[vbb]

I’ve been a member of this forum for a long time (17 years and counting!), and one question that seems to come up weekly is someone asking whether they should get a Porsche instead of their current BMW M car.

First, let’s start with the obvious. M cars and Porsche sports cars are made for people that want more than a tool to get from point A to B. These vehicles are made for people that care about driving dynamics (not just straight-line speed) and they also care at some level about brand prestige and quality. Both companies are competing for the same, or similar audiences. Car reviewers have been comparing the two since the magazine days, so It’s natural to get drawn into fray.

So, are you a current M owner that is considering the “inevitable” upgrade to a Porsche? I’m going to make the case for why you should keep your M, from someone who has owned and driven both.

1. Money is a factor. Let’s get real, for 99% of us, money means something. In these threads there’s always a few people that will flex or humble-brag about what they can afford, but the reality is most of us here would notice if $50K (or more) went missing from their bank accounts. While the MSRP of a new base model 911 has always been around 30% more than that of the same year M3, there are other factors that widen that gap. If you were to trade in a year old M3 on a bare-bones new Porsche 911, you would likely need to come out of pocket a minimum of $50K. When you consider options, chances are high that the new 911 would cost you double your trade value on your M3, or more. That’s real money to all but the ultra-rich.

2. Be honest, you’re not going to the track. Even if you’re among the relatively few people that have the disposable income (or lack of aversion to debt) to afford a new or late model 911, you’re not going to be tracking it regularly, if at all. Going to track events are time consuming and expensive. Most people are not going to be able to commit to any regular track days, and if they do, they’re almost certainly going to drive something cheaper and set up for track use. That brings me to #3.

3. Your M car does car things better. Most of the threads I read aren’t people considering a base model 911. M owners are usually looking at upgrading to the GT3, GT4 or a Carrera T and maybe the Cayman GTS 4.0 as their next car. None of those cars are going to do your daily car duties better than what you already have. I don’t drive my M4 daily, but it is not atypical that when I do, I’ll drive it in traffic, or shuttling one of my kids to and fro, or to pick up something from the store, or to commute to work. None of those things would be easier or more fun in a GT3.

4. Your M car can handle more spirited driving than you’re capable of throwing at it. I’m going out on a short limb in assuming that while most of us don’t track our cars, we DO enjoy backroads, canyon, country driving from time to time. Unless you like jail, I’m guessing that your M car can handle way more of that than you could or reasonably should give it. Go drive your car hard through the backroads… I promise you that your smile will be just as wide and your heart rate just as elevated as if you did it in that 911 you’re dreaming about.

5. You can’t “win” your local Cars & Coffee. People tend not to admit this online, but I know that another motivating factor for some Porsche buyers is the clout that comes with owning such a car. Nobody cares. At most hard parking events, the cars that garner the most attention are either very rare, very expensive or very modified. There was a GT2RS that regularly attended a local event in my area, both rare and expensive, and people would walk right past it. Again, I know if asked, nobody would claim that they are seeking attention by their car purchase. But I know better. The desire to be seen is definitely a reason that many people buy nice cars. Your GT3 is going to blend in almost as much as an M3 Competition will.

I’m not a hater, and I’m not saying never get a Porsche. If you are planning on tracking, if you’re only looking for a toy that you will drive occasionally, if you’re trying to maximize your resale value or if you already have a lot of money, the Porsche, and especially a GT product, will be a better car to have. But if that is you, you probably aren’t here on this forum anyway. I’m speaking to the current M owners that are dreaming about owning a GT3 or other special Porsche one day. I’m speaking to myself and people like me, that probably search for “used GT3 within a 500mi radius” online at least once a week. I’ve been there. I am there. But at the end of the day, I’ve just concluded that my M4 makes way more sense for me, and probably would for most of you.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

[astroricardo]

9000 RPM... that sound behind you.

[White340XDriveInCt]

Originally Posted by vbb

You can’t “win” your local Cars & Coffee. People tend not to admit this online, but I know that another motivating factor for some Porsche buyers is the clout that comes with owning such a car. Nobody cares.

Solid points...Having just owned a 991.2 GTS for nearly a couple of years (and absolutely loving the car for a variety of obvious reasons), I can say you're def on to something. As much as I loved the car inside and out, sure there was a part of me that was like, "Ya know, I've stepped into the big boy leagues now..." I mean, how could you NOT feel that way a little, right?? But, then what happens? Some dude with a flatter belly, bigger wallet, and gorgeous 10 years younger "friend" shows up at the C&C driving a 992 GT3RS and suddenly your "cool factor" has deflated like a sad balloon at some fat kid's birthday party.

