09-27-2020, 07:48 PM | #23 | |
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I’ll tune this car so fast because it will feel sluggish compared to my old 6MT F80 given the weight. I’m also psyched that the X3M and X4M S58 tunes are performing nicely. Seeing 600 hp for a stage 1 tune! Just hope the f***ing clutch can hold it. |
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09-27-2020, 07:59 PM | #24 | |
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09-27-2020, 09:14 PM | #25 |
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I was very surprised when bmw didnt offer the current Z4 in a manual. To me that car needs it as an option even more than an M3/M4 because I see it as a second "summer" car. It must be that the number of people that are able to drive stick and in these markets is shrinking. Also the average person seems more concerned with remote starters than stick shift - and no mfg can solve remote start on MT. So I am somewhat surprised that this M3/M4 keeps it, and I wont be surprised at all if next gen is without it.
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09-27-2020, 11:09 PM | #26 |
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you want a manual M3,, u got a manual M3,, in the purest form imo.
AWD is not for the purists! 473 hp & 406 lb-ft is A LOT
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09-27-2020, 11:28 PM | #27 |
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If this is your first m3, it's great. Coming from f80 comp, it doesn't make the decision to get the new one easy. I want it based on looks, but I also.want it to perform better than my f80, and the numbers don't look like it does, acceleration wise.
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09-28-2020, 02:37 AM | #28 |
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I don't think 6MT sales will be affected all that much. 6MTs have been slower than DCTs and automatics for a long time now (basically since the E9x Ms). To have yet another generation where the 6MT is slower than the automatic M is not a huge deterrent to those who prefer a 6MT. Besides, the last gen was already plenty fast and the G8x is even faster - even the reduced power 6MT version will feel extremely fast.
To complicate matters, the fact that BMW got rid of the DCT may actually cause some enthusiasts to go back to the 6MT even with the reduced power. Personally, I'm a 6MT guy all the way. However, I had decided that I would just keep my F80 6MT to have the fun of shifting manually and get a G82 M4 in DCT as my next car... until I heard they were going to be slushbox automatics. I despise torque converter automatics so now I'm rethinking this and may go with a G80 6MT M3. I don't really care much that the 6MT will have less power. It is just a tune away from having more power than the comp pack cars. I know people are saying the new Bosch ECUs are uncrackable. I'm sure it will be cracked in the next 2-3 yrs when I'm ready for my G80 M3. In the meantime, I just got my crankhub fixed on my F80 M3 and waiting for a set of rims to arrive. Going to enjoy my F80 for a few more years! |
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09-28-2020, 06:33 AM | #30 |
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The days of me squaring next to every car on the road to see who's faster, are over.
It's me and my car. A well-tuned M3 6MT will be perfect.
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09-28-2020, 06:54 AM | #31 |
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"Crippled it." Right. You're about to be run off these forums as well lol.
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09-28-2020, 08:06 AM | #32 |
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If I end up with one I most likely will get the 6mt but then rely on aftermarket to bring the power up. I guess the engine upgrades will be able to be had somehow.
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09-28-2020, 08:26 AM | #33 |
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Horsepower jockeys crack me up. 500hp isn't enough. They want fast n furious. 10s seconds or less 1/4 mile and roll races on the highway like the 2000s. Tunes. Overnight parts. Race wars.
I test drove the new 992 before deciding it wasn't for me. That car was so fast that it was boring to drive. I couldn't even ring out the engine, it's just instant illegal speeds. Can't even have fun. I've been through this with motorcycles as well. I want a balanced and engaging road car. Probably part of the reason they detuned the engine with the 6MT is for balance and control. The ZF can be tuned and calibrated along with the AWD system for all kinds of control. The 6MT probably transfers power more directly anyway. Weight savings, ect. I'm totally cool with the power specs on the 6MT, I'm happy it's offered and it will probably end up being the one everyone wants in the end. |
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09-28-2020, 09:23 AM | #34 |
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The new Cadillac CT5 Blackwing will be offered in a manual with 4 doors and with more HP than the G80.
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09-28-2020, 09:27 AM | #35 |
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RS4, RS5, RS6 and RS7 all went 8AT.
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09-28-2020, 11:06 AM | #36 |
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The manual even if it had the exact same power rating as the auto was always going to the the slower car.. slower off the line and slower on the track.
Raw performance is not what a manual is about, a manual is about the experience and fun of rowing your own gears and manipulating the clutch. The way I see it is, in order to make the best version of that experience available but with realistic ROI for a for profit company with shareholders and governance, they reused a good manual transmission design from the F8x which has a torque limit vs the box they installed on the f10 which can handle more torque but the shifting experience was worse. |
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09-28-2020, 11:50 AM | #37 |
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RS5, 6 and 7 are all very heavy, soft cars so the ZF is well suited for them. RS4 is a pipe dream here in the US. Wish they would have brought over the RS4 avant instead of the RS6. I'd be all over that car.
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09-28-2020, 11:52 AM | #38 |
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My faith in humanity has somewhat been restored by many of the comments here. Manual buyers do not care about 0-60 or whatever, they care about the driving experience. Why is the Miata so heavily lauded? It is slow as hell, but it is also one of the most fun cars I have driven, without the risk at been thrown in jail.
BMW has also made the fact that basically all of the options offered on the comp, can be added to the non-comp (other than power bump). This is phenomenal and it shows BMW does care for the manual.
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09-28-2020, 12:24 PM | #39 |
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IMO the amount of power is fine in the MT form. Most manual buyers aren't spreadsheet racers and probably aren't visiting the track as much as the auto buyers pretend to. In the end we can always add a little tune to it. I suspect the issue isn't transmission torque rating (when was the last time you heard of an F8x blowing it's 6MT), but the clutch which is also something easily dealt with in the aftermarket.
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09-28-2020, 12:31 PM | #40 | |
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I think this 6MT and Auto model disdiction will further differentiate the type of buyers. I know I'll be giving more props to a G8x owner with 6MT. |
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09-28-2020, 12:40 PM | #41 |
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I don't think it's a poisonous dagger or anything like that. I see the M3 and M3 comp as the same cars. The comp is just a more hardcore version that will give you a competitive edge at the race track. If you want the fastest lap times, the manual aint gonna do it anyway.
If people really want a manual, I would hope that they wouldn't cancel their plan because it's only available in the non-comp trim. |
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09-28-2020, 02:27 PM | #42 | |
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09-28-2020, 02:58 PM | #43 |
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Well I feel like it's friggin Christmas time! 2021 M3/4 will still offer a manual! Long after its competitors have given up on any kind of manual.
Like others have said, switching the DCT for the 8sp ZF is a bigger deal for me. Regarding the AWD comment... M cars are not supposed to be AWD. Unfortunately we had the Audi guy as head of the M division for a while and this is where we are, but AWD is an Audi thing. Thank God they still decided to make a real RWD version for those of us who can drive. |
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09-28-2020, 06:35 PM | #44 | |
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This set up may actually increase the relative 6MT take rate unless the car is hamstrung in some other way. |
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