[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Out-gassing? Maybe you've heard of that one.

When the brake pads and rotors get very hot, the pad material releases a very high temperature gas that gets between the pad and rotor that reduces the friction between the two. This is brake fade due to out-gassing. That's how we ended up with slotted and drilled rotors as they give the gas a place to escape.

Some brake pads, likely that EBC, release a bit more gas than others during burnishing so that fade is expected. They shouldn't fade after burnishing, but try it again a day or two later and bring a heat gun. You can only get the outside pad temperature, but it should be good enough to confirm that you're not overheating the pads.

80-20 MPH braking on a 3800 lbs car involves more heat than 80-20 MPH braking on a 3000 lbs car so that's another thing to keep in mind. The heavier the car, the easier it is to bring the pads up to temperature and potentially overheat them so maybe not as many passes are required. I've done 10 passes of three sets on my track car; 60-10, 80-10, 100-10. That would be overkill on the G80.

+1 here, blue stuff has a lot of solvent to burn off. They stink the first time they get hot and dont bite until you get them heat cycled

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by Ximian

What is this Pirelli PZero Corsa tire? 80 treadwear, BMW Star spec -

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...ndard%20Brakes

Ive been eyeing that…since it's materially leas expensive than the cup2*. I tried researching it in rennlist and i got the impression from them that it was a fast wearing tire and better for wet track than a cup2 but cup2 was better in dry

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Out-gassing? Maybe you've heard of that one.

When the brake pads and rotors get very hot, the pad material releases a very high temperature gas that gets between the pad and rotor that reduces the friction between the two. This is brake fade due to out-gassing. That's how we ended up with slotted and drilled rotors as they give the gas a place to escape.

Some brake pads, likely that EBC, release a bit more gas than others during burnishing so that fade is expected. They shouldn't fade after burnishing, but try it again a day or two later and bring a heat gun. You can only get the outside pad temperature, but it should be good enough to confirm that you're not overheating the pads.

80-20 MPH braking on a 3800 lbs car involves more heat than 80-20 MPH braking on a 3000 lbs car so that's another thing to keep in mind. The heavier the car, the easier it is to bring the pads up to temperature and potentially overheat them so maybe not as many passes are required. I've done 10 passes of three sets on my track car; 60-10, 80-10, 100-10. That would be overkill on the G80.

Originally Posted by beachBmmr

+1 here, blue stuff has a lot of solvent to burn off. They stink the first time they get hot and dont bite until you get them heat cycled

Originally Posted by Ximian

Out-gassing? Maybe you've heard of that one.

When the brake pads and rotors get very hot, the pad material releases a very high temperature gas that gets between the pad and rotor that reduces the friction between the two. This is brake fade due to out-gassing. That's how we ended up with slotted and drilled rotors as they give the gas a place to escape.

Some brake pads, likely that EBC, release a bit more gas than others during burnishing so that fade is expected. They shouldn't fade after burnishing, but try it again a day or two later and bring a heat gun. You can only get the outside pad temperature, but it should be good enough to confirm that you're not overheating the pads.

80-20 MPH braking on a 3800 lbs car involves more heat than 80-20 MPH braking on a 3000 lbs car so that's another thing to keep in mind. The heavier the car, the easier it is to bring the pads up to temperature and potentially overheat them so maybe not as many passes are required. I've done 10 passes of three sets on my track car; 60-10, 80-10, 100-10. That would be overkill on the G80.

Thanks guys. I guess I was spoiled with the PFC's. I have one more bedding procedure to do at the track. Currently they do not seem to bite as well as the PFC's but hopefully they will after bedding.

[Ximian]

Has anyone tried to hardwire an Aim Solo DL 2 to the CAN? I know AIM provides some instruction on https://aim-sportline.com/download/e...cu_100_eng.pdf

But when it comes to anything electrical, I need a lot more hand holding. I bought a PnP for the E9x and even that didn't have good enough instructions for me.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by beachBmmr

Ive been eyeing that…since it's materially leas expensive than the cup2*. I tried researching it in rennlist and i got the impression from them that it was a fast wearing tire and better for wet track than a cup2 but cup2 was better in dry

Different car, different tire. These are Star spec and at 80 TW, it will wear quicker, but should also be much quicker. The big thing is that they're $1450 (on Tire Rack) and worth trying over the Cup 2s. You should definitely try them out and let us know what you think.

I'm being very sensible with spending your money here.

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Different car, different tire. These are Star spec and at 80 TW, it will wear quicker, but should also be much quicker. The big thing is that they're $1450 (on Tire Rack) and worth trying over the Cup 2s. You should definitely try them out and let us know what you think.

I'm being very sensible with spending your money here.

