10-04-2021, 06:53 PM | #1 |
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F8X DCT vs G8X TC Automatic
This is mostly for the crowd who've swapped from an automatic F-chassis to the G-chassis.
For those of you that've driven your automatic G8Xs for a while, do you find yourself missing the something from the DCT? How's it feel driving in paddles-only? Any weird hangs with the TC? Do you like the TC more? I absolutely adore the DCT and all of its aggressive quirkiness. Worried about going to a TC, regardless of what the ZF performance figures state. Last edited by Equilibrandt; 10-05-2021 at 09:54 AM.. |
10-05-2021, 07:37 AM | #2 | |
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The ZF is absolutely not as crisp and snappy as the DCT and because of that it also doesn't feel quite as much "fun" to shift. What I miss mostly from the DCT was the aggressive rev-matching / throttle blips on down shifts and the sharp engine roar associated with it. With that said, the ZF is still a fast and very effective transmission. It's pretty much bulletproof in terms of reliability and can handle tons of torque for modded cars. For best results and a bit more "fun", I recommend driving it in manual mode, especially on the track. Losing the DCT is the biggest downfall of the G8x platform in terms of driving dynamics and engagement. But does it make a difference in terms of performance? Absolutely not. Not unless you're Lewis Hamilton. I highly recommend test driving one as seeing for yourself if it's a deal breaker. It wasn't for me, even though I'm very much track oriented.
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10-05-2021, 10:42 AM | #3 |
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I had an F82 for 4 years and my G82 for about 6 months now and miss zero about the DCT. I most definitely don't miss the bucking that it used to do when trying to accelerate from low speeds. I never use the paddle shifters or drive it on a track so I can't give any info there, but for daily driving I love the ZF. I initially missed being able to take my foot off the brake at a light, although at the risk of a little bit of rolling if I wasn't on flat ground, but the AutoHold function on the ZF is even better.
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10-05-2021, 10:54 AM | #4 | ||
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All the purists may howl but for the streets, the ZF is just fine. Of course the TCU programming that BMW has makes the hardware that much better. I have had maybe 25 DCT's in my life and still have 2 while 2 others are ZF and one is a nutso MCT. And one other has only one gear (shhhhhhhhhh- no one knows but its faster than shit) Quote:
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10-05-2021, 12:37 PM | #5 |
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Putting the rest of the car (f8x) aside, the DCT gave the car a robust personality. The ZF is just empty and boring. I drove a g8x comp three times before ordering my dravit MT spec.
The ZF is way too smooth and sleepy. It shifts fast-ish, sure, although it does so slower than the DCT. I miss rolling backwards on hills, the car not moving forward when you let go of the brake at a stop, getting absolutely bucked like a bronco during a WOT 1-2 and 2-3 shift, epic downshift blips... the list goes on. Had the g8x came with the DCT, it's highly likely that I would have optioned that over my MT spec. But at the end of day it's preference. Some people want a more refined and comfortable daily. The g8x can satisfy that to a higher degree nowadays with the optional ZF. But if that doesn't do enough in the comfort category for you, you can always opt for a RS5. Which is an absolute snoozefest. |
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10-05-2021, 01:24 PM | #6 | |
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Buy an RS5 and everyone gets the same thing. Buy a G8x and you can have 6MT RWD, ZF-8 RWD, ZF-8 AWD. Woot. |
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10-07-2021, 11:22 PM | #7 |
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I had an M2 with the DCT and I miss it dearly. The M3 is quick but in lower gears near redline it has a noticeable delay in shifting manually even in S3. The ZF8 isn't as fast and never will beat the M-DCT. I'm okay with it but I miss the drama and speed of my DCT. Shift are still very quick they simply lack the same lightning speed
If you actually drive the car at the limit you'll miss the DCT. I wasn't bothered by the low speed jerks or how it would roll back, that made it more fun. I drove my M2 at the limit and loved how well the DCT was in manual mode. I can't speak fully to the ZF8 in that regard yet but while smoother it'll never be as fun. End rant of me saying the same thing several ways The revs hang/delay need redline with the ZF8 slowly kills me though. Maybe lol get past that
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10-09-2021, 09:44 PM | #8 | |
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10-09-2021, 09:48 PM | #9 | ||
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10-10-2021, 08:33 AM | #10 |
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Listening to this sounds like there was a lean towards smoothness over track ability, and I would guess the feedback on DCT for DD was more of an influence than the track crowd.
I would also venture that putting in a DCT in the G80 would have been another powertrain permutation and higher cost than using the same platform as the m5.
