[Sam111]

No I dont have photos. Mechanic told me there was quite bit of it inside the rotor etc.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by Sam111

No I dont have photos. Mechanic told me there was quite bit of it inside the rotor etc.

I just ordered the Endless CCB pads, they are available and will cost me about 1000 euro. Should get them next week. Appreciate the info - I don't think I would find those otherwise.

Here's what my rotors look like, you can see a bit of brake dust in the holes. Obviously, I will have them clean it but it's not dramatic. I am guessing you had more, since you said your whole pad was basically gone?

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by beamlord

If we are talking about just the hygroscopic property of brake fluid, it's at a rate of 1.5% per year so changing it every 6 month is simply an overkill. You are doing it because you regularly track the car and if you overheat the fluid there's going to be a risk of boiling of those few % of water.
On the NS you don't normally overheat the brake fluid if you do single laps with subsequent cooldown. Unless you are completely clueless, but then no amount of fresh brake fluid is going to help you. This is a very special track and it doesn't forgive incompetent driving style.

It's actually closer to 2% and at higher than 3.7% the boiling point of the fluid drops measurably meaning your brake fluid will boil and a much lower "wet" temp. Yes, it is overkill for street driving conditions as the brakes are a) not typically used in threshold conditions and b) there are long periods of cooling off. At much higher temps under heavy braking the rapid temp increase and cooling in the system also causes condensation which accelerates the buildup of water. I guess if you do one lap and then cooldown for a long period it may be manageable. I would still not prefer to leave that to chance for $250.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

It's actually closer to 2% and at higher than 3.7% the boiling point of the fluid drops measurably meaning your brake fluid will boil and a much lower "wet" temp. Yes, it is overkill for street driving conditions as the brakes are a) not typically used in threshold conditions and b) there are long periods of cooling off. At much higher temps under heavy braking the rapid temp increase and cooling in the system also causes condensation which accelerates the buildup of water. I guess if you do one lap and then cooldown for a long period it may be manageable. I would still not prefer to leave that to chance for $250.

I don't think we disagree in any of the points. I am actually planning on swapping the brake fluid to SRF anyway, but not now - the car is brand new and it's been 1 month. At the moment I will just swap the pads.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Email from Girodisc below. These are great rotors for those who aren't familiar. I use them on my F80 and this would be a day 1 mod when the time comes for me to join you G8x guys.

We are currently in the prototype phase for our G8X rotors – both for iron direct replacement, and for converting carbon ceramics to iron. If you’re interested, I can add you to my list of people we will be reaching out to when they’re ready. Let me know, thanks!

[Sam111]

Originally Posted by beamlord

I just ordered the Endless CCB pads, they are available and will cost me about 1000 euro. Should get them next week. Appreciate the info - I don't think I would find those otherwise.

Here's what my rotors look like, you can see a bit of brake dust in the holes. Obviously, I will have them clean it but it's not dramatic. I am guessing you had more, since you said your whole pad was basically gone?

Yes, a lot worse .
We were pushing the car to the limit on a short circuit. A few laps were driven by a pro racer that got really close (within 1s) to a time that is driven by good 991 GT3 drivers. I am not sure that would be possible without CCBs. But pads took the beating. Here you can see the old pads, and new endless.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by Sam111

Yes, a lot worse .
We were pushing the car to the limit on a short circuit. A few laps were driven by a pro racer that got really close (within 1s) to a time that is driven by good 991 GT3 drivers. I am not sure that would be possible without CCBs. But pads took the beating. Here you can see the old pads, and new endless.

Holy mother of stopping power. Those pads look crispy

I am really looking forward to the Endless pads, just got another confirmation should be delivered next week. Do they fit the stock pad wear sensor btw?
Also, did you have squeaking (past bedding in) on them?
For now I went with front pads only.

[Sam111]

Those are only fronts. I also ordered fronts only. No/minimal sqeaking, pad sensors shouldn't be an issue.

Rears do not work that hard on this car.
It is a shame to have such caliper on the rear isn't it? Those 4piston rear calipers on F8x looked much better..

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by Sam111

Those are only fronts. I also ordered fronts only. No/minimal sqeaking, pad sensors shouldn't be an issue.

Rears do not work that hard on this car.
It is a shame to have such caliper on the rear isn't it? Those 4piston rear calipers on F8x looked much better..

The rears are flimsy, also the paint quality for some reason is just awful and that's on all cars (also non-CCB ones).

Thanks for all the info man, you really helped me quickly identify the right pads and order them all within a few days.
The dealer said they will include the bedding-in procedure. I assume you did it, before going on track?

[PLF69]

I bet in a few weeks/months this thread will be full of posts about having to replace CCB discs/rotors 😅

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I bet in a few weeks/months this thread will be full of posts about having to replace CCB discs/rotors 😅

Assuming a top-tier brand like Endless would provide a product that damages the car is a very bold statement. Any reasons for that?