I agree its a sensible experiment vs running a cup2 R, or trofeo. and only if I am chasing lap times with a fully sorted wet brain behind the wheel...(still lots to work out on that).

More important to me is longevity and being able to run 30+ sessions on a set. 80TW vs 240TW on the cup2* implies a material longevity challenge and the 30% discount will likely be paired with at least 50% shorter life...

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by beachBmmr

I agree its a sensible experiment vs running a cup2 R, or trofeo. and only if I am chasing lap times with a fully sorted wet brain behind the wheel...(still lots to work out on that).

More important to me is longevity and being able to run 30+ sessions on a set. 80TW vs 240TW on the cup2* implies a material longevity challenge and the 30% discount will likely be paired with at least 50% shorter life...

I can get a lot more track time (session length and session quantity) out of 100 TW NT01s vs Cup 2s*.

With trackable street tires (>200 TW), they don't necessarily handle heat as well as these lower TW track tires. Overheated tires wear much more quickly and the temperature value when they are overheated is likely much higher on these Corsa tires.

In my opinion, the Cup 2 is just a street tire, albeit one with excellent performance.

"Let's not all fall for the Michelin marketing" -me, with 2 spare sets of Cup 2 tires in the basement


* on the E92 track car

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by Ximian

I can get a lot more track time (session length and session quantity) out of 100 TW NT01s vs Cup 2s*.

With trackable street tires (>200 TW), they don't necessarily handle heat as well as these lower TW track tires. Overheated tires wear much more quickly and the temperature value when they are overheated is likely much higher on these Corsa tires.

In my opinion, the Cup 2 is just a street tire, albeit one with excellent performance.

"Let's not all fall for the Michelin marketing" -me, with 2 spare sets of Cup 2 tires in the basement


[SIZE="1"]* on the E92 track car[/SIZE]

Nt01s are a special tire made of magic rubber. Everyone that has an e series M car automatically recommends them, but alas, no sizes to be had..

[beachBmmr]

Sad trombone…running around at -3.2 up front is starting to hurt. Time to start using that lifetime alignment I have with the shop. This is my track set corded, and my street set getting there on the inside.

I really dont like adding alignments to track prep but this cannot stand. At least the vorshlags are easy to adjust. Ill have to see how bad it moves toe and caster. Maybe its a garage deal.

Rears at -2 are showing some inner wear but not as bad.

Oh and i got a fucking roofing nail in my front cup. Perhaps it may be pzc4 for spring.

[moproblems]

Originally Posted by beachBmmr

Sad trombone…running around at -3.2 up front is starting to hurt. Time to start using that lifetime alignment I have with the shop. This is my track set corded, and my street set getting there on the inside.

I really dont like adding alignments to track prep but this cannot stand. At least the vorshlags are easy to adjust. Ill have to see how bad it moves toe and caster. Maybe its a garage deal.

Rears at -2 are showing some inner wear but not as bad.

Oh and i got a fucking roofing nail in my front cup. Perhaps it may be pzc4 for spring.

Maybe consider getting a set of toe plates and dialing the alignment at the track. It's not a hard job to do and will save your tires. I plan on shifting camber and just running the 1/8th of toe out I get at the track and then shift the plates back for the drive home.

For rear camber settings I went back from -2.2 to -1.7, which is the factory spec as I had corded the inside rear as well. Outer shoulder wear was great though.

[Mrspeed636]

Does someone make toe plates for the G8X?

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by moproblems

Maybe consider getting a set of toe plates and dialing the alignment at the track. It's not a hard job to do and will save your tires. I plan on shifting camber and just running the 1/8th of toe out I get at the track and then shift the plates back for the drive home.

For rear camber settings I went back from -2.2 to -1.7, which is the factory spec as I had corded the inside rear as well. Outer shoulder wear was great though.

I was thinking of how to deal with this. My track has a hunter to use but its all about the prep time. Having to do an alignment before and after just kills so much time! You're getting an 1/8th out when your aligned at zero with the plates set for street? Whats the toe setting on both plate positions

My rears aren't that bad at -2

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by moproblems

Maybe consider getting a set of toe plates and dialing the alignment at the track. It's not a hard job to do and will save your tires. I plan on shifting camber and just running the 1/8th of toe out I get at the track and then shift the plates back for the drive home.

For rear camber settings I went back from -2.2 to -1.7, which is the factory spec as I had corded the inside rear as well. Outer shoulder wear was great though.

https://www.northstarmotorsports.com/tech.tips3/

Implies that some toe out at the front is beneficial for more sensitive turn in...I set my plates back as far outboard as they can be and will put it on the rack Wednesday. I will align it for street and then push the dampers back in and see what it does.

[moproblems]

Originally Posted by beachBmmr

https://www.northstarmotorsports.com/tech.tips3/

Implies that some toe out at the front is beneficial for more sensitive turn in...I set my plates back as far outboard as they can be and will put it on the rack Wednesday. I will align it for street and then push the dampers back in and see what it does.

Responding to both of your posts here. I have an 1/8th in or thereabouts at the street setting which is plates set to 0. At 20mm of shift at the top hat I end up at about an 1/8th out. I will play with this as the day goes on Sunday.

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by moproblems

Responding to both of your posts here. I have an 1/8th in or thereabouts at the street setting which is plates set to 0. At 20mm of shift at the top hat I end up at about an 1/8th out. I will play with this as the day goes on Sunday.

1/8th out is going to be good, but mind the straights.

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by moproblems

Responding to both of your posts here. I have an 1/8th in or thereabouts at the street setting which is plates set to 0. At 20mm of shift at the top hat I end up at about an 1/8th out. I will play with this as the day goes on Sunday.

So I got in the rack today

I went from 1/8th out with the plates in track position (-3.4 camber) to 5/8ths toe in with them all the way inboard (- 1.8 camber).

I had them reset toe to 3/16 toe in for street and should land at 9/16ths out for the track

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by Ximian

I can get a lot more track time (session length and session quantity) out of 100 TW NT01s vs Cup 2s*.

With trackable street tires (>200 TW), they don't necessarily handle heat as well as these lower TW track tires. Overheated tires wear much more quickly and the temperature value when they are overheated is likely much higher on these Corsa tires.

In my opinion, the Cup 2 is just a street tire, albeit one with excellent performance.

"Let's not all fall for the Michelin marketing" -me, with 2 spare sets of Cup 2 tires in the basement


* on the E92 track car

I just ordered another set of Cup2 *s....I guess I hate money, but I dont like the PZC4 commentary, or the small size of the shoulder blocks...Just doesnt add up. Porsche crew says they fall off way too quickly after their peak, so longevity seems to be a challenge. Also, I dont want to have new tires to blame my lap times on...

[jmg]

Originally Posted by beachBmmr

I just ordered another set of Cup2 *s....I guess I hate money, but I dont like the PZC4 commentary, or the small size of the shoulder blocks...Just doesnt add up. Porsche crew says they fall off way too quickly after their peak, so longevity seems to be a challenge. Also, I dont want to have new tires to blame my lap times on...

I've never used Cup2's on the track. Would you consider these more an endurance or hot lap tire?

How many heat cycles before they are scrubbed?

[beachBmmr]

Originally Posted by jmg

I've never used Cup2's on the track. Would you consider these more an endurance or hot lap tire?

How many heat cycles before they are scrubbed?

Well I have gotten about 20 sessions on them and there is still life in the rears. I corded the fronts and picked up a nail in one so I'm just starting with a fresh set. If you don't overheat them they seem to be very consistent. Keep tpms temps under 185 and cool them down periodically and they seem to stay in a good window.

They take a while to heat up so not a good autocross tire, they are slick cold

[docprechop]

Just got my 2022 M3 Comp xDrive and would like to do some basic prep for my first track day.

1. What is the max camber one can get from stock configuration?
2. How do the stock brake pads and fluid hold up?
3. Any other adjustments or prep suggested?

Thanks

[BulkBen]

Originally Posted by docprechop

Just got my 2022 M3 Comp xDrive and would like to do some basic prep for my first track day.

1. What is the max camber one can get from stock configuration?
2. How do the stock brake pads and fluid hold up?
3. Any other adjustments or prep suggested?

Thanks

The stock front camber is not adjustable, but on a lowered car most people have 1.9 - 2.0 degrees, at a guess it's likely more like 1.5 - 1.6 on a non lowered car.
People who have bought adjustable strut tops (a few companies sell them now) are getting up to 3.4 degrees!

Most people seem to be doing fine with stock pads apart from the rears overheating. Read up some more on it, but it seems that when the rears get too hot they actually put the car into limp mode!

No idea if better fluid helps, but most people who hit the track run SRF or something similar before they head out.

There are quite a few track pad options now which solve the issue above and you'll get far more track days out of proper pads - again lots on the subject in this section of the forum.

Watch your tyre pressures would be the main tip otherwise. If you are running any of the road tyres you'll probably want to run these at around 36psi hot, but they will pump up to well over 40 after a run or two.

Drop pressure as soon as you come off the track, after a few times doing this you should be right. If its cold and you are off the track for an hour or more just watch they don't drop too low between sessions.

[docprechop]

Do aftermarket adjustable strut tops void the warranty?