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      01-11-2021, 09:56 AM   #1
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Performance and Weight. M3 and M4 - explained, Episode 01

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      01-11-2021, 10:15 AM   #2
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- “In part faster than an M4 GTS”. A bit vague.
- “Lightened crankshaft” vs what? X3M or S55?

Very nice to get a scale weight of the MT car and the confirmation of alu doors and hood.
Appreciate the effort to make this video even if the execution is a bit lacking in some areas.

Last edited by solstice; 01-11-2021 at 10:27 AM..
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      01-11-2021, 10:15 AM   #3
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Interesting comparison with the weights from the predecessor. Not sure if that was meant to be good or not.
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      01-11-2021, 10:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by am3r1ka View Post
Interesting comparison with the weights from the predecessor. Not sure if that was meant to be good or not.
If you are a weight purist get the MT and if you want performance get the competition. Interesting way to put it and explains a lot about the thought process behind this generation. I.e. weight matters less than resulting performance. Spend the budget and effort on performance for the competition even significant bracing etc. that add weight.
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      01-11-2021, 10:24 AM   #5
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From the video it seems like they compared a fully loaded DCT F82 with an almost base, stripper spec version of the G82. I would say the weight gain is probably in the range of 60-100 kilos base car to base car, which would put it slightly above the E9x in terms of weight.
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      01-11-2021, 10:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manettino View Post
From the video it seems like they compared a fully loaded DCT F82 with an almost base, stripper spec version of the G82. I would say the weight gain is probably in the range of 60-100 kilos base car to base car, which would put it slightly above the E9x in terms of weight.
The official numbers has the comp. car at 50lbs/22.7kg above the base car. So 1674 + 23 = 1697 kg vs 1640 kg for F82 comp.

57kg/125 lbs increase.

If you spec. a stripper with CF seats I’m sure. Still better than some feared.

Last edited by solstice; 01-11-2021 at 10:38 AM..
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      01-11-2021, 10:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by am3r1ka View Post
Interesting comparison with the weights from the predecessor. Not sure if that was meant to be good or not.
If you are a weight purist get the MT and if you want performance get the competition. Interesting way to put it and explains a lot about the thought process behind this generation. I.e. weight matters less than resulting performance. Spend the budget and effort on performance for the competition even significant bracing etc. that add weight.
We need to get you on the future videos to say these things bluntly.
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      01-11-2021, 10:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manettino View Post
From the video it seems like they compared a fully loaded DCT F82 with an almost base, stripper spec version of the G82. I would say the weight gain is probably in the range of 60-100 kilos base car to base car, which would put it slightly above the E9x in terms of weight.
The G82 looks to be full leather and cf bucket seats so it's probably a similar set up, option wise, to the F82 minus the transmission. About 75 lb difference between the two cars.
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      01-11-2021, 10:40 AM   #9
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Plus the red G82 M4 still had full leather... I'm sure that adds *some* weight to the car. I really wish the power tailgate wasn't included in the exec. package, or that the laser lights were separate from the exec. I really just want the lights and heated steering wheel.
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      01-11-2021, 10:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by am3r1ka View Post
Interesting comparison with the weights from the predecessor. Not sure if that was meant to be good or not.
If you are a weight purist get the MT and if you want performance get the competition. Interesting way to put it and explains a lot about the thought process behind this generation. I.e. weight matters less than resulting performance. Spend the budget and effort on performance for the competition even bracing etc. that add weight.
Perhaps I misunderstood your post. But AFAIK both base and Comp models have the same chassis bracing that he talked about in the video.

I actually got the impression that weight was a big factor and that weight reduction measures was important also for this model. Considering how it has grown in size it was quite impressive that you can get a version only 34kg heavier than a F82.
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      01-11-2021, 10:49 AM   #11
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We've had a ton of discussion on the overall weight of the G80/G82 and concerns that this is approaching F90 M5 terriroty! BMW ///M division finally released this video to explain and compare against the F80/F82.

I'll let our other forum experts analyze how much the ZF8 and/or AWD will add.

Overall I think this address most of our concerns!
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      01-11-2021, 10:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Perhaps I misunderstood your post. But AFAIK both base and Comp models have the same chassis bracing that he talked about in the video.

I actually got the impression that weight was a big factor and that weight reduction measures was important also for this model. Considering how it has grown in size it was quite impressive that you can get a version only 34kg heavier than a F82.
You misunderstood that part since here I was vague reading it again. That was meant for the overall G8X strategy. Performance efforts trumps minimum weight efforts.

However a 125 lbs generational increase comp. to comp. is IMO still a good effort and should ease the mind of a few dooms day members talking 250 lbs plus increase.
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      01-11-2021, 10:54 AM   #13
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Surprising revelation here. <100 lbs weight increase although G82 with carbon buckets and manual transmission vs the F82 DCT. The G82 is a much larger and more capable car so this actually seems acceptable for the class.

I think we can extrapolate some here and add a smidge over 200 lbs for 8AT and xDrive meaning a G82 comp xDrive will weigh right about 3900 lbs with full tank of gas.
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      01-11-2021, 11:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Perhaps I misunderstood your post. But AFAIK both base and Comp models have the same chassis bracing that he talked about in the video.

I actually got the impression that weight was a big factor and that weight reduction measures was important also for this model. Considering how it has grown in size it was quite impressive that you can get a version only 34kg heavier than a F82.
You misunderstood that part since here I was vague reading it again. That was meant for the overall G8X strategy. Performance efforts trumps minimum weight efforts.

However a 125 lbs generational increase comp. to comp. is IMO still a good effort and should ease the mind of a few dooms day members talking 250 lbs plus increase.
Agreed on the weight increase. Kind of back to E9x weights in a larger car with loads more mandatory safety equipment and more advanced ICE.
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      01-11-2021, 11:13 AM   #15
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I'm glad we're (hopefully) starting to get some technical material from AG.

From the video:

F82 Comp DCT on 20", likely fully loaded; 1,640 kg
G82 RWD 6MT, 19/20", CF seats, full leather; 1,674 kg
Full tank, which means ca. 59 litres for both vehicles.

According to the data from the press release, a base German-spec 6MT G82 M4 weighs 1,700 kg (DIN, i.e. all fluids, 90% tank). Such car has basic LEDs, HiFi audio, memory seats, 18/19" rims, acoustic glass

Base 2018+ 6MT F82 is 1,570 kg; DCT-equipped is 1,595 kg (DIN). Such car had adaptive LEDs, HiFi audio, electric cloth seats, 18" rims, no DDC, no CF driveshaft.

My maths sucks, but if we compare apples to apples and calculate a DIN weight with empty fuel tank, then their F82 in the video would be approx. 1,596 kg and the G82 1,630 kg.

Base F82 6MT 1,530 kg; F82 DCT 1,555 kg
Base G82 6MT 1,660 kg; G82 Comp 1,685 kg, again all DIN w/o fuel.

Add ca. 10 kg for the standard seats and you're at 1,64x kg. None of the G82 numbers add up. How is this optioned-out car lighter than a supposedly stripper model used for certification... Can't trust them manufacturers with these figures.

Also, I'd like to find out the weight difference between the Getrag M-DCT and ZF 8HP. And no Al fenders on the new car?

All in all, though, a lightweight 6MT G82 is still heavier than a loaded DCT F82.
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      01-11-2021, 11:15 AM   #16
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Pleasantly surprised here... seeing how much more tire this new G chassis can fit seems like it will be an impressive track weapon after all!
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      01-11-2021, 11:23 AM   #17
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The G82 shown with MT weighs 3,690 lbs. If I add 55 lbs. for the Comp with AT, 22 lbs. for the standard seats, and 20 lbs. for iron brakes, the total is 3,787 lbs. About 80 lbs. more than my current F32 440i with AT. Given the greatly increased power, and better handling, I can work with that.
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      01-11-2021, 11:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
I'm glad we're (hopefully) starting to get some technical material from AG.

From the video:

F82 Comp DCT on 20", likely fully loaded; 1,640 kg
G82 RWD 6MT, 19/20", CF seats, full leather; 1,674 kg
Full tank, which means ca. 59 litres for both vehicles.

According to the data from the press release, a base German-spec 6MT G82 M4 weighs 1,700 kg (DIN, i.e. all fluids, 90% tank). Such car has basic LEDs, HiFi audio, memory seats, 18/19" rims, acoustic glass

Base 2018+ 6MT F82 is 1,570 kg; DCT-equipped is 1,595 kg (DIN). Such car had adaptive LEDs, HiFi audio, electric cloth seats, 18" rims, no DDC, no CF driveshaft.

My maths sucks, but if we compare apples to apples and calculate a DIN weight with empty fuel tank, then their F82 in the video would be approx. 1,596 kg and the G82 1,630 kg.

Base F82 6MT 1,530 kg; F82 DCT 1,555 kg
Base G82 6MT 1,660 kg; G82 Comp 1,685 kg, again all DIN w/o fuel.

Add ca. 10 kg for the standard seats and you're at 1,64x kg. None of the G82 numbers add up. How is this optioned-out car lighter than a supposedly stripper model used for certification... Can't trust them manufacturers with these figures.

Also, I'd like to find out the weight difference between the Getrag M-DCT and ZF 8HP. And no Al fenders on the new car?

All in all, though, a lightweight 6MT G82 is still heavier than a loaded DCT F82.
This is the problem time after time when using euro weight standard numbers, we run into a mess. Now we have the two cars side by side using the same standard on a scale. Time to accept that as the bases IMO.
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      01-11-2021, 11:35 AM   #19
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Very cool I saw these on their instagram stories today.. its like they read these forums and address the elephant in the room first LOL

not sure if applicable, but i found the C&D testing of LCI F30 340 manual vs awd auto and they had the weight diff down to ~120lb or 55kg

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...i-test-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/

same comparison for F82 manual vs DCT they tested the weight to be 50lb diff fwiw
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      01-11-2021, 11:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
This is the problem time after time when using euro weight standard numbers, we run into a mess. Now we have the two cars side by side using the same standard on a scale. Time to accept that as the bases IMO.
The EU weight is a good base. Problem is when DIN-weights are tossed around as being the same as EU weights/different to EU weights. DIN used to be without driver (and depending on regulation also used to be dry weight, ie no fluids). Today EU and DIN have the same definition on curb/kerb weight (mass in running order).

The US curb weight is almost impossible to determine which version of the car the weight refers to as that requires the inclusion of optional equipment the manufacturer expects more than 33% of the cars to be sold with...

We had a long, in detail, thread on curb weights back when the F8x was at the same stage as the G8x is now.

US Curb and EU Kerb weights, an attempt at clarifying the differences. https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=919364

Last edited by Boss330; 01-11-2021 at 11:58 AM..
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      01-11-2021, 11:45 AM   #21
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Some notes & quotes:

This is Episode 1 of the series, focused on Performance & Weight.

Quotes:

- "the new cars will exceed all [performance] expectations"
- "the M4 is a lot faster than its predecessor"
- "and with cup tires in part faster than the legendary BMW M4 GTS"
- "stiffened the bodywok locally both at the front and the rear" and these "measures represent a good weight investment"
- "crankshaft [weight reduced by] 1.5kg which is in turn reflected in the response"
- "M carbon bucket seats [...] 10kg less than the M Sports seats [for the pair]"
- "Reduced the sound insulation to a minimum"

Now we need to know the weight increase of ZF8 vs. Manual so we can compare the G82 Competition weight vs. F82 Competition weight (like-for-like).
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      01-11-2021, 11:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
I'm glad we're (hopefully) starting to get some technical material from AG.

From the video:

F82 Comp DCT on 20", likely fully loaded; 1,640 kg
G82 RWD 6MT, 19/20", CF seats, full leather; 1,674 kg
Full tank, which means ca. 59 litres for both vehicles.

According to the data from the press release, a base German-spec 6MT G82 M4 weighs 1,700 kg (DIN, i.e. all fluids, 90% tank). Such car has basic LEDs, HiFi audio, memory seats, 18/19" rims, acoustic glass

Base 2018+ 6MT F82 is 1,570 kg; DCT-equipped is 1,595 kg (DIN). Such car had adaptive LEDs, HiFi audio, electric cloth seats, 18" rims, no DDC, no CF driveshaft.

My maths sucks, but if we compare apples to apples and calculate a DIN weight with empty fuel tank, then their F82 in the video would be approx. 1,596 kg and the G82 1,630 kg.

Base F82 6MT 1,530 kg; F82 DCT 1,555 kg
Base G82 6MT 1,660 kg; G82 Comp 1,685 kg, again all DIN w/o fuel.

Add ca. 10 kg for the standard seats and you're at 1,64x kg. None of the G82 numbers add up. How is this optioned-out car lighter than a supposedly stripper model used for certification... Can't trust them manufacturers with these figures.

Also, I'd like to find out the weight difference between the Getrag M-DCT and ZF 8HP. And no Al fenders on the new car?

All in all, though, a lightweight 6MT G82 is still heavier than a loaded DCT F82.
DIN weight is with 90% fuel, no driver and no luggage...

US curb weights are a bit more complex.

In depth look on curb weights in this thread back from when the F8x was being introduced:


US Curb and EU Kerb weights, an attempt at clarifying the differences. https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=919364


From commission regulation (EU) 1230/2012 on masses and dimensions:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...02&from=EN

Quote:
(2) 'standard equipment' means the basic configuration of a vehicle
which is equipped with all the features that are required under the
regulatory acts referred to in Annex IV and Annex XI to Directive
2007/46/EC, including all features that are fitted without giving
rise to any further specifications on configuration or equipment
level;

(3) 'optional equipment' means all the features not included in the
standard equipment which are fitted to a vehicle under the responsibility of the manufacturer that can be ordered by the customer;

(4) 'mass in running order' means
(a) in the case of a motor vehicle:
the mass of the vehicle, with its fuel tank(s) filled to at least
90 % of its or their capacity/ies, including the mass of the
driver, of the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard
equipment in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork,
the cabin, the coupling and the spare wheel(s) as well as the
tools;
This means that the EU curb weight is with all std equipment, but not any optional equipment.

So a base M3/4 curb weight in EU is heavier than if you spec optional CF bucket seats and CCB. So in the case of the M3/4, adding options can actually decrease the stated (EU) curb weight. Which is what we probably saw in the video.
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