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View Poll Results: DCT or traditional AT?
I prefer a DCT. 235 60.57%
I prefer a traditional AT. 32 8.25%
Either is fine with me. 53 13.66%
I don't care. No manual, no purchase. 68 17.53%
Voters: 388. You may not vote on this poll

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      08-06-2020, 09:16 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
So an automatic gearbox feels like an automatic gearbox to you?

What a surprise.
Not really.
But there is a suprising amount of people who say it's just as good as a DCT.
They are wrong imo.
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      08-07-2020, 12:30 AM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
Not really.
But there is a suprising amount of people who say it's just as good as a DCT.
They are wrong imo.
Definite "better"? ZF makes one of the best automatic transmissions.

How do they compare? To what?

What car has the same engine with DCT and ZF transmission available?

Please stop comparing F80 DCT to a F90 ZF transmission.

I don't want a F90 being jerky as my F82. An F90 is a upper class sport sedan.

The ZF is currently one of the best if not the best Automatic transmission on the market.

When the F90 was in developing the criteria was a totally different from the F8x, so I'm not supriced the transmission is more "soft" as the DCT. The M8C with the same gearbox is sprinting 0-60 in just 2.5 seconds... I mean what do you want more?
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      08-07-2020, 12:24 PM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Definite "better"? ZF makes one of the best automatic transmissions.

How do they compare? To what?

What car has the same engine with DCT and ZF transmission available?

Please stop comparing F80 DCT to a F90 ZF transmission.

I don't want a F90 being jerky as my F82. An F90 is a upper class sport sedan.

The ZF is currently one of the best if not the best Automatic transmission on the market.

When the F90 was in developing the criteria was a totally different from the F8x, so I'm not supriced the transmission is more "soft" as the DCT. The M8C with the same gearbox is sprinting 0-60 in just 2.5 seconds... I mean what do you want more?
The performance difference is negligible as I have pointed out numerous times before. I guess the only reason left is emotion and feeling of the shift (headbump instantly after pressing the pedal instead of delayed etc.). Can't argue with that, the DCT is more engaging. Overall for most of the buyers the ZF8 will be the better choice, but those are not the people compaining in this thread.

(And for gods sake do not reply with "those people that think the ZF8 is better shouldnt get the car." Your opinion doesn't matter for those people, because in fact the car does have the ZF8 lol)
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      08-07-2020, 12:32 PM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamingi View Post
The performance difference is negligible as I have pointed out numerous times before. I guess the only reason left is emotion and feeling of the shift (headbump instantly after pressing the pedal instead of delayed etc.). Can't argue with that, the DCT is more engaging. Overall for most of the buyers the ZF8 will be the better choice, but those are not the people compaining in this thread.

(And for gods sake do not reply with "those people that think the ZF8 is better shouldnt get the car." Your opinion doesn't matter for those people, because in fact the car does have the ZF8 lol)
My feelings exactly.
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      08-22-2020, 04:49 AM   #401
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When searching for another video I skipped through the German version of one of the promo videos. The advantage of the German version is, that the original audio is available. There are a few scenes where you can see and hear the shifts. It seems like the shifts are really fast. Faster than the X3M shifts posted here earlier for sure. Skip to 3:45

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      08-22-2020, 10:28 AM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamingi View Post
When searching for another video I skipped through the German version of one of the promo videos. The advantage of the German version is, that the original audio is available. There are a few scenes where you can see and hear the shifts. It seems like the shifts are really fast. Faster than the X3M shifts posted here earlier for sure. Skip to 3:45

Thanks for posting the video. Yes, it does really help to get a feel for how the transmission is responding under track driving conditions. But, I'm not sure how we can tell anything about downshift behavior/lag from the video since we can't see the driver's left hand?

I do agree that upshifts under acceleration seem reasonably good there (comparing sound of rev changes to the motion of the driver's fingers on the upshift paddle). But what it most encouraging to me is that the driver is actually able to use manual mode at all on a track! I have not previously seen a video where this was the case.

In many of the ring videos you can clearly hear the transmission downshifting on the exit of corners (suggesting full-auto). A lot of the in-car track footage is from MT cars - and that looks and sounds great, which give me a lot of faith that the engine is going to be fun.

...if only there was some video showing the left hand.
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      08-23-2020, 09:12 AM   #403
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The real question is how immediate the response on downshifts will be? Can I bang 3 gears down immediatelly? Will it shift as soon as I click the paddle? If so... no concern but I have not yet driven an auto that was as good as a dct... Porsche even keeps the DCT in a Macan... thats the real head scratcher if the auto is better more comfortable.
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      08-23-2020, 01:31 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
The real question is how immediate the response on downshifts will be? Can I bang 3 gears down immediatelly? Will it shift as soon as I click the paddle? If so... no concern but I have not yet driven an auto that was as good as a dct... Porsche even keeps the DCT in a Macan... thats the real head scratcher if the auto is better more comfortable.
Well the Macan is supposed to be the sporty SUV, so it makes sense to give it the DCT. For the Cayenne they do use the Tiptronic converter...

I guess you will not be able to bang 3 gears down immediately due to the nature of the planetary gears. The DCT basically being two automated manuals will always have the next gear available on the "other" manual transmission shaft and thus having double the time to prepare for the next shift. It will be faster when shifting multiple gears at once no matter if it's up or down (the planertary will only have the next predicted gear available, try shifting up while breaking it will take noticeably longer).

On most tracks this won't be an issue though, since braking/coasting zones will usually take much longer than the downshifts.
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      08-23-2020, 01:33 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamingi View Post
Well the Macan is supposed to be the sporty SUV, so it makes sense to give it the DCT. For the Cayenne they do use the Tiptronic converter...

I guess you will not be able to bang 3 gears down immediately due to the nature of the planetary gears. The DCT basically being two automated manuals will always have the next gear available on the "other" manual transmission shaft and thus having double the time to prepare for the next shift. It will be faster when shifting multiple gears at once no matter if it's up or down (the planertary will only have the next predicted gear available, try shifting up while breaking it will take noticeably longer).

On most tracks this won't be an issue though, since braking/coasting zones will usually take much longer than the downshifts.
The Cayenne get the AT mainly for towing capabilities. It’s also supposed to (and does) offer a relatively sporty experience.
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      08-23-2020, 02:43 PM   #406
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It is the sluggishness of zf8 especially manual mode that frustrates the vast majority here. Not whether the car is fast enough with DCT or ZF8.
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      09-20-2020, 08:56 PM   #407
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Bring back the DCT for M3/M4!!!
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      09-21-2020, 12:00 AM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
Bring back the DCT for M3/M4!!!
No one is going to get ZF slushbox RWD once AWD is out because people can't drive. It would have been interesting to see take rates of RWD DCT vs ZF8 AWD.
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      09-21-2020, 08:10 AM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
Bring back the DCT for M3/M4!!!
No one is going to get ZF slushbox RWD once AWD is out because people can't drive. It would have been interesting to see take rates of RWD DCT vs ZF8 AWD.
While I agree with you, my interest in AWD M3/4 is being able to drive the car all year round in Canadian winter.

While it's cool that my M2 sleeps protected away from salt and elements in my garage all winter, I always think about the 69k cad sitting there and me not enjoying it for almost half the year..

If reasoning and budget would not be of concern I would probably already have a 911 GTS AWD. For track duty I don't really care for AWD M4 but for year round enjoyment plus being track capable.. very eager to test drive one !
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      09-21-2020, 01:50 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
While I agree with you, my interest in AWD M3/4 is being able to drive the car all year round in Canadian winter.

While it's cool that my M2 sleeps protected away from salt and elements in my garage all winter, I always think about the 69k cad sitting there and me not enjoying it for almost half the year..

If reasoning and budget would not be of concern I would probably already have a 911 GTS AWD. For track duty I don't really care for AWD M4 but for year round enjoyment plus being track capable.. very eager to test drive one !
You can drive a RWD car year round in Canada without problems. You just need winter tires, which are mandatory anyway in Quebec.

Unless you are in a freak use case where you live at the end of a freakishly steep driveway, what limits a car's use in winter has a lot more to do with ground clearance than traction type.
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      09-21-2020, 04:08 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
You can drive a RWD car year round in Canada without problems. You just need winter tires, which are mandatory anyway in Quebec.

