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      10-18-2021, 09:31 AM   #1
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This may be dumb but need help...

Ok guys...so I'm thinking about lowering my G80 (not x drive). I have been perusing this sub forum and I'm just confused. Maybe you guys can shed some light. I haven't modded a car in a VERY long time and this is really all I'm possibly interested in doing.

I don't want a slammed/tuck looked. I just want to bring it down a little bit; a modest drop to close some of the gap. I see people going with the MSS HAS kit and the KW kit. What do I want/need?

Can someone just give me the pros and cons of each and which one I want? I promise I looked but I just want a quick blurb without reading through multiple threads about suspension.

TIA!
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      10-18-2021, 09:53 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightedBMW View Post
Ok guys...so I'm thinking about lowering my G80 (not x drive). I have been perusing this sub forum and I'm just confused. Maybe you guys can shed some light. I haven't modded a car in a VERY long time and this is really all I'm possibly interested in doing.

I don't want a slammed/tuck looked. I just want to bring it down a little bit; a modest drop to close some of the gap. I see people going with the MSS HAS kit and the KW kit. What do I want/need?

Can someone just give me the pros and cons of each and which one I want? I promise I looked but I just want a quick blurb without reading through multiple threads about suspension.

TIA!
My thoughts:

KW and MSS are both amazing and are both adjustable so its up to you on which product you like better. I have KW HAS on my M8 and it endures the bumps and undulations brilliantly. I have the MSS on both my prior M3 RWD and current X drive with amazing road feel and the car is very low or lower than my M8. The MSS has this unique 2nd spring in the rear which really helps with comfort and works so well with the G8X dampers.

On MSS using the "normal" install your car will drop about 18-20mm in the front (or you can go less) and you have room up to 35mm in the rear (or less of course). Since you dont want to drop your car much, if you get the MSS, just lower the front close to the max adjuster allowance and the rear to match it or around there. Same for the KW (Ive run over 15 sets of KW and they are great too) but the only reason I had MSS was because KW just recently came out and I lowered my RWD M3 in May. I thought I would flip to KW once it was available but after running it on both the RWD and X drive cars, Im not doing anything with it but enjoying.

I am not privy to the spring rates on the KW or MSS but can only imagine its a crap shoot on whats better as I have not rode in a KW G8X car yet. But with that being said, the MSS is arguably, for me, one of the best HAS systems Ive been in. The springs and rear helper mated up with the OEM dampers is very very strong in regards to compression and rebound along with enduring/comfort.

I would choose one of these items vs AST or H&R where the drops are fixed and it might be too low for you.
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      10-18-2021, 09:58 AM   #3
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Thanks Vic55 !!
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      10-18-2021, 01:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightedBMW View Post
Thanks Vic55 !!
This is MSS with the front leaving maybe 5mm- disregard the rear as I went for a more dropped look. You can do this and keep the rear about 5mm or 10mm higher with no issues.

Now, as you know, Ive used the RG Sport MSS adjustment up front to clearly drop it further (35mm) and thus dropped the rear to 30mm.

Normal MSS front drop with maybe 5mm left in the adjuster (assuming around 15-18mm drop from oem)- rear is circa 25mm drop from OEM.




Same car with the aggressive settings (35/30) but I have really good roads and honestly I can not tell much a difference in road feel or feedback as the springs are that good:

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      10-18-2021, 01:47 PM   #5
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Awesome!! I just got a quote for labor; seemed pricey, but I know its a top notch shop by me. How many hours should this install take by a reputable experience shop? They're telling me 6 hours.
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      10-18-2021, 02:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightedBMW View Post
Awesome!! I just got a quote for labor; seemed pricey, but I know its a top notch shop by me. How many hours should this install take by a reputable experience shop? They're telling me 6 hours.
Thats some severe markup hourwise for a RWD car.... I think the fastest two men can do it is around 2 hours on a HAS- add in another hour for markup and thats fair.

Tell them 3-4 hours is what is fair for billables.
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      10-18-2021, 02:24 PM   #7
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I think Vic's advice is appropriate. I think I'm going with KW HAS and will be looking at something between 20-25mm Front & Rear.

In your case I think shooting for 15-20mm sounds about right to "close the gap" without the car being too low. Any drop that's less than 15mm wouldn't be worth it in my opinion since you're paying for the kit and labor.
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      10-19-2021, 01:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightedBMW View Post
Ok guys...so I'm thinking about lowering my G80 (not x drive). I have been perusing this sub forum and I'm just confused. Maybe you guys can shed some light. I haven't modded a car in a VERY long time and this is really all I'm possibly interested in doing.

I don't want a slammed/tuck looked. I just want to bring it down a little bit; a modest drop to close some of the gap. I see people going with the MSS HAS kit and the KW kit. What do I want/need?

Can someone just give me the pros and cons of each and which one I want? I promise I looked but I just want a quick blurb without reading through multiple threads about suspension.

TIA!
Purely up to you. Springs will give a fixed drop, a HAS/Sleeve (like the KW HAS) kit will let you dial in your exact drop. For most, springs are perfectly fine and come in at a much lower cost. Good news is - either option feels comfortable and will retain your EDC.

IMHO - springs are perfectly fine for most street drivers out there unless you have a specific ride height in mind. You can see some examples of M3s with AST springs in this thread: https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1847754.

On the HAS side, you can keep the drop conservative or go even lower - that's the beauty of a HAS kit.
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      10-19-2021, 09:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Purely up to you. Springs will give a fixed drop, a HAS/Sleeve (like the KW HAS) kit will let you dial in your exact drop. For most, springs are perfectly fine and come in at a much lower cost. Good news is - either option feels comfortable and will retain your EDC.

IMHO - springs are perfectly fine for most street drivers out there unless you have a specific ride height in mind. You can see some examples of M3s with AST springs in this thread: https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1847754.

