[beamlord]

Anyone with extensive tracking experience with CCBs?

First 3 days of Nürburgring and I realize the disadvantages. Mainly because this car is too heavy. The brakes get too hot and the pads smear. After 15 minutes fast laps the brakes started to groan. Braking performance is still great but don't think it's sustainable.

Wondering if anyone tried Pagid RSC1 pads?

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Anyone with extensive tracking experience with CCBs?

First 3 days of Nürburgring and I realize the disadvantages. Mainly because this car is too heavy. The brakes get too hot and the pads smear. After 15 minutes fast laps the brakes started to groan. Braking performance is still great but don't think it's sustainable.

Wondering if anyone tried Pagid RSC1 pads?

CCBS have execptionnal performance but if you run them over a certain temperature the carbon fibers will burn inside the disc, they will still work but the pads will wear super fast and at some point it can be dangerous. It's best to track only a few times per year and maybe only half days or shorter sessions with more cooldown laps or if you have infinite budget just be prepared with the running cost.

Unfortunately I am guessing the Nurburgring with its very long configuration is bound to be a CCBS killer.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by PLF69

CCBS have execptionnal performance but if you run them over a certain temperature the carbon fibers will burn inside the disc, they will still work but the pads will wear super fast and at some point it can be dangerous. It's best to track only a few times per year and maybe only half days or shorter sessions with more cooldown laps or if you have infinite budget just be prepared with the running cost.

Unfortunately I am guessing the Nurburgring with its very long configuration is bound to be a CCBS killer.

Correct. A car this heavy, on CCBS, is definitely not meant to track extensively. I just experienced it after a few laps on Nürburgring Nordschleife and then just one stint at the GP track.

However, I would still feel more comfortable with higher heat resistant pads, so hope someone has tried those out.
I would still not track the car extensively, of course.

[FSECorey]

there is little to no point running CCB on the track.
pads are harder to get. more running cost. the stopping power is there but not amazing.
rotors are very expensive to replace depends on how you drive and skill level.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Correct. A car this heavy, on CCBS, is definitely not meant to track extensively. I just experienced it after a few laps on Nürburgring Nordschleife and then just one stint at the GP track.

However, I would still feel more comfortable with higher heat resistant pads, so hope someone has tried those out.
I would still not track the car extensively, of course.

I see this happening to lightweight McLaren's at the track too, it's just the nature of the the thing, it's a superior product in pretty much every situation except endurance in very hard usage.. It just takes more time to get there in lighter cars.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by FSECorey

there is little to no point running CCB on the track.
pads are harder to get. more running cost. the stopping power is there but not amazing.
rotors are very expensive to replace depends on how you drive and skill level.

Disagree on one point, stopping power is FAR more superior to standard brakes, primarily because of its consistency, not because it stops much faster - but consistently, and there is no fading.

Everyone knows what happens with iron stock brakes after first 10-15 minutes, you have to continuously adjust your braking points because they start to behave differently.

The main point is financially unsustainable, so yes - a few laps on Nordschleife per month is maximum I will do with this car.
And I will avoid any GP circuits, especially Zandvoort with a lot of braking and next to none cooling.

[FSECorey]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Disagree on one point, stopping power is FAR more superior to standard brakes, primarily because of its consistency, not because it stops much faster - but consistently, and there is no fading.

Everyone knows what happens with iron stock brakes after first 10-15 minutes, you have to continuously adjust your braking points because they start to behave differently.

The main point is financially unsustainable, so yes - a few laps on Nordschleife per month is maximum I will do with this car.
And I will avoid any GP circuits, especially Zandvoort with a lot of braking and next to none cooling.

I used 16 set of carbon ceramic brakes on my 675lt When there is no iron brake option available with pagid RSC1. let alone other cars that I drove intensively on the track. the only point you might argue and get away with it is the weight.
with proper brake compound and cooling. iron rotor last way longer. and the brake feeling is consistent. often time, brake failure cased by brake fluid boil, without proper cooling, CCB or iron rotor brake will over heat no matter what.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Anyone with extensive tracking experience with CCBs?

