[gpdriver17]

Something those of us on the F90 board realized a few weeks ago is that BMW limits the ZF8 transmissions to only perform 50 launches. So for those of you who care, the 0-60 times on these cars will likely increase by almost a half a second after you do 50 launches.

Just wanted to post this as a warning so you know to ration launch controls. I blew through all mine in the first 2 months of ownership and my 0-60 times went from 2.5 to 3.0 seconds and 1/4 mile times increased by 2-3 tenths as well.

In short, BMW is using this trick to falsely advertise the performance of their cars. The numbers in magazines are not what you'll see in the real world if you use it.

Source: https://www.xhpflashtool.com/blog/la...rol_explained/

"What the ZF 8-Speed Auto actually does in Launch Mode is to engage a different shift mode, which is only active when the aforementioned procedure is carried out. The characteristic of this mode can be described as "i-don't-care-about-my-clutches-mode". Yes, LC mode makes your transmission wear. Thats the reason, there is an undocumented limit of 50 launches built in to the ZF transmissions. After 50 launches the trans will silently never engage that mode again. How do we know that? Because we don't look at documentations, we reverse-engineer the transmission's code to understand whats going on inside. It's also that exact mode, that is added to pre-2013 cars, when they get flashed with xHP. Even if you have a BMW before Summer 2013, the flash with xHP will update the transmission to the most recent software, which has the LC routine built in. There's only one "downside": You won't see the flag in the dash still, as that flag is not triggered through the transmission. Eventually it can be activated on the older cars with some coding in other modules, but technically it does no difference, wether there is a flag or not."

[robopp]

This has been disproven in the X3MC forum. There are members with well over 50 launches and LC is still available.

[hockeygoalie35]

Man, I've seen this a few times, but I've definitely launched my F32 more than 50 times and still had LC (flag on the dash).

[mirob]

Originally Posted by robopp

This has been disproven in the X3MC forum. There are members with well over 50 launches and LC is still available.

Originally Posted by hockeygoalie35

Man, I've seen this a few times, but I've definitely launched my F32 more than 50 times and still had LC (flag on the dash).

You retain LC but you lose the hardcore shift algorithm that only lasts the first 50-100 launches.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by mirob

You retain LC but you lose the hardcore shift algorithm that only lasts the first 50-100 launches.

Again, there are X3M owners that say nothing changes after this hypothetical 50 launch limit.

[xmanpro]

Just get a new ride after 50.

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by robopp

Again, there are X3M owners that say nothing changes after this hypothetical 50 launch limit.

ONE owner said that. You're putting that against internal documentation from BMW, a TCU tuner, and countless others who have experienced this including myself. Yes my car still says "Launch Control Active" but it's slower and shifts are CLEARLY different than before.

I attached logs clearly showing the difference in shifts. The one where timing cuts on every shift is after launch control limit was reached.

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by mirob

You retain LC but you lose the hardcore shift algorithm that only lasts the first 50-100 launches.

This is exactly right. At first, shifts are seamless, you literally cannot feel/hear the shifts because they are so fast. After, you'll feel a delay with every shift.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

Something those of us on the F90 board realized a few weeks ago is that BMW limits the ZF8 transmissions to only perform 50 launches. So for those of you who care, the 0-60 times on these cars will likely increase by almost a half a second after you do 50 launches.

Just wanted to post this as a warning so you know to ration launch controls. I blew through all mine in the first 2 months of ownership and my 0-60 times went from 2.5 to 3.0 seconds and 1/4 mile times increased by 2-3 tenths as well.

In short, BMW is using this trick to falsely advertise the performance of their cars. The numbers in magazines are not what you'll see in the real world if you use it.

