[M3-san]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

105ft lb.

Thanks Tom, I needed this as well!

As a side note, this is the correct way/order to tighten the bolts:


You're supposed to torque to spec in the above order (criss-cross), drive a short distance, then re-torque to spec in the same order.

[amzbimmer]

Originally Posted by M3-san

Thanks Tom, I needed this as well!

As a side note, this is the correct way/order to tighten the bolts:


You're supposed to torque to spec in the above order (criss-cross), drive a short distance, then re-torque to spec in the same order.

Do the local mom and pop shops of Firestones following these guidelines? Are those crazy drills they use calibrated to the correct recommended specs?

I have a feeling no one does this in practice, but I could be wrong.

Any recommendations for torque wrenches?

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by amzbimmer

Do the local mom and pop shops of Firestones following these guidelines? Are those crazy drills they use calibrated to the correct recommended specs?

I have a feeling no one does this in practice, but I could be wrong.

Any recommendations for torque wrenches?

There is not such thing as calibrated impact wrench... they should really use that just to screw the bolts on not to tighten....
Most decent shops will use impact just to screw the bolts and then torque wrench to tighten

This does just fine https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-t...nch-63882.html

[moproblems]

Originally Posted by amzbimmer

Do the local mom and pop shops of Firestones following these guidelines? Are those crazy drills they use calibrated to the correct recommended specs?

I have a feeling no one does this in practice, but I could be wrong.

Any recommendations for torque wrenches?

No impact guns are 99.9 percent not limited. If you use an electric gun or air at consistent pressure you can get a feel for it, however they should still be checked with an accurate torque wrench. Some techs don't care though.

[Griz]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

There is not such thing as calibrated impact wrench... they should really use that just to screw the bolts on not to tighten....
Most decent shops will use impact just to screw the bolts and then torque wrench to tighten

This does just fine https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-t...nch-63882.html

"Torque limiting" sockets are also an option that I've seen but not tried.

But back to the question about shops properly torquing. I always check that the lugs are torqued to spec when I get home, even if torque was applied during BMW service. It's common that people performing oil changes and removing/reinstalling wheels are not the same skill level as those that are working on more involved mechanicals. A nice torque wrench is a worthwhile investment (check the calibration).

[amzbimmer]

Originally Posted by Griz

"Torque limiting" sockets are also an option that I've seen but not tried.

But back to the question about shops properly torquing. I always check that the lugs are torqued to spec when I get home, even if torque was applied during BMW service. It's common that people performing oil changes and removing/reinstalling wheels are not the same skill level as those that are working on more involved mechanicals. A nice torque wrench is a worthwhile investment (check the calibration).

Do you find that they are sometimes under or over torqued? I assume you loosen it, or do you leave it tight if it is over the recommended torque amount?

Do you agree that the harborfreight one may be ok, or would you get a better one?

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by amzbimmer

Do you find that they are sometimes under or over torqued? I assume you loosen it, or do you leave it tight if it is over the recommended torque amount?

Do you agree that the harborfreight one may be ok, or would you get a better one?

[Griz]

Originally Posted by amzbimmer

Do you find that they are sometimes under or over torqued? I assume you loosen it, or do you leave it tight if it is over the recommended torque amount?

Do you agree that the harborfreight one may be ok, or would you get a better one?

Almost always over-torqued.

I don't have any experience with Harbor Freight torque wrenches. My general approach with HF is buy their stuff if you're prepared to buy it again due to failure. Of course, I'm generally spending more than I should for SK, Proto, Knipex, etc. That's my approach - I'm sure you'll find plenty of folks that think differently, and do so with success.

As for my set-up, I've had good results with Precision Instruments torque wrench paired with deep-wall 6pt SK sockets. That said, I can't fully recommend SK. While I love the stuff I have, the brand was recently bought out by a Chinese company, and there's no word on whether they'll be moving manufacturing overseas. In the future, I'll probably be going Proto for sockets.