First 3 days of Nürburgring and I realize the disadvantages. Mainly because this car is too heavy. The brakes get too hot and the pads smear. After 15 minutes fast laps the brakes started to groan. Braking performance is still great but don't think it's sustainable.

Wondering if anyone tried Pagid RSC1 pads?

Couple things to improve are you opening air ducts for the brakes for additional cooling?

Secondly you can get https://www.speedengineering.de/prod...2-komplettset/ which will provide more direct cooling.

Like others have said CCBs are cost prohibited for track work. Better to use steels

Any brakes on track can be killed in a days work...

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Couple things to improve are you opening air ducts for the brakes for additional cooling?

Secondly you can get https://www.speedengineering.de/prod...2-komplettset/ which will provide more direct cooling.

Like others have said CCBs are cost prohibited for track work. Better to use steels

Any brakes on track can be killed in a days work...

Yes, ducts open. The brakes worked fine, even marvelously, so the only drawback is longevity and costs obviously.

It's a nice looking kit by the way. Could be very well worth getting, regardless.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Yes, ducts open. The brakes worked fine, even marvelously, so the only drawback is longevity and costs obviously.

It's a nice looking kit by the way. Could be very well worth getting, regardless.

Someone should develop carbon-carbon brakes similar to what is on a 787 and fit them on cars.

The warranty would be lifetime no holds bars with a vomit bag.

[Sam111]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Yes, ducts open. The brakes worked fine, even marvelously, so the only drawback is longevity and costs obviously.

It's a nice looking kit by the way. Could be very well worth getting, regardless.

Hi beamlord,
I might have some tips for you as I experienced something similar. This is my first post so bear with me..

On my first trackday CCBs worked great just like you mentioned, but I completely destroyed/smeared front OEM brake pads and had to clean the rotor from the inside + holes etc.. (those pads certainly cannot take a lot of heat, the pad might even be burning at some point if you drive real hard on short tracks, my mechanic said he saw burned paint inside the caliper)

Before my second trackday which happened today, I installed:
- the cooling kit from speed engineering that is mentioned above. It does not fit perfectly to Xdrive car with ceramics, as it had been created for RWD with steel. My mechanic had to cut a bit of plastic etc. but managed to fit it. Other option is to get it custom made, but this is doable for now.
- Endless CCD attack brake pads for front. It is a bit of pain to get them, as many dealers of Endless dont even know that Endless manufacture this ceramic compound for G82 M4, but they do. Just one of 3 dealers managed to secure them, so dont get discouraged.. Code for the pads is: EIP328CCDA if you are interested. They might make even more aggresive compound called EIP328CCDR
but I am not sure.
- steel brake lines

And the result is very good. They run a lot cooler. After cooldown lap brakes are not hot at all. Braking is extremely good, no fade. This pad works very well and does not smear, rotor looks a lot better after trackday than with OEM pad. I still have majority of pad in place, which is pleasant to see after the OEM dissapeared ..

I am convinced that with this combination, the life of rotors will be longer, and we can enjoy the benefits of CCBs and decrease their drawbacks a bit. FYI, One EU/UK website also offers replacement rotors for about 2700€ per piece (here)

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by Sam111

Hi beamlord,
I might have some tips for you as I experienced something similar. This is my first post so bear with me..