On the HAS side, you can keep the drop conservative or go even lower - that's the beauty of a HAS kit.
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      10-19-2021, 09:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Purely up to you.
tom @ eas

Much like the original poster, I like the idea of lowering for looks, but will never go back to adjust the height later. I also do not want it slammed. As a reference, the AST springs seem to be a near perfect drop for my eyes.

As a daily, I am more worried about everyday compliance than I am track gains (I have to drive clients and family sometimes so it cannot be a f1 car ride). I drive my g20 in sport unless I have others in the car, then it goes to comfort. I have not been able to drive a g80 yet, but I would think there are similar steps of stiffness available, with the comfort mode equivalent likely being closer to sport on the g20.

Vic55 has already provided insights elsewhere, and like him, most everyone with the MSS HAS seems extremely happy with the ride compliance compared to stock (the two stage rear spring seems to make a large difference).

Have you had the opportunity to compare ride compliance of the HAS systems compared to the fixed rate AST springs?

Thank you so much for any advice you can offer.
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      10-20-2021, 12:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw noob View Post
tom @ eas

Much like the original poster, I like the idea of lowering for looks, but will never go back to adjust the height later. I also do not want it slammed. As a reference, the AST springs seem to be a near perfect drop for my eyes.

As a daily, I am more worried about everyday compliance than I am track gains (I have to drive clients and family sometimes so it cannot be a f1 car ride). I drive my g20 in sport unless I have others in the car, then it goes to comfort. I have not been able to drive a g80 yet, but I would think there are similar steps of stiffness available, with the comfort mode equivalent likely being closer to sport on the g20.

Vic55 has already provided insights elsewhere, and like him, most everyone with the MSS HAS seems extremely happy with the ride compliance compared to stock (the two stage rear spring seems to make a large difference).

Have you had the opportunity to compare ride compliance of the HAS systems compared to the fixed rate AST springs?

Thank you so much for any advice you can offer.
MSS was first to market, but we have plenty more options now.

What you described is exactly what springs will provide - a nice aggressive stance. The AST Springs will provide the same ride as OEM, while simply removing the wheel gap for a more aesthetically pleasing look - at a realistic price. Comparing comfort between the two: The ride will be a slight bit more sporty with the KW HAS than the ASTs. Some prefer option 1, some prefer option 2.

HAS/Sleeve kits are good for those that want a sporty ride and want to retain the option of ride height adjustments, but don't see any track time or wanting make a commitment (or need) of a full coilover system like the KWV4s or Ohlins R&T when they are released.

For street-only driving or if you don't need the option of adjusting ride height (most don't) - then run with the AST springs and spend the $$ saved on additional mods.
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      10-20-2021, 08:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
MSS was first to market, but we have plenty more options now.

What you described is exactly what springs will provide - a nice aggressive stance. The AST Springs will provide the same ride as OEM, while simply removing the wheel gap for a more aesthetically pleasing look - at a realistic price. Comparing comfort between the two: The ride will be a slight bit more sporty with the KW HAS than the ASTs. Some prefer option 1, some prefer option 2.

HAS/Sleeve kits are good for those that want a sporty ride and want to retain the option of ride height adjustments, but don't see any track time or wanting make a commitment (or need) of a full coilover system like the KWV4s or Ohlins R&T when they are released.

For street-only driving or if you don't need the option of adjusting ride height (most don't) - then run with the AST springs and spend the $$ saved on additional mods.
tom @ eas thanks! Check PM.
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      10-20-2021, 01:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
MSS was first to market, but we have plenty more options now.

Comparing comfort between the two: The ride will be a slight bit more sporty with the KW HAS than the ASTs. Some prefer option 1, some prefer option 2.
Thank you for your input. This is exactly why I love these forums.
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      10-21-2021, 11:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Comparing comfort between the two: The ride will be a slight bit more sporty with the KW HAS than the ASTs. Some prefer option 1, some prefer option 2.
tom @ eas does this statement mean one should expect a less comfortable ride on KW HAS than ASTs?

I was under the impression that KW HAS and MSS HAS drove similar to stock in terms of ride comfort.
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      10-21-2021, 11:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3AWD View Post
tom @ eas does this statement mean one should expect a less comfortable ride on KW HAS than ASTs?

I was under the impression that KW HAS and MSS HAS drove similar to stock in terms of ride comfort.
Matter of opinion - one would say stiffer, other would say sportier. It's definitely a different feel than OEM, but not by any means uncomfortable.
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      10-21-2021, 12:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3AWD View Post
tom @ eas does this statement mean one should expect a less comfortable ride on KW HAS than ASTs?

I was under the impression that KW HAS and MSS HAS drove similar to stock in terms of ride comfort.
I dont have KW experience with the G8X but I do with so many other cars and private labeled Novitec builds as well.

My shallow value add is that sporty for KW is more enduring of the bumps, uneven pavement, and rough patches during the slower driving process. And then the springs tighten up (taut) under load and speed as one pushes the car... which creates the "sporty" feel that Tom might have eluded to. A compression and rebound of 1 bounce or the proper amount of chassis feedback. I liken it to the traditional BMW "thud" I had on my E39 M5; just a solid car that really had amazing dampers and springs to match.
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      10-21-2021, 01:55 PM   #17
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One notable difference between MSS & KW would be the ease of installation for the fronts.
For the MSS, you don't have to remove the shock from the wheel hub to retro fit the adjuster/spring, making it much easier to install.
I can install both fronts in about an hour.

The moderate drop of the MSS suits you too.
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      10-21-2021, 06:37 PM   #18
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Just from stalking this forum it seems like H&R is a conservative drop. I went with the AST's. It's the front that bothers me the most, the gap is head scratching
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