BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
Technical Sections Wheels / Tires

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-12-2021, 06:50 AM   #1
M3-san
Second Lieutenant
M3-san's Avatar
United_States
253
Rep
284
Posts

Drives: M3xD, 535xi
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Hi all,

I went to the dealership yesterday to have them look at a few parts I want installed including an exhaust valve controller and spacers. They initially said they could install both no problem in an hour (1 hour labor) which I thought was very reasonable. They are going to call me on Monday and fit me in so I can wait for it while they do the work. I said cool and I was back in my car and ready to leave.

As I'm getting ready to pull out of the service bay area, my SA and another gentlemen who turns out to be the service manager stops me and wants to chat for a min about the spacers.

He said he would strongly advise against spacers because they can cause warped rotors. His logic was that with spacers the wheels are no longer sitting flush on the hubs and are more reliant on the lugs and nuts to stay attached to the vehicle. In other words, when you put spacers on, you are putting more pressure on the lugs because the wheels are sitting beyond the hub.

Is this true? I've never heard this and the spacers I have actually have a little extension so that the hub area where the wheels sit is actually extended as well. So my initial thought is that what he is saying is not true.

But experience would be the real test as to whether what he was saying was true. Has anyone run into issues with warped rotors while running spacers?

Thanks,
Shaun
__________________
2022 ///M3 COMP XD BKG
Appreciate 1
nathanm4681.00
      09-12-2021, 07:21 AM   #2
m20e3087
Major
m20e3087's Avatar
No_Country
1143
Rep
1,406
Posts

Drives: G87
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M2C  [0.00]
As long as it's hub centric and made out of good single block of metal you will be fine. Also as long as it's not super crazy in size it shouldn't cause any problems.
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2021, 07:57 AM   #3
barryc365
Major
1949
Rep
1,377
Posts

Drives: BMWM3
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

I think you'll be fine with good quality spacers that come with longer lug bolts. Spacers are very common and I haven't personally experienced any issues with them on various cars
Appreciate 0
      09-12-2021, 09:40 PM   #4
forza1976
Major General
forza1976's Avatar
United_States
3391
Rep
6,585
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 49417 and 60610

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
2022 BMW M3X  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-san View Post
Hi all,

I went to the dealership yesterday to have them look at a few parts I want installed including an exhaust valve controller and spacers. They initially said they could install both no problem in an hour (1 hour labor) which I thought was very reasonable. They are going to call me on Monday and fit me in so I can wait for it while they do the work. I said cool and I was back in my car and ready to leave.

As I'm getting ready to pull out of the service bay area, my SA and another gentlemen who turns out to be the service manager stops me and wants to chat for a min about the spacers.

He said he would strongly advise against spacers because they can cause warped rotors. His logic was that with spacers the wheels are no longer sitting flush on the hubs and are more reliant on the lugs and nuts to stay attached to the vehicle. In other words, when you put spacers on, you are putting more pressure on the lugs because the wheels are sitting beyond the hub.

Is this true? I've never heard this and the spacers I have actually have a little extension so that the hub area where the wheels sit is actually extended as well. So my initial thought is that what he is saying is not true.

But experience would be the real test as to whether what he was saying was true. Has anyone run into issues with warped rotors while running spacers?

Thanks,
Shaun
Tell the service manager to stick to pushing paper.
Appreciate 4
Vic5518965.50
M3LISSA784.50
      09-13-2021, 06:58 AM   #5
JTO24
never could compete with Lloyd Braun
JTO24's Avatar
United_States
5247
Rep
5,374
Posts

Drives: 2022 G80 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: South Jersey

iTrader: (7)

As one of the other posters mentioned, as long as the spacer is hub-centric and extended wheel bolts are used, they should be no problem.

BTW, Porsche used to offer spacers as a factory option on the 911
__________________
2022 G80 M3 6MT | Skyscraper Gray | Kyalami Orange
2018 F87 M2 6MT | Alpine White (sold)
2016 981 Cayman 6MT | Jet Black (sold)
2015 F80 M3 DCT | Tanzanite Blue | Gold Brown (sold)
2013 E92 M3 6MT | Mineral White | Fox Red/Black (sold)
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2021, 11:50 AM   #6
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

100000% agree with all the replies here.... the dealership employee doesnt understand how the part works with the hub.