I love these cars...all of them. I've loved all my M3's and I'm really starting to love the G80 (other than the soon-to-be-replaced squeaky brakes and somewhat clunky Autobox), and they ARE much more sensible for everyday use, but as much as you might be the big shot at the local meetup, where everyone has project cars and the shiniest one there is a new Stinger, as soon as you roll that G80 into a larger event, there's sure to be peeps in GT3's, Lambos, and McLaren's that are drawing the "fans" away from your G80. It's just the nature of that world.

So what's the solution? For me, it will be owning a GT3 AND the the G80...but that will take some time. When it happens, I'll also be sure to make a bumper sticker for the back of the G80 that says, "Yeah, but I also have a GT3 at home!"

[forcefed]

Originally Posted by White340XDriveInCt

As much as I loved the car inside and out, sure there was a part of me that was like, "Ya know, I've stepped into the big boy leagues now..." I mean, how could you NOT feel that way a little, right?? But, then what happens? Some dude with a flatter belly, bigger wallet, and gorgeous 10 years younger "friend" shows up at the C&C driving a 992 GT3RS and suddenly your "cool factor" has deflated like a sad balloon at some fat kid's birthday party.

The trick is to not show up to a Porsche meet with your gt3, just go to the bmw/audi/benz meets... you'll be the coolest one there

[pizza240]

For the most part, I agree. But GT3s and Turbos are on another level, and I think that needs to be mentioned. When comparing an M to anything "GTS-or-less", the Ms are always winners for me. Price does matter, yes... And for less, you are getting some serious performance and every day usability in the M cars that you just won't get in a 'plain' 911 or a Cayman. The M cars are simply more fun and usable.

[mjj]

A lot of truth and logic in the original post.

In the end for me it is about experience. How does it make me feel. That comes in various forms. There is the pure adrenaline rush from really getting on the car to making me feel like I have something unique that other people notice which tends to spark conversation. I just like talking cars with other people regardless of what they drive. Probably why I was insistent on a special order color.

At my age, I have crossed the mid-point in life. I am buying what makes me feel good regardless of what others tell me I should buy. In the next 3 years I plan to have both an M4 and a GT3.

[/ / / M3]

Originally Posted by vbb

5. You can’t “win” your local Cars & Coffee. People tend not to admit this online, but I know that another motivating factor for some Porsche buyers is the clout that comes with owning such a car. Nobody cares. At most hard parking events, the cars that garner the most attention are either very rare, very expensive or very modified. There was a GT2RS that regularly attended a local event in my area, both rare and expensive, and people would walk right past it. Again, I know if asked, nobody would claim that they are seeking attention by their car purchase. But I know better. The desire to be seen is definitely a reason that many people buy nice cars. Your GT3 is going to blend in almost as much as an M3 Competition will.

If you go on Rennlist, you'll quickly realize that this is the main reason why 90% of Porsche owners bought their cars.

[White340XDriveInCt]

Originally Posted by forcefed

The trick is to not show up to a Porsche meet with your gt3, just go to the bmw/audi/benz meets... you'll be the coolest one there

I def was the "hero" of some of the local meetups with the GTS...but then again most of them have solid respect/awe for the G80. Overall, lots of cool peeps in the car scene. Just. a few knobs here and there that spoil it for others

[kev7c7]

On #4, I would add that the speed and “how hard you push your car” is irrelevant. The feeling you get is what matters, and I imagine having a GT3 going the same low speeds but with that high revving NA engine hits different. Likewise less capable but more characterful cars would be more enjoyable too.

The reason I stay with my G80 is because it’s an all in one car and I currently have space/money for one car.

[5ilver-5amurai]

The GT3 really is a beautiful car that will turn a lot of heads, but Porsche is just like BMW. They have their soccer mom fleet, first 6 figure salary cars, etc. There is something about seeing a beautiful GT3 or 911 Turbo that makes you turn your head, but just like any beautiful M car or AMG - you'll move on once it's out of sight.

My 2 cents - as crazy as it may sound, if I'm upgrading from an M car...like truly upgrading to the next level, I'm setting my eyes on a Ferrari, Lamborghini (ignoring the Urus which seems to be the car if choice for all illegal operations in my area), or a McLaren.

['Cane]

We need a new thread about this? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[vbb]

Originally Posted by 'Cane

We need a new thread about this? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yep. Next I'm doing one on manual vs. automatic transmissions. Set your notifications accordingly!

[ash_schwin]

It is funny because I always thought that during my car buying / owning journey that getting a 911 would be the 'holy grail'. GT3 is still one of my all time dream cars.