Source: https://www.xhpflashtool.com/blog/launch_control_explained/

"What the ZF 8-Speed Auto actually does in Launch Mode is to engage a different shift mode, which is only active when the aforementioned procedure is carried out. The characteristic of this mode can be described as "i-don't-care-about-my-clutches-mode". Yes, LC mode makes your transmission wear. Thats the reason, there is an undocumented limit of 50 launches built in to the ZF transmissions. After 50 launches the trans will silently never engage that mode again. How do we know that? Because we don't look at documentations, we reverse-engineer the transmission's code to understand whats going on inside. It's also that exact mode, that is added to pre-2013 cars, when they get flashed with xHP. Even if you have a BMW before Summer 2013, the flash with xHP will update the transmission to the most recent software, which has the LC routine built in. There's only one "downside": You won't see the flag in the dash still, as that flag is not triggered through the transmission. Eventually it can be activated on the older cars with some coding in other modules, but technically it does no difference, wether there is a flag or not."

Curious, have you engaged bmw on this topic?

On the surface I find this allegation unlikely due to 1) the general embarrassment of not fully backing their cars 2) M owners are picky and have means, so they would be exposing themselves to additional embarrassment from lawsuits. Whether some merit or frivolous they would still be exposed to the headline "BMW M owners sue because cars underperform" not exactly a PR position they would want to be in.

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by xlover

Curious, have you engaged bmw on this topic?

On the surface I find this allegation unlikely due to 1) the general embarrassment of not fully backing their cars 2) M owners are picky and have means, so they would be exposing themselves to additional embarrassment from lawsuits. Whether some merit or frivolous they would still be exposed to the headline "BMW M owners sue because cars underperform" not exactly a PR position they would want to be in.

A member on the M5 forum got BMW to admit it, but only verbally. Has owned 2 M5s and an M8 and agreed all of them after the first few months of ownership lost the launch.

I don't have the time or money to sue a company like BMW. A lot of people just don't care enough and it's difficult to actually prove. Although there is some internal documentation on it, I'll link here later if I can find it. My plan is just to sell the M5, stay away from BMW, and get a Tesla Plaid to go fast in a straight line. Seems easier than fighting BMW on this.

Heres the internal document:
https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=18642233

Edited to add link.

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

A member on the M5 forum got BMW to admit it, but only verbally. Has owned 2 M5s and an M8 and agreed all of them after the first few months of ownership lost the launch.

I don't have the time or money to sue a company like BMW. A lot of people just don't care enough and it's difficult to actually prove. Although there is some internal documentation on it, I'll link here later if I can find it. My plan is just to sell the M5, stay away from BMW, and get a Tesla Plaid to go fast in a straight line. Seems easier than fighting BMW on this.

Heres the internal document:
https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=18642233

Edited to add link.

Get a Tesla P100D

Get the optional unlimited launch subscription

[xlover]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

A member on the M5 forum got BMW to admit it, but only verbally. Has owned 2 M5s and an M8 and agreed all of them after the first few months of ownership lost the launch.

I don't have the time or money to sue a company like BMW. A lot of people just don't care enough and it's difficult to actually prove. Although there is some internal documentation on it, I'll link here later if I can find it. My plan is just to sell the M5, stay away from BMW, and get a Tesla Plaid to go fast in a straight line. Seems easier than fighting BMW on this.

Heres the internal document:
https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=18642233

Edited to add link.

I was not just thinking lawsuit, but if you or someone had BMW on paper, even an email to genius, denying it that would be fairly libelous for the company if it was not true. I assume someone has done that?

Interesting find on the technical document, though I am not sure personally I would take a 6 year old document for the front wheel drive based x1 as definitive proof the m5 (or the new M3) has the same limitation.

I suppose it proves bmw engineers are thinking about that concept. However, on the other hand they were comfortable sharing it in black in white for that particular model why not on every model affected.

Maybe M3 owners are a more rambunctious bunch but I suspect if true they will sort it out with BMW.

I am thinking about Ford's embarrassment with the early gt350s "track ready" claim but the proper cooling came in an optional package and owners cars without were not performing as expected on track... lawsuit and solid black eye for Ford performance. I would think this LC limitation, if true, would be on par with that.

[Transfer]

Who uses LC? Never once for me. It's just a party trick unless you're at the drag strip.