On my first trackday CCBs worked great just like you mentioned, but I completely destroyed/smeared front OEM brake pads and had to clean the rotor from the inside + holes etc.. (those pads certainly cannot take a lot of heat, the pad might even be burning at some point if you drive real hard on short tracks, my mechanic said he saw burned paint inside the caliper)

Before my second trackday which happened today, I installed:
- the cooling kit from speed engineering that is mentioned above. It does not fit perfectly to Xdrive car with ceramics, as it had been created for RWD with steel. My mechanic had to cut a bit of plastic etc. but managed to fit it. Other option is to get it custom made, but this is doable for now.
- Endless CCD attack brake pads for front. It is a bit of pain to get them, as many dealers of Endless dont even know that Endless manufacture this ceramic compound for G82 M4, but they do. Just one of 3 dealers managed to secure them, so dont get discouraged.. Code for the pads is: EIP328CCDA if you are interested. They might make even more aggresive compound called EIP328CCDR
but I am not sure.
- steel brake lines

And the result is very good. They run a lot cooler. After cooldown lap brakes are not hot at all. Braking is extremely good, no fade. This pad works very well and does not smear, rotor looks a lot better after trackday than with OEM pad. I still have majority of pad in place, which is pleasant to see after the OEM dissapeared ..

I am convinced that with this combination, the life of rotors will be longer, and we can enjoy the benefits of CCBs and decrease their drawbacks a bit. FYI, One EU/UK website also offers replacement rotors for about 2700€ per piece (here)

Awesome info, thanks. Did not know about Endless ccb pads.
Sounds like that is what I need. Basically, for moderate track use, I should be find with just the pads.
I second the fact that the stock pads are the ultimate culprit and run very hot.

[1209582]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Correct. A car this heavy, on CCBS, is definitely not meant to track extensively. I just experienced it after a few laps on Nürburgring Nordschleife and then just one stint at the GP track.

However, I would still feel more comfortable with higher heat resistant pads, so hope someone has tried those out.
I would still not track the car extensively, of course.

do you have any clips of your laps on the nurburgring?

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by Sam111

Hi beamlord,
I might have some tips for you as I experienced something similar. This is my first post so bear with me..

On my first trackday CCBs worked great just like you mentioned, but I completely destroyed/smeared front OEM brake pads and had to clean the rotor from the inside + holes etc.. (those pads certainly cannot take a lot of heat, the pad might even be burning at some point if you drive real hard on short tracks, my mechanic said he saw burned paint inside the caliper)

Before my second trackday which happened today, I installed:
- the cooling kit from speed engineering that is mentioned above. It does not fit perfectly to Xdrive car with ceramics, as it had been created for RWD with steel. My mechanic had to cut a bit of plastic etc. but managed to fit it. Other option is to get it custom made, but this is doable for now.
- Endless CCD attack brake pads for front. It is a bit of pain to get them, as many dealers of Endless dont even know that Endless manufacture this ceramic compound for G82 M4, but they do. Just one of 3 dealers managed to secure them, so dont get discouraged.. Code for the pads is: EIP328CCDA if you are interested. They might make even more aggresive compound called EIP328CCDR
but I am not sure.
- steel brake lines

And the result is very good. They run a lot cooler. After cooldown lap brakes are not hot at all. Braking is extremely good, no fade. This pad works very well and does not smear, rotor looks a lot better after trackday than with OEM pad. I still have majority of pad in place, which is pleasant to see after the OEM dissapeared ..

I am convinced that with this combination, the life of rotors will be longer, and we can enjoy the benefits of CCBs and decrease their drawbacks a bit. FYI, One EU/UK website also offers replacement rotors for about 2700€ per piece (here)

Also, anything specific or special when changing the pads on g80 ccb? Or it's as straightforward as regular brake pads change.

I read here that bleeding is a pain, but I am not going to replace braking liquid. I feel that better pads are going to be plenty for my purposes.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by 1209582

do you have any clips of your laps on the nurburgring?

Nope, not there yet. But there should be some clips of way better drivers with g80 on Nordschleife on youtube. Mischa Charoudin drove a g80 on Nürburgring, for example.

I don't think my laps would be meaningful as I am far from a Nürburgring expert and still learning at a bit over 100 laps.

[1209582]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Nope, not there yet. But there should be some clips of way better drivers with g80 on Nordschleife on youtube. Mischa Charoudin drove a g80 on Nürburgring, for example.

I don't think my laps would be meaningful as I am far from a Nürburgring expert and still learning at a bit over 100 laps.

its cool seeing misha's laps, but id rather see another member's onboard footage.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by beamlord

I read here that bleeding is a pain, but I am not going to replace braking liquid. I feel that better pads are going to be plenty for my purposes.

Brake fluid is going to absorb water over time regardless of the pads. It also is going to boil if the brakes get hot enough - and the more water in the fluid, the lower the boiling point.

You absolutely need to flush the brake fluid at a minimum of every 6 months if you are going to track your car monthly. If you only do one or two events a year, then you're probably OK with an annual brake bleed, preferably right before an event so that it's fresh.

If you can afford to buy this car and can afford to run it on the track, then you can afford to have the brakes bled by a shop with the proper equipment.

Don't get cheap when it comes to tires and brakes.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Brake fluid is going to absorb water over time regardless of the pads. It also is going to boil if the brakes get hot enough - and the more water in the fluid, the lower the boiling point.

You absolutely need to flush the brake fluid at a minimum of every 6 months if you are going to track your car monthly. If you only do one or two events a year, then you're probably OK with an annual brake bleed, preferably right before an event so that it's fresh.

If you can afford to buy this car and can afford to run it on the track, then you can afford to have the brakes bled by a shop with the proper equipment.

Don't get cheap when it comes to tires and brakes.

I don't do any work on my cars...Not because I am overly rich but because I can't. So that's beyond the point.

I track my m2c for years with brake fluid change every 2 years which works fine. Don't forget we're talking about Nürburgring Nordschleife and not a GP track. If you generally know what you're doing, brakes don't overheat here as much as on short tracks and you can safely do a couple of days per month without much wear, and you definitely don't get as much water condensation. As long as you have proper pads.

For this regime, heat resistant pads is normally all people need and that's the majority of folks who do tourist drives on NS.

[BMWRacer523]

I track my car approx once a month from march to sep and I do flush the brake fluid every 6 months. I have so far had the dealer do it and it is not cost prohibitive. Approx $250 per flush. Cheap insurance to make sure your brakes work IMO. Never driven the ring but not sure what about it makes brake fluid less hygroscopic?

[Sam111]

Originally Posted by beamlord

Also, anything specific or special when changing the pads on g80 ccb? Or it's as straightforward as regular brake pads change.

I read here that bleeding is a pain, but I am not going to replace braking liquid. I feel that better pads are going to be plenty for my purposes.

Nothing specific that I am aware of. But mechanic should clean the rotors (holes, inside of rotor) with some compressed air or soft brush to get all the stuff from smeared pads away.

I also upgraded the brake fluid for a better one as others have mentioned, no issues with that either.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

I track my car approx once a month from march to sep and I do flush the brake fluid every 6 months. I have so far had the dealer do it and it is not cost prohibitive. Approx $250 per flush. Cheap insurance to make sure your brakes work IMO. Never driven the ring but not sure what about it makes brake fluid less hygroscopic?

If we are talking about just the hygroscopic property of brake fluid, it's at a rate of 1.5% per year so changing it every 6 month is simply an overkill. You are doing it because you regularly track the car and if you overheat the fluid there's going to be a risk of boiling of those few % of water.
On the NS you don't normally overheat the brake fluid if you do single laps with subsequent cooldown. Unless you are completely clueless, but then no amount of fresh brake fluid is going to help you. This is a very special track and it doesn't forgive incompetent driving style.

[beamlord]

Originally Posted by Sam111

Nothing specific that I am aware of. But mechanic should clean the rotors (holes, inside of rotor) with some compressed air or soft brush to get all the stuff from smeared pads away.

I also upgraded the brake fluid for a better one as others have mentioned, no issues with that either.

Do you happen to have some photos of the rotors before they were cleaned? How bad was the smearing ?