• - The car runs at about 210° oil temp on the highway. On the track, the car knows that it's getting beat on, and oil temps are held down to about 190 (which is where they should be). It was in the mid-eighties and humid, and there were no concerns (from me) about overheating.
• - I complain about the wonky steering, and on the street making small corrections, it sucks. On the track, it's just perfect, using the same comfort setting.
• - I was in MDM mode, which I believe stands for M Dynamic Mode, which is reduced DSC intervention, but even so I got the rear loose enough that I had to let off the gas a few times. If I had not lifted a bit, I think I would have spun, although I suppose the car could have maybe caught it, but I didn't feel like finding out the limits of that mode.
• - I checked the air pressures and tire tread frequently. The former held up at around 38 all around, and the wear was rolling over nicely, right about where they should be (i.e. not past the edge of tread).
• - My car has the standard seats, and there were times that I wished I had either the carbon race seats or a proper 5-point harness. I was getting tossed around quite a bit. If you intend to track your car a lot, one or both options would be required. However, I will not be tracking this much more (those days are behind me) so I won't mess it up (reduce the livability factor) by changing anything.

I was absolutely gob-smacked at how awesome this car was on the track. If you look at my signature line below, you will see an M2, a few M5s and an M3 in there somewhere. I have tracked the M2 and an M5, multiple Porsches and Corvettes including a Z06, and an E36 race car. I've driven the M2,3,4,5 on the track at BMW's performance centers in both SC and CA, and I've driven the M8. The M5 and M8 are probably faster in most regards, but this car is still better. The M2 is an awesome little car, but it understeers more and is not nearly as liveable.

I liked the M4 before I went to VIR. I love it now.

The attached photo was clipped from the web site of the photographer (F&S Enterprises) but don't worry, I'm not ripping them off, I will order at least one real photo at full price.

Congratulations Dude! Are you part of BMW CCA?

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

Congratulations Dude! Are you part of BMW CCA?

Thanks. Yes, proud member since 1995...

[Sedan_Clan]

Loved this write up!

[jvit27]

Good review, but it reaffirms my convictions that having all of these electronic settings available to the customer are a negative. 'SPORT' settings have been faithless to the driving experience since their inception (E46/E39) with it now having spread from throttle pedal to steering, dampers, and now braking!! Most people/reviews consistently lament how artificial modern calibrations feel and defer to comfort ___ simply because it is the least annoying option. BMW has traded good dynamics for gimmicks and it shows... why they offer so many adj. settings in lieu of just getting two modes dead-on-balls-accurate is beyond me.

There's just no excuse not to have EPS somewhat figured out by now. Glad you like your car -I really am- but it does kinda sound like you're a bit drunk with (horse)power

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jvit27

Good review, but it reaffirms my convictions that having all of these electronic settings available to the customer are a negative. 'SPORT' settings have been faithless to the driving experience since their inception (E46/E39) with it now having spread from throttle pedal to steering, dampers, and now braking!! Most people/reviews consistently lament how artificial modern calibrations feel and defer to comfort ___ simply because it is the least annoying option. BMW has traded good dynamics for gimmicks and it shows... why they offer so many adj. settings in lieu of just getting two modes dead-on-balls-accurate is beyond me.

There's just no excuse not to have EPS somewhat figured out by now. Glad you like your car -I really am- but it does kinda sound like you're a bit drunk with (horse)power

Not everybody has issues with the settings and EPS. The large majority of the cars competing in the segment have these same/similar settings. If BMW didn't offer them, the complainers would lament about why those cars had the options and the M3 didn't.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80

"The M2 is an by awesome little car, but it understeers more and is not nearly as liveable. "

Exactly my thoughts. Thing is a vw golf. Worse car ever owned.

Very cool news about m3

Now the M2 lovers can't say you're the only one who has an issue with the M2's understeer.

[M3 Number 86]

Nice review.

I think you have it backwards. If you didnt lift and full throttled, you wouldnt have spun. Lol

[jvit27]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Not everybody has issues with the settings and EPS. The large majority of the cars competing in the segment have these same/similar settings. If BMW didn't offer them, the complainers would lament about why those cars had the options and the M3 doesn't.

Fully agree with you. That's why I say it's gimmicky, and that is why modern BMW's are "the ultimate driving customers away machine". Cost-cutting and catering to complainers have diluted what was once the industry standard. OP himself said communication is abysmal and steering sucks on the street. So that basically tells me BMW learned nothing from the F chassis.

If you haven't gotten your Porsche yet, you'll soon share the same resentment as I lol. They just get the steering and throttle right and that's why they are not variable. It's what you expect from Germans. There are other less expensive manufacturers that do a better job too; even a $35k Civic Type R delivers on these points.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jvit27

Fully agree with you. That's why I say it's gimmicky, and that is why modern BMW's are "the ultimate driving customers away machine". Cost-cutting and catering to complainers have diluted what was once the industry standard. OP himself said communication is abysmal and steering sucks on the street. So that basically tells me BMW learned nothing from the F chassis.

If you haven't gotten your Porsche yet, you'll soon share the same resentment as I lol. They just get the steering and throttle right and that's why they are not variable. It's what you expect from Germans. There are other less expensive manufacturers that do a better job too; even a $35k Civic Type R delivers on these points.

The Porsche guys complain about 992 refinement too. It's the same arguments over there. Lol!

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by jvit27

They just get the steering and throttle right and that's why they are not variable.

?

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2...day-24385.html

Exhibit B:

https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/SKU991PSP.html

You've convinced yourself of a narrative that's divorced from reality.