[pikcachu]

I think the issue is they they usually use the impact wrench which might do 200 ft/lbs so when they then do the torque wrench after at 104, it basically clicks and do nothing

[M3-san]

I have this one and like it a lot:

Limited-time deal: LEXIVON 1/2-Inch Drive Click Torque Wrench 10~150 Ft-Lb/13.6~203.5 Nm (LX-183)
by LEXIVON
Learn more: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07MP1Q3...ing=UTF8&psc=1

I also have these:
LEXIVON Impact Driver Extension Bar Set, 1/2" Drive | 3-Piece 3" 6" & 8" Long, Organized In A Tray | Hardened and Heat Treated Chrome Vanadium Steel (LX-115)
by LEXIVON
Learn more: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07M9X6Q...ing=UTF8&psc=1


And these:
CASOMAN 1/2- Inch Drive Wheel Protector Impact Socket, 1/2" Thin Wall Deep Impact Socket Set Plastic Sleeve Lug Nut, 4 Pieces Set, 6 Point,Metric, 17mm,19mm,21mm,22mm
by CASOMAN
Learn more: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07PPPF6...ing=UTF8&psc=1

[swagon]

No one's even mentioned the fact that it is very rare for rotors to get warped.

[amzbimmer]

Originally Posted by swagon

No one's even mentioned the fact that it is very rare for rotors to get warped.

Good point. All my older cars have issues with the rotors, I'm not sure if this is just from typical wear after 10 -15 years, or if it's premature wear related to improper torquing of the lugnuts. I've had to have the rotors "shaved" on my older Toyota Camry and replaced on the Sienna- which wasn't surprising given the age/mileage.

I'm wondering if proper torquing would increase longevity of my breaks. Although, I'm not entirely convinced it's worth the time and cost of the hardware it would take to keep on top of this.

[Griz]

Originally Posted by swagon

No one's even mentioned the fact that it is very rare for rotors to get warped.

But if we go down that path, is it really warping or uneven wear?

[Griz]

Originally Posted by amzbimmer

Good point. All my older cars have issues with the rotors, I'm not sure if this is just from typical wear after 10 -15 years, or if it's premature wear related to improper torquing of the lugnuts. I've had to have the rotors "shaved" on my older Toyota Camry and replaced on the Sienna- which wasn't surprising given the age/mileage.

I'm wondering if proper torquing would increase longevity of my breaks. Although, I'm not entirely convinced it's worth the time and cost of the hardware it would take to keep on top of this.

It's interesting. Years back, BMW would have never suggested rotor resurfacing (or shaving). I have no idea if they changed their approach to manufacturing/design, or if they're now willing to resurface rotors because brake replacement had become part of the new car warranty (though now booted to a supplemental "maintenance" warranty).

[LuvMyE92]

As for the impact wrenches that most professional mechanics use, there is a thing called a "torque stick" which (AFAIK) is an extension that limits the amount of torque that the impact can transmit. A quick way of putting on a lug nut/bolt without having to measure anything.

Of course, you hope they use the BMW/Porsche 100 ft/lb stick instead of the Ford truck 250 ft/lb stick.

Originally Posted by Griz

My general approach with HF is buy their stuff if you're prepared to buy it again due to failure.

HF is crap. It's the cheapest possible crap you can buy. If all you care about is cost, it's the best stuff out there. If you want a tool that you can rely on, one that will last for generations, then spend the money and buy something better made, preferably made in the USA or Germany or France. Yes, the French make some nice tools, like Facom.

HF is great for buying cheap stuff like tarps, zip ties, stuff like that. Nothing that you would want to bet your life on, like tools used for assembling brake components or wheels...

[Griz]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

As for the impact wrenches that most professional mechanics use, there is a thing called a "torque stick" which (AFAIK) is an extension that limits the amount of torque that the impact can transmit. A quick way of putting on a lug nut/bolt without having to measure anything.

If you're talking about torque limiting sockets, I thought I had read that they're not very accurate. I believe the recommended use was quickly getting lugs close to torque, and then still using a standard torque wrench to torque to spec. I believe I read it at GarageJournal... if you've never visited, then I apologize for the money you're about to spend.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by Griz

If you're talking about torque limiting sockets, I thought I had read that they're not very accurate. I believe the recommended use was quickly getting lugs close to torque, and then still using a standard torque wrench to torque to spec. I believe I read it at GarageJournal... if you've never visited, then I apologize for the money you're about to spend.

No, I'm referring to a torque stick, like this set here.

I concur, they're probably not accurate, but if you're working with book rates putting on 50 sets of wheels a day, you don't care.

Pros use them. A good pro will follow-up with a torque wrench. I'd suggest (although I have zero proof) that if you take your BMW to a shop and insist on them using a torque wrench, they will do so. If you take your F-150 to a shop and insist on a torque wrench, they will just laugh at you. "Dude, it's a truck."