[bm323]

OP, thanks for the information. Please excuse forummers (who have decided to buy the G8X, fanboys or who plan or hope to buy the G8X) who may be butt-hurt over anything negative against the G8X and are highly defensively

[heavyD^2]

Over the decades I have been a parts of almost every automotive community and this is by far the most bipolar group of enthusiasts I have seen. When people were talking up the S58 and that it was going to be very fast in a straight line posters would say they don't care about fast 1/4 mile times (double digit thanks for one post) as if they wanted to win drag races they would get a GTR as that's not what these cars are about. Now we have people fear mongering that there may be a limit on the amount of times you can drag race this car. The constant changing of goalposts makes for a place where debbie downers run rampant as they aren't happy until they have made everyone as unhappy as they are. Never a dull moment I suppose as the plot twist make for lots of discussion.

[Scorp!on]

I mean what did you expect, if it is really limited ?
BMW has to ensure the Engine/Gearbox will withstand the wear.
If someone is Launching it 300 times and the gearbox blows he then goes to BMW bitching around they have to replace it.
Of course they protect the material...jesus this car is meant for everyone to drive around in normal streets, if you want to track it or do drag races with it i'm pretty sure you can code that out but then you will have to pay by yourself if it blows.

[EXE46]

in over 18 months in my RWD M340i I have yet to use LC so for me it's not a deal breaker. Lord knows I drive this thing hard as is already. LC on the streets just means drawing even more attention from guys like Sedan_Clan lol, no bueno.

[robopp]

I must be up around 40 launches so give me a couple of months and I'll let you know if anything changes past 50. I know with my RS3, it was limited to 200 launches and there was a counter you could read to see where you're at. Of course, tuning the TCU removed that limit.

[mirob]

I wonder if this is why BMW is so conservative with their acceleration claims.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Over the decades I have been a parts of almost every automotive community and this is by far the most bipolar group of enthusiasts I have seen. When people were talking up the S58 and that it was going to be very fast in a straight line posters would say they don't care about fast 1/4 mile times (double digit thanks for one post) as if they wanted to win drag races they would get a GTR as that's not what these cars are about. Now we have people fear mongering that there may be a limit on the amount of times you can drag race this car. The constant changing of goalposts makes for a place where debbie downers run rampant as they aren't happy until they have made everyone as unhappy as they are. Never a dull moment I suppose as the plot twist make for lots of discussion.

It's truly mind boggling. BMW has one of the most active yet self toxic communities in the auto realm.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Over the decades I have been a parts of almost every automotive community and this is by far the most bipolar group of enthusiasts I have seen.

It's a large, diverse community, and different members have different goals. As in any community, there are fringe members with unreasonable or contradictory expectations. And of course there will always be people who are just plain unpleasant and tend to thrive on negativity.

You can drag race a Mustang, you can road race a Mustang (and it has proven to be quite adept at either, I should add). Many people do one or the other, and some probably even do both. There's no reason why an M3 and M4 shouldn't be similarly versatile.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It's a large, diverse community, and different members have different goals. As in any community, there are fringe members with unreasonable or contradictory expectations. And of course there will always be people who are just plain unpleasant and tend to thrive on negativity.

You can drag race a Mustang, you can road race a Mustang (and it has proven to be quite adept at either, I should add). Many people do one or the other, and some probably even do both. There's no reason why an M3 and M4 shouldn't be similarly versatile.

I get that and I have no issue with how anyone wants to use their vehicles. It's just that there's constant negativity here from posters here whether they are living in the past and can't accept that all cars are bigger and heavier today, those that simply hate change, and those upset BMW didn't personally consult them when engineering and designing any of their upcoming vehicles. I'm a massive Raiders fan so I'm pretty well used to constant negativity in Raiders and other sports forums but this is easily the most negative car enthusiast forum I've been a part of. Not saying it's a bad place or anything as there's plenty of great posters and threads but man there's a lot of debbie downers that seem miserable.