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10-10-2021, 10:10 PM | #11 | |
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1. Not continuing to use a transmission that was no longer used by the majority of M cars. The ZF already found it's way into the M5, various X M's, and the M8. The common thread in all those vehicles AND the G80/82 are: 2. AWD. This is the end of the line reason, I think. The ZF8 is BMW's AWD transmission for it's RWD-based platforms. Dollars to donuts, it likely made zero sense to figure out how to get the DCT to work with AWD, or offer two automated gearboxes to keep the RWD Comp DCT when they already had a proven M version of the transmission. If the ZF8 had failed to work well on the M8 and M5, maybe it would would have been different, but the pairing was a success so this is what's offered. Seriously, I think AWD took your DCT. |
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10-11-2021, 02:04 AM | #12 |
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I've had the chance to "test drive" the G80, and it felt a lot more civilized than F80's DCT. I know I would miss that, but in terms of performance I don't think it makes that much of a difference.
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10-12-2021, 11:56 PM | #13 | |
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I don't miss my F80's DCT at all. The new ZF shifts just as fast under load in my experience and I enjoy shifting it more, downshifts are crisp without any jolts or drama. I find myself shifting this car 100% of the time whereas in F80 it was only on the track or in occasions where no one else was in the car. Before the DCT I had a manual car, neither the DCT nor the ZF feel like the manual in any way except for ability to change gears , so if you like the feel of gear shifting you better get a MT. my 2 cents
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11-08-2021, 09:07 PM | #14 | |
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11-08-2021, 09:09 PM | #15 | |
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11-09-2021, 08:07 AM | #16 |
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11-09-2021, 08:54 AM | #17 |
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I had an order for F87 with DCT this summer. I picked this over G80 *just* for the transmission. I was a manual guy all my life and eventually ended up owning a couple of MK7s with DSG due to knee issues. Yes those transmissions are jerky but that adds drama to the whole experience. After TDing, we felt F87 isnt going to meet our needs long term and wasnt practical as well. As a result, i ended up cancelling my order and wait for a G80.
After this, I drove a G80 in Indy M track day this fall and i loved the platform but the only negative is the transmission. It lacks character and drama. But i can understand why BMW is taking this route: Expand their market and reduce development cost. By opting for the ZF, they want to capture the market share of people who want to use these vehicles as performance cruisers. Also by using same transmission architecture across platforms, they can save tons of R&D cost. I will be getting a G80 in the future and only thing which i dislike in the whole vehicle is the transmission. |
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11-09-2021, 05:47 PM | #18 | |
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I literally just got out of my E93, and I just smiled the whole time, as I went up and down the gears with the DCT. It's quite noticeable when you drive the ZF8 and DCT back-to-back. Having said that, it wasn't a deal breaker, and I still enjoy driving my G82, A LOT. But with the ZF8, the increased weight and size and the sublime, linear delivery of power, it feels more like a highly capable GT car most of the time than a rabid, frisky high-performance motorsports car. You have to really be pushing this car for it to feel like an M3 of old. I myself like the grown up version of the M3/4 chassis, which is still quite fun when you're at the limit. I love the comfort and all the tech on long drives. But I'd be lying if I said I miss the DCT. I wish they would have kept it. I would have definitely sacrificed some of the smoothness of the ZF for the fierceness of the DCT. In closing, I'm quite glad I still have my E93...to experience the rawness of that V8 coupled with the DCT. And I completely understand anyone deciding to just keep their F8X platform, tune it to 650+ horsepower, and just keep driving it. The G8X is simply a completely different experience altogether, and the same could be said from anyone moving from the E36 to the E46, or the E46 to the E92, or the E92 to the F82. None of these cars felt the same as the predecessor, and that hasn't changed for the G8X platform. Last edited by KevinGS; 11-09-2021 at 11:06 PM.. |
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11-09-2021, 07:54 PM | #20 |
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Seems to me your in denial that bmw cheaped out and went with Zf. Having said that, I have a g80cx on order. Doesn't mean I need to think an inferior tranny is better just because I bought one. There's a reason that top supercars use Dct. Its the best performance option and driving them back to back is very clear how inferior the zf is when doing "fun" driving. I could care less that it's great puttering around town cause I didn't get the M3 for that. the Dct is absolutely not an issue for me as a daily, especially if you drove a stick previously.
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11-10-2021, 01:33 PM | #21 | ||
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11-10-2021, 03:44 PM | #22 |
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Night and day in what way? Performance-wise it's been stated numerous times by reviewers that there's not much between them. If you like the more drama in the shifts then the DCT is better but that's more of a personal thing.
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