Bought my first 911 two years ago and it was a great feeling to be able to daily drive the car even though it was a base model. As grateful as I was to finally be in a P-car, it quickly became a 'keeping up with the Joneses' situation as other have said since there was always someone with a better / newer / more special P-car. Realized I was sacrificing a lot of personal comfort / drivability and gave up on a LOT of modern daily driving conveniences.

I am not in a position to have two paid off toys at this point in my life so I am currently enjoying the hell out of my G80 M3. I will at some point get my dream GT3 but it will definitely not be my only car in the stable.

[PabstBleuRibbon]

Originally Posted by vbb

I’m speaking to myself and people like me, that probably search for “used GT3 within a 500mi radius” online at least once a week.

I feel seen

[dazed2day]

At the risk of humble bragging, I have both an M3 Comp xDrive and a Ferrari F8 Tributo. Of course the F8 is in a different world performance and driving dynamics-wise, and it's as special as you would imagine.

But, I also looooove my M3. It's got an excitement to it that's different, but still very engaging. In some ways it feels more raw than the F8. The way you can customize the transmission and shifting to be very aggressive - something you can't do in the F8 - can make the car just feel like it's edgy all the time (which I love). The F8 just always feels composed.

And as much as I think about, and want to get both cars to the track, it's still been an elusive endeavor. I think I'd only track the F8 in a private track day with very limited number of cars on the track. I'm far more willing to take the M3 out - just need to find the time.

I too check out 911's all too often. I've only driven a base model for a few miles, so I don't have a basis to say how good they are, or how they compare to the M3 or F8. And in any case, the prices now are just insane. I couldn't justify paying almost 180k for a nicely spec'd GTS. I can't imagine it's that special of a car... but maybe I'd change my mind if I got to drive one. But that's where the Porsche buying experience comes in and completely turns me off of the brand.

Anyway, this is all just to say that the M3 is a truly fantastic car and price for performance/experience, it's the best sub-super car on the market... imho.

[mjj]

Originally Posted by dazed2day

At the risk of humble bragging, I have both an M3 Comp xDrive and a Ferrari F8 Tributo. Of course the F8 is in a different world performance and driving dynamics-wise, and it's as special as you would imagine.

But, I also looooove my M3. It's got an excitement to it that's different, but still very engaging. In some ways it feels more raw than the F8. The way you can customize the transmission and shifting to be very aggressive - something you can't do in the F8 - can make the car just feel like it's edgy all the time (which I love). The F8 just always feels composed.

And as much as I think about, and want to get both cars to the track, it's still been an elusive endeavor. I think I'd only track the F8 in a private track day with very limited number of cars on the track. I'm far more willing to take the M3 out - just need to find the time.

I too check out 911's all too often. I've only driven a base model for a few miles, so I don't have a basis to say how good they are, or how they compare to the M3 or F8. And in any case, the prices now are just insane. I couldn't justify paying almost 180k for a nicely spec'd GTS. I can't imagine it's that special of a car... but maybe I'd change my mind if I got to drive one. But that's where the Porsche buying experience comes in and completely turns me off of the brand.

Anyway, this is all just to say that the M3 is a truly fantastic car and price for performance/experience, it's the best sub-super car on the market... imho.

GTS are now showing up for 220+.

The F8 is a different story. Congrats on your success.

488 Pista is my ultimate goal. My wife hasn’t approved that kind of expenditure yet.

[GabesSlowM4]

Funny how some of you say, "you've made it or you're in the big leagues when you move up into a Porsche" This is how I felt when I moved up from My s550 Mustang GT to the BMW M4! I guess it's true what they always say! Someone is always gonna be more handsome, better shape, and have more money! Although i'll argue on the handsome part

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by GabesSlowM4

Funny how some of you say, "you've made it or you're in the big leagues when you move up into a Porsche" This is how I felt when I moved up from My s550 Mustang GT to the BMW M4! I guess it's true what they always say! Someone is always gonna be more handsome, better shape, and have more money! Although i'll argue on the handsome part

As with everything in life, it's all a matter of perspective.

For many around the world, owning a Camry would signify them "making it".

"Learn to appreciate what you have, before time makes you appreciate what you had."

[supershaft]

I'm a long time BMW fanboy. Still am. I bought nothing but BMW for 21 years. Their quality has gone downhill but that's besides the point. They don't make the car I want. They can make all the M3s they want but until they make a rear/mid engine sports car there's more to experience with other brands.

Life is too short to settle and pretend the 911 doesn't exist. Doesn't matter if you don't track the car you can still carve up some sick roads in either car to have fun.