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Assuming a top-tier brand like Endless would provide a product that damages the car is a very bold statement. Any reasons for that?

The reason for that is probably the numerous examples of people using this type of CCBs on track and destroying the rotors.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Ximian

The reason for that is probably the numerous examples of people using this type of CCBs on track and destroying the rotors.

Seriously? I haven't heard many frankly.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by Ximian

The reason for that is probably the numerous examples of people using this type of CCBs on track and destroying the rotors.

Now that is some next level generalization. Any facts?

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by FTS

Seriously? I haven't heard many frankly.

There's this post from Jeff Bezos earlier in the thread - https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...72&postcount=7

But the reason you don't hear more about it is because most people who have CCBs don't track their cars. There are some CCB options from Brembo meant for racing but those are in the 15-20k price range for earlier generation M cars and I can't even find them any more.

Seems most people understand that CCBs are for low dust and street longevity while standard rotors are the better option financially for the track.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by Ximian

There's this post from Jeff Bezos earlier in the thread - https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...72&postcount=7

But the reason you don't hear more about it is because most people who have CCBs don't track their cars. There are some CCB options from Brembo meant for racing but those are in the 15-20k price range for earlier generation M cars and I can't even find them any more.

Seems most people understand that CCBs are for low dust and street longevity while standard rotors are the better option financially for the track.

CCBS are the best of the best but the running cost is up there with the cost of the kit. I see many guys with McLaren's and Porsche swapping to steel at the track because rotors are toast in HPDE full day sessions environment. If you go to the track 1-2 times a year for a half day it won't be a problem.

[Ximian]

Additional reading:

https://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us...ke-Conversion/
https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...tter-than-iron
https://www.rebrake.de/en/refurbishm...c-brake-discs/
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/03/wa...for-track-use/

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by Ximian

There's this post from Jeff Bezos earlier in the thread - https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...72&postcount=7

But the reason you don't hear more about it is because most people who have CCBs don't track their cars. There are some CCB options from Brembo meant for racing but those are in the 15-20k price range for earlier generation M cars and I can't even find them any more.

Seems most people understand that CCBs are for low dust and street longevity while standard rotors are the better option financially for the track.

That's far fetched. A ton of people race their cars with CCBs including Porsches and McLarens, but also M cars, on any given weekend at the track I see dozens of those.

They are great for several reasons, especially on track.

The one main factor is, they are more expensive on running costs in the LONG run. Obviously, they are also more of a headache than steel brakes so yes, for hardcore track use, anyone sane enough would take/swap for iron brakes.

For my particular purposes, i.e. occasional tourist drives on NS ceramic brakes have far more advantages. I get best of both worlds, clean wheels, excellent performance (and gorgeous looks).

In both cases, neither steel nor CCBs run well on stock pads and we all have to replace them, so that is a weird argument to make.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by PLF69

CCBS are the best of the best but the running cost is up there with the cost of the kit. I see many guys with McLaren's and Porsche swapping to steel at the track because rotors are toast in HPDE full day sessions environment. If you go to the track 1-2 times a year for a half day it won't be a problem.

And, this.

[FTS]

I have seen many Porsche running CCBs on track. I ran my F82 M4 with CCBs for two years on track, never changed rotors and wear was absolutely minimal. During the same time, I changed four front pads and two rears.

Replacement costs are high, without a doubt, but replacing them with iron rotors is a great option. So the word "destroying" rotors on track is a gross exaggeration IMO.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by FTS

I have seen many Porsche running CCBs on track. I ran my F82 M4 with CCBs for two years on track, never changed rotors and wear was absolutely minimal. During the same time, I changed four front pads and two rears.

Replacement costs are high, without a doubt, but replacing them with iron rotors is a great option. So the word "destroying" rotors on track is a gross exaggeration IMO.

See, that's the kind of experiential info and facts I appreciate. Much better than (usually, those who never had CCBs) screaming about hypothetically destroyed rotors.

Coincidentally, never heard around NS (the most visited track in the world) about a rotor destroyed on track.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by Sam111

Those are only fronts. I also ordered fronts only. No/minimal sqeaking, pad sensors shouldn't be an issue.

Rears do not work that hard on this car.
It is a shame to have such caliper on the rear isn't it? Those 4piston rear calipers on F8x looked much better..

Got the Endless CCDA pads on today. By the way, mine are EIP289, not EIP328 (the latter have a slightly smaller surface). The EIP289 had identical dimensions and surface area to my stock pads.

I did a half-assed bedding in initially, which was just 10-15 stops from 60ish to 20ish, couldn't do more at that moment.
After that I had a long trip on autobahn so not much braking.

That being said, they started to squeak lightly at lower speed braking, but otherwise perform fine so far.

Looking at the rotors though, I don't see good brake pad transfer, rather a few quite sharp concentric lines which is definitely not right.

I hope some harder bedding in will settle this?