Me personally, I know where my impact wrench will go (around 90 ft/lb) on setting #3 and I follow-up with my uncalibrated torque wrench.

[Griz]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

No, I'm referring to a torque stick, like this set here.

I think we're just referring to same thing by different names. Link.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by Griz

I think we're just referring to same thing by different names.

Ah, I see the problem. You live in the Midwest, and do weird things to your hot dogs and pizza. I live in the South, where everything is fried and ice tea only comes sweetened.




.

[Griz]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Ah, I see the problem. You live in the Midwest, and do weird things to your hot dogs and pizza. I live in the South, where everything is fried and ice tea only comes sweetened.




.

I'm not a native to Chicago. I love me some sweet tea, and simple syrup is easy enough to make.

As for hot dogs, mustard is the standard. I don't understand "Chicago style" dogs; the people here will ostracize folks for suggesting ketchup and then proceed to put tomatoes and other ridiculous stuff on their hot dogs.

Pizza? NY style and thin crust are the best. While I can appreciate Chicago style pizza, I'm generally not that patient (cook time) nor do I like the 2-3 day recovery time from eating 5 lbs of cheese.

Probably the biggest thing I'm missing about southern cooking is proper biscuits and gravy.

[DJ Hinson]

Spacers can warp rotors, even high quality spacers. Stick with the design created by highly compensated German engineers

Hi Shaun-

YES SPACERS CAN ABSOLUTELY CAUSE WARPED ROTORS.
HOW?
I will put this in layman’s terms.
Due to the changes in geometry and this signals your auto’s computer receives, the finely engineered safety systems, namely skid/traction control, can cause false and/or error signals to be sent to your cars computer which in turn activates your stability control. There is no magic here, anti-skid control is a system whereby your brakes are utilized (with different amounts of braking force applied to each tire rotor) to prevent loss of control. If you are driving and pushing the accelerator while at the same time your skid control is activate that is the same as pushing the brake pedal and accelerating at the same time.
The force of internal combustion (accelerating) whilst your calipers are clamping on your rotors, even slightly, CREATES TREMENDOUS HEAT. Said heat will absolutely WARP YOUR ROTORS. Ignore anyone who doesn’t understand such basic physics let alone auto knowledge should stick to shuffling papers and not offer advice. Happy motoring

[DJ Hinson]

YES SPACERS CAN ABSOLUTELY CAUSE WARPED ROTORS.
HOW?
I will put this in layman’s terms.
Due to the changes in geometry and this signals your auto’s computer receives, the finely engineered safety systems, namely skid/traction control, can cause false and/or error signals to be sent to your cars computer which in turn activates your stability control. There is no magic here, anti-skid control is a system whereby your brakes are utilized (with different amounts of braking force applied to each tire rotor) to prevent loss of control. If you are driving and pushing the accelerator while at the same time your skid control is activate that is the same as pushing the brake pedal and accelerating at the same time.
The force of internal combustion (accelerating) whilst your calipers are clamping on your rotors, even slightly, CREATES TREMENDOUS HEAT. Said heat will absolutely WARP YOUR ROTORS. Ignore anyone who doesn’t understand such basic physics let alone auto knowledge should stick to shuffling papers and not offer advice. Happy motoring
_——_————————————————————————————-


I went to the dealership yesterday to have them look at a few parts I want installed including an exhaust valve controller and spacers. They initially said they could install both no problem in an hour (1 hour labor) which I thought was very reasonable. They are going to call me on Monday and fit me in so I can wait for it while they do the work. I said cool and I was back in my car and ready to leave.

As I'm getting ready to pull out of the service bay area, my SA and another gentlemen who turns out to be the service manager stops me and wants to chat for a min about the spacers.

He said he would strongly advise against spacers because they can cause warped rotors. His logic was that with spacers the wheels are no longer sitting flush on the hubs and are more reliant on the lugs and nuts to stay attached to the vehicle. In other words, when you put spacers on, you are putting more pressure on the lugs because the wheels are sitting beyond the hub.

Is this true? I've never heard this and the spacers I have actually have a little extension so that the hub area where the wheels sit is actually extended as well. So my initial thought is that what he is saying is not true.

But experience would be the real test as to whether what he was saying was true. Has anyone run into issues with warped rotors while running spacers?

Thanks,
Shaun[/QUOTE]