Im running spacers on 4 of my 5 cars right now... zero issues as long as the material is right, the install is right, and the bolt length is correct.

These dealer guys crack me up-- but alot of them know their shit too so I wont be a negative person here cause of one idiot's comment.
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 2
r33_RGSport12805.00
Seedster2238.00
      09-13-2021, 11:56 AM   #7
Odinsrighthand
Private
282
Rep
88
Posts

Drives: E36 M3, G80 M3C
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Idaho

iTrader: (0)

A quality spacer won't cause any issues with the rotors, the only thing spacers will cause to wear more would be wheel bearings.
Appreciate 2
Limegrntaln13021.50
JayDD007103.50
      09-13-2021, 03:14 PM   #8
M_Adaptive
Lieutenant
M_Adaptive's Avatar
United_States
1766
Rep
585
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, 2022 G82 M4 AWD
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-san View Post
Hi all,

I went to the dealership yesterday to have them look at a few parts I want installed including an exhaust valve controller and spacers. They initially said they could install both no problem in an hour (1 hour labor) which I thought was very reasonable. They are going to call me on Monday and fit me in so I can wait for it while they do the work. I said cool and I was back in my car and ready to leave.

As I'm getting ready to pull out of the service bay area, my SA and another gentlemen who turns out to be the service manager stops me and wants to chat for a min about the spacers.

He said he would strongly advise against spacers because they can cause warped rotors. His logic was that with spacers the wheels are no longer sitting flush on the hubs and are more reliant on the lugs and nuts to stay attached to the vehicle. In other words, when you put spacers on, you are putting more pressure on the lugs because the wheels are sitting beyond the hub.

Is this true? I've never heard this and the spacers I have actually have a little extension so that the hub area where the wheels sit is actually extended as well. So my initial thought is that what he is saying is not true.

But experience would be the real test as to whether what he was saying was true. Has anyone run into issues with warped rotors while running spacers?

Thanks,
Shaun
100% true. It happened to me with my E92. It most likely won’t cause any issues but if you ever have brake problems, your SA can tell you because you have an aftermarket part on the part that is having the issue we cannot rule out that the aftermarket part is causing the problem therefore we cannot cover it under the warranty. Once they do that they put in DCS which is their system that has all BMW records. It is now marked in red so any dealer will immediately see what the SA said about the brakes. I was very pissed when this happened and never ran spacers again. So yeah it can happen.
__________________
IG: Adaptiive_M
E46 M3 (Sold)
E92 M3
2022 G82 M4C Xdrive
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2021, 03:20 PM   #9
M_Adaptive
Lieutenant
M_Adaptive's Avatar
United_States
1766
Rep
585
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, 2022 G82 M4 AWD
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

I went to my SA years ago about warped rotors and they said it was due to my spacers. Voided my warranty on the brakes and I couldn’t do a thing. Couldn’t go to another dealer because it was red flagged by the dealer so every dealer ever will see it when they pull it up the info on DCS. Just know it is possible. And before someone says I just had a bad experience, wrong. I had an experience that can happen to anybody. They service center apologized profusely but I had to pay out of pocket for all further brake costs.
__________________
IG: Adaptiive_M
E46 M3 (Sold)
E92 M3
2022 G82 M4C Xdrive
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2021, 06:02 PM   #10
corbs09
Lieutenant
353
Rep
478
Posts

Drives: 09 335i
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Dallas

iTrader: (1)

Spacers take 15 minutes to install/remove... just take them off for dealer visits. This is dumb though and I would find a new dealer. What about aftermarket wheels with a different offset, would that warp rotors? Probably not.
Appreciate 1
mathys196.50
      09-13-2021, 07:53 PM   #11
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8067
Rep
18,788
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Somebody better tell these guys too. Snippet from M Motorsport's GT4 catalog.

https://www.bmw-motorsport.com/conte...8005566778.pdf
Attached Images
 
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2021, 01:34 PM   #12
Griz
Captain
182
Rep
630
Posts

Drives: 2010 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Crook County, IL

iTrader: (0)

@M3-san Your experience is merely a reflection of the service manager not wanting to inherit any liability related to installing aftermarket parts. It's stupid because dealerships often don't torque lugs to proper spec, which is a more immediate risk to rotor failure.