Unless you are in a freak use case where you live at the end of a freakishly steep driveway, what limits a car's use in winter has a lot more to do with ground clearance than traction type.
You can but there are instances where RWD and winter tires are not sufficient. I have driven an MR2 Turbo, Mustang GT, and M2 for full winter seasons and not had major issues however I also knew the limitations and didn't put myself in situations where I may have to stop on a steep incline or hill that's slippery or iced over. If the rear wheels lose grip it's over for RWD while for AWD it's much easier to get up steep inclines or not get stuck on slippery hills. I would personally opt for AWD being in Canada if it was going to be a daily driver. The BMW X-Drive is rear biased anyway so best of both worlds IMO and I imagine it will have a 2WD mode like the M5.
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      09-21-2020, 06:48 PM   #412
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Canada is not all the same, where I live in the "Appalachian" It's all hills.. I did live with RWD cars before but I ain't going back for winter use.

As much as I am biased on DCT (better on track) vs ZF8 (better daily) having owned M235xi and M2 afterwards and would love to see another DCT G80/82. I understand the switch for the AWD platform for BMW, they did all the development for the M5 and they are much cheaper than Porsche so it's normal there will be some compromise..
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      10-13-2020, 06:15 PM   #413
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Does anybody know if the AT transmission in the new G8Xs allows the brake to be let off without automatically engaging first, like in the DCT? Does their AT transmission allow for that or is it a traditional AT setup where the gear is engaged as soon as you're off the brake?

That was one of my favorite features of the DCT, a habit from all my previous MTs that luckily my F82 didn't have to break.
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      10-13-2020, 07:07 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jailonacs99 View Post
Does anybody know if the AT transmission in the new G8Xs allows the brake to be let off without automatically engaging first, like in the DCT? Does their AT transmission allow for that or is it a traditional AT setup where the gear is engaged as soon as you're off the brake?

That was one of my favorite features of the DCT, a habit from all my previous MTs that luckily my F82 didn't have to break.
Do you mean the creeping feature? Yes, all torque converters will do this, but you can just enable Auto Hold, which will -as the name suggests- hold the breaks for you, so you dont have to do it yourself.
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      10-14-2020, 01:45 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamingi View Post
Do you mean the creeping feature? Yes, all torque converters will do this, but you can just enable Auto Hold, which will -as the name suggests- hold the breaks for you, so you dont have to do it yourself.
Does that Auto-Hold keep the brakes depressed against the rotors? That's one of the things I'm trying to avoid if I'm e.g. running hot brakes on a hot day at the track. Guess it would just be a matter of shifting into neutral at a stop.
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      10-14-2020, 11:32 PM   #416
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I haven't driven an X5M or X6M for a year or two but if I recall they didn't creep
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      10-15-2020, 08:00 AM   #417
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I am a former MT fanboy who converted to PDK/DCT manual mode using the SHIFTER.

The 'engagement' I am after is (1) the ability to control shift points and (2) the ability to shift using a shifter. . . I do not miss the clutch and would not purchase PDK/DCT if manual mode required use of paddles.

As far as I know, the ZF8 allows for both (1) and (2) . . . so not sure I would notice much of a difference between DCT in my M2C vs ZF8 in G80/82?

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      10-15-2020, 08:29 AM   #418
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Quote:
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I am a former MT fanboy who converted to PDK/DCT manual mode using the SHIFTER.

The 'engagement' I am after is (1) the ability to control shift points and (2) the ability to shift using a shifter. . . I do not miss the clutch and would not purchase PDK/DCT if manual mode required use of paddles.

As far as I know, the ZF8 allows for both (1) and (2) . . . so not sure I would notice much of a difference between DCT in my M2C vs ZF8 in G80/82?

///AVM
I found the main two difference between my M235i (8zf) and my M2 (DCT) to be the slight delay from the ZF and the shifter on DCT felt a lot more similar to a short real M/T shifter.

I fear the G80 shifter will not be as great feeling but will reserve opinion for when I drive one..

I figure you would be sad owning a 992
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