I went from 2 straight generations of M5s to a RS7 which the RS7 quite frankly sucked then back to another F90 M5. For my 40th birthday I went out and bought a base 992 carrera and I'd be lying if I said the M5 didn't sit for weeks in my garage. In fact the TLDR is that you don't need a Porsche GT car to "step up" when a base carrera was some of the most fun I ever had because you could wind it out and still be kinda legal.

Full disclosure: I do own a 992 GT3 now but I went from the base 992 to a tuned 4S 992 that was putting down about 550HP to my now GT3 because that noisemaker in the back goes to 9000rpm and we don't have many of those types of things these days.

Don't get me wrong the M3 is a great value and to be fair I much prefer the M2 these days because good and fun driving dynamics is so much more valuable than simply going fast.

And finally let's be honest. If you don't have to choose most if not all would have a 911/Cayman in their garage next to their BMW.

[BRAKE!]

Hey I went from a BMW (albeit) an older one to a 718 GT4. I did it while I was contemplating a G87 M2 purchase and after having attended the 2 day M school... well once I got to drive a coworkers 991.1 GT3 and then a 718 GT4 manual, I could never look at BMW the same way again.

The Porsche was an 'experience' (that DFI engine at 9k RPM or that 6 speed manual with a rifle bolt action). Then I went to the Porsche track experience at Birmingham and it sealed the deal. Driving a Porsche around a track was vastly different to driving M cars on track. I see that you've had Pcars before so I'll save you further details.

I do understand your point though. If I didn't have my GT4 and I had a M3/4 instead, I think I would be completely happy with it. The G8X chassis is much more stable than the F chassis and the S58 is a monster of an engine. But, I do get why ppl lust after a GT3, that engine is worth the price alone. If you have never driven it, please try to do so. As a car lover, it'll change your life.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by BRAKE!

The Porsche was an 'experience' (that DFI engine at 9k RPM or that 6 speed manual with a rifle bolt action). Then I went to the Porsche track experience at Birmingham and it sealed the deal. Driving a Porsche around a track was vastly different to driving M cars on track. I see that you've had Pcars before so I'll save you further details.

The bottom line is that the 911 is a purpose-built, well-evolved, well-resolved (over many decades) sports car.

No matter how well-engineered an M chassis is, no matter how glorious the engine (high-revving V8s, motorsport-inspired V10s, easily-tunable S58s, etc.), no matter how much weight is reduced...the foundation of most M cars has been a basic 3- or 5-series. So M cars come with plenty of compromises that the engineers must overcome. And the engineers do a pretty good job at the task, IMO.

But...

It ain't a purpose-built sports car.

For pure driving enthusiasts, a GT3 is indeed life-changing. It resets the bar. Is a normal GT3 worth $300k? Nope, though 'worth' is in the eye of the beholder. But certainly, a GT3 is indeed a highly-elevated driving experience...on the road and on a track.

I love my G82 for everything it is, and as a daily sporty car, it's hard to beat. I want to drive my G82 across the country, on an 8,500-mile trip. And it can do it easily, comfortably, fairly efficiently and can become utterly exhilarating at the touch of an M button. I would never take such a trip in a GT3, it's just wayyy too long to spend in a GT3 unless you have an ultra-high tolerance (and mine is pretty high).

So I will get every ounce of use and fun out of my G82, and if I'm lucky, I will move on to a GT3, but it will serve a different purpose. Both M cars and 911s can produce many smiles per mile, but the elevated sensation and feel of a GT3 for a pure driving enthusiast, it's on another level.

[BRAKE!]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

I love my G82 for everything it is, and as a daily sporty car, it's hard to beat. I want to drive my G82 across the country, on an 8,500-mile trip. And it can do it easily, comfortably, fairly efficiently and can become utterly exhilarating at the touch of an M button. I would never take such a trip in a GT3, it's just wayyy too long to spend in a GT3 unless you have an ultra-high tolerance (and mine is pretty high).

So I will get every ounce of use and fun out of my G82, and if I'm lucky, I will move on to a GT3, but it will serve a different purpose. Both M cars and 911s can produce many smiles per mile, but the elevated sensation and feel of a GT3 for a pure driving enthusiast, it's on another level.

Kev, I agree with what you're saying 100%. There are definitely things you can do in a M car that you probably couldn't replicate in a GT car - things like taking a long trip. I feel like you fall in love with M car for all that it can do - the smile it brings when you realize how special it is amongst the bland cars out on the road and that it can do wild things at the same time. That and if you're into drag racing from stop lights, you can kick some ass w/ the S58.

Even though I own a Pcar, I am still a BMW enthusiast at heart - there's not a time where I don't take a second look at a M2/3/4/5/6/8 out on the road.