Now is the explanation you were given possible? Maybe, though remote. As was already posted by another member, there's some risk of premature failure of wheel bearings, which is a risk with spacers and wheels with different offsets. And if you continue to drive long enough with failed wheel bearings, this could translate to rotor wobble and eventual failure.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2021, 01:46 PM   #13
Griz
Captain
182
Rep
630
Posts

Drives: 2010 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Crook County, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Somebody better tell these guys too. Snippet from M Motorsport's GT4 catalog.
Does this affect offset? The spacer on the GT4 brakes appears necessary given the lack of an offset/staggered hub like in the roadgoing M3.

GT4 cars also aren't driven and maintained in the same manner as their roadgoing cousins.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2021, 04:18 PM   #14
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8067
Rep
18,788
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griz View Post
Does this affect offset? The spacer on the GT4 brakes appears necessary given the lack of an offset/staggered hub like in the roadgoing M3.

GT4 cars also aren't driven and maintained in the same manner as their roadgoing cousins.
It's an extreme example. Spacers simply aren't warping rotors.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2021, 05:56 PM   #15
Griz
Captain
182
Rep
630
Posts

Drives: 2010 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Crook County, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
It's an extreme example. Spacers simply aren't warping rotors.
And what are your thoughts on spacers contributing to premature wheel bearing failure?
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2021, 05:58 PM   #16
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8067
Rep
18,788
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griz View Post
And what are your thoughts on spacers contributing to premature wheel bearing failure?
With trucks running 1-2" spacers, maybe. In the minimal sizes we're running, not an issue.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2021, 10:03 AM   #17
Griz
Captain
182
Rep
630
Posts

Drives: 2010 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Crook County, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
With trucks running 1-2" spacers, maybe. In the minimal sizes we're running, not an issue.
Thank you for sharing. My leaning is that the risk is minimal; I just haven't found consistent messaging on the topic. The detractors (of using spacers) seem to often be mechanics working off of dated and/or extreme anecdotes, while vendors are universally advocates. It is what it is.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2021, 04:40 PM   #18
M3-san
Second Lieutenant
M3-san's Avatar
United_States
253
Rep
284
Posts

Drives: M3xD, 535xi
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

I've decided to go ahead and install the spacers myself. I'm going to invest in a good floor jack and all accessories needed to get the job done (and done right).

Some really sound advise in here so I appreciate it.

I've done some research on my own as well and as someone else mentioned, improperly torqued lug bolts are a more likely cause of warped rotors. So I'm going to ensure I invest in a good torque wrench and also make sure I tighten the bolts in the proper/recommended order to minimize risk.
__________________
2022 ///M3 COMP XD BKG
Appreciate 1
mathys196.50
      09-15-2021, 05:11 PM   #19
Asmooth0101
Second Lieutenant
136
Rep
247
Posts

Drives: Lexus rx350
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-san View Post
I've decided to go ahead and install the spacers myself. I'm going to invest in a good floor jack and all accessories needed to get the job done (and done right).

Some really sound advise in here so I appreciate it.

I've done some research on my own as well and as someone else mentioned, improperly torqued lug bolts are a more likely cause of warped rotors. So I'm going to ensure I invest in a good torque wrench and also make sure I tighten the bolts in the proper/recommended order to minimize risk.
Does anyone know how much the stock lugs are supposed to be torqued?
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2021, 05:48 PM   #20
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8067
Rep
18,788
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmooth0101 View Post
Does anyone know how much the stock lugs are supposed to be torqued?
105ft lb.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2021, 10:24 PM   #21
Asmooth0101
Second Lieutenant
136
Rep
247
Posts

Drives: Lexus rx350
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmooth0101 View Post
Does anyone know how much the stock lugs are supposed to be torqued?
105ft lb.
Awesome, thx!
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2021, 03:18 PM   #22
HTTP 410
Captain
HTTP 410's Avatar
2106
Rep
753
Posts

Drives: 2022 M3 Competition
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
My local dealer said they'd install spacers on my new car when it gets here.
__________________
2022 M3 Comp BGM/Fiona Red, Executive, Drivers Assistant Pro, Parking Assist, 826M black wheels

(SOLD) 2018 M2 BSM LCI, DCT, Executive, Drivers Assist, CarPlay
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:24 AM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST