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      09-24-2020, 02:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mosef81 View Post
Surely there has to be a bit of insanity with this purchase. I specced an m4 comp with the ultimate pack (needed to make the looks tolerable) and it came out to £87605.. I then went to Porsche and specced out a base 911 (porsche code PM1UC3S7) and it came out to £91422. Now tell me with hand on heart that the driving experiences will be comparable, or the looks of the m4 really seduce you over that of a 992. For the final nail in the coffin, which do you think will pose the better resale prospect?

So I reiterate the question from the OP, why are you guys doing this to yourselves?

The only way I will go back to BMW for another m4 is if they discount it by £10000... Little hope for that.
Can't speak for the UK, but here in the US a well equipped M3/M4 will be in the $85k range. A lightly optioned base 911 will be $120k easy. In addition to that BMW is historically more aggressive in incentives/dealer discounts.

So I don't think the comparison can be made. If they were both priced similarly - sure I'll take the 911. But with a $35k-$40k difference in price - that changes the picture quite a bit.
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      09-24-2020, 09:54 PM   #24
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911s aren’t comparable in the Australian market either.
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      09-24-2020, 10:05 PM   #25
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We want one so we can improve on it.
Tell us about those plans...
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      09-24-2020, 10:25 PM   #26
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I'm currently in a m550 xdrive lease that ends next year in sept. I have gotten to a point in my life that I can tick the box of owning a M3. No kids wife and I work and with covid we are saving a ton of money not traveling like we usually do. Had an M3 poster on my wall as a kid (obviously not a G8x) and always said THAT is my ultimate ownership car. I'm seriously thinking of buying and keeping it long term. I work 100% from home so miles will be low.

I actually don't hate the styling and glad we aren't stuck in a rut and trying new things. They don't always work but at least bmw is taking some risks with style.
Engine should be fantastic and this is my daily driver too so AWD for me.
The Isle of Man green just locked it in for me. I have been a blue BMW fan since 2006 and I think it's time to switch.
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      09-26-2020, 02:59 PM   #27
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Never owned a M car before and never owned new. After purchasing 5 7 series over the years, I am looking to make a change. I am considering a used F90 but am really wanting a new BMW this time around and the M3 is really ticking all the boxes for me. My budget limit is 85k, Im just trying to decide which way I want to go.
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      09-26-2020, 03:19 PM   #28
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Tell us about those plans...
They'll start with a re-body.
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      09-27-2020, 12:02 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosef81 View Post
Surely there has to be a bit of insanity with this purchase. I specced an m4 comp with the ultimate pack (needed to make the looks tolerable) and it came out to £87605.. I then went to Porsche and specced out a base 911 (porsche code PM1UC3S7) and it came out to £91422. Now tell me with hand on heart that the driving experiences will be comparable, or the looks of the m4 really seduce you over that of a 992. For the final nail in the coffin, which do you think will pose the better resale prospect?

So I reiterate the question from the OP, why are you guys doing this to yourselves?

The only way I will go back to BMW for another m4 is if they discount it by £10000... Little hope for that.
If you're buying, agree! Majority are leasing and BMW residuals substantially impact monthly versus Porsche. If driving experience comes first, agree! But many will say "but wait, I want all of the interior/tech upgrades" and that increases the $$ delta between the two cars. Small minority are basing purchase decision exclusively on driving experience.
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      09-27-2020, 01:59 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosef81 View Post
Surely there has to be a bit of insanity with this purchase. I specced an m4 comp with the ultimate pack (needed to make the looks tolerable) and it came out to £87605.. I then went to Porsche and specced out a base 911 (porsche code PM1UC3S7) and it came out to £91422. Now tell me with hand on heart that the driving experiences will be comparable, or the looks of the m4 really seduce you over that of a 992. For the final nail in the coffin, which do you think will pose the better resale prospect?

So I reiterate the question from the OP, why are you guys doing this to yourselves?

The only way I will go back to BMW for another m4 is if they discount it by £10000... Little hope for that.
Can't speak for the UK, but here in the US a well equipped M3/M4 will be in the $85k range. A lightly optioned base 911 will be $120k easy. In addition to that BMW is historically more aggressive in incentives/dealer discounts.

So I don't think the comparison can be made. If they were both priced similarly - sure I'll take the 911. But with a $35k-$40k difference in price - that changes the picture quite a bit.
Agree. I have tried a few times to move to a 911 and every time I spec one out it's well into 110-130k. On price there is no comparison for US based buyers.
I'm also not solely looking for this to track and it will be my daily driver so driving dynamics is important but I want some gadgets and comfort too. M3 always seems to be my natural ending up point.
I'm very serious about buying this one. Been leasing and it's fine but there were a few cars I really fell in love with. I think this will be one for me.
Current Lease is up for me in September of 2021 so plenty of time to see one in person etc.
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      09-27-2020, 02:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Geektechlive View Post
Agree. I have tried a few times to move to a 911 and every time I spec one out it's well into 110-130k. On price there is no comparison for US based buyers.
I'm also not solely looking for this to track and it will be my daily driver so driving dynamics is important but I want some gadgets and comfort too. M3 always seems to be my natural ending up point.
I'm very serious about buying this one. Been leasing and it's fine but there were a few cars I really fell in love with. I think this will be one for me.
Current Lease is up for me in September of 2021 so plenty of time to see one in person etc.
Yup the Porsche tax is real. I was cross-shopping a Cayenne to my X5, and option for option the Cayenne was $20k more - and even then it was missing a few options.

Porsche's also don't lease very well, so you're pretty much forced to purchase whether you want to or not. I used to purchase all my cars but these most recent ones I've decided to lease and I think I'll continue leasing. I love my m340 but I know I'll start getting the itch in another couple years to see what else there is.

I'm also very serious about the M3 and am hoping in a year or two we'll start to see some really good incentives and discounts.
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      09-27-2020, 07:12 PM   #32
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I want a manual transmission 400+ hp car... not many choices
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      09-27-2020, 08:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
I want the S58 in the smallest package ie G87....
Ditto, I hope it doesn't gain any weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
despite all the trashing on the weight of the M4/M3, it has a better power to weight ratio than the prior gen

Not quite. Using the lightest versions of each car according to official BMW specs:

G80 M3(Non-Competition):
Weight, unladen, to DIN/EU - 1705kg
Max Output (kW/hp) - 353 / 480
Power-to-weight ratio (DIN) - 4.8 kg/kW

G82 M4(Non-Competition):
Weight, unladen, to DIN/EU - 1700kg
Max Output (kW/hp) - 353 / 480
Power-to-weight ratio (DIN) - 4.8 kg/kW

F80 M3 (Non-Competition):
Weight, unladen, to DIN/EU - 1520kg
Max Output (kW/hp) - 317 / 431
Power-to-weight ratio (DIN) - 4.79 kg/kW

F82 M4 (Non-Competition):
Weight, unladen, to DIN/EU - 1497kg
Max Output (kW/hp) - 317 / 431
Power-to-weight ratio (DIN) - 4.72 kg/Kw

The F8X generation is has a slightly better power-to-weight ratio, which only tells a portion of the story. Physics is physics, and power doesn't come into play from corner entry through mid-corner, and only after the apex on corner exit.


Sources:

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...16649EN/461042

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...16649EN/461043

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...79962EN/265695
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Last edited by jmg; 09-27-2020 at 08:35 PM..
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      09-27-2020, 08:39 PM   #34
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When people say the S58 is a "material" improvement over the S55, what so they mean?

The S55 w a slight tune is just as good in every way and revs higher... except maybe the crankhub issue.
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      09-27-2020, 08:59 PM   #35
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When people say the S58 is a "material" improvement over the S55, what so they mean?

The S55 w a slight tune is just as good in every way and revs higher... except maybe the crankhub issue.
Here is a detuned version of the G8x engine in the SUV format and dynos have shown 80whp+ gain from similarly tuned S58 over S55

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      09-27-2020, 09:03 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
When people say the S58 is a "material" improvement over the S55, what so they mean?

The S55 w a slight tune is just as good in every way and revs higher... except maybe the crankhub issue.
Here is a detuned version of the G8x engine in the SUV format

Great, there is already a 9 second 1/4 mile S55... at the standard power levels, its almost an irrelevant discussion...

We can just safely assume the s58 has a stronger tune from the factory however there was also a 500 hp S55 in the GTS. All out the S58 should be better due to a lower compression but for 99% of M3 owners that will have almost no meaning... at least up to the 600hp range.
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      09-27-2020, 09:05 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Great, there is already a 9 second 1/4 mile S55... at the standard power levels, its almost an irrelevant discussion...

We can just safely assume the s58 has a stronger tune from the factory however there was also a 500 hp S55 in the GTS. All out the S58 should be better due to a lower compression but for 99% of M3 owners that will have almost no meaning... at least up to the 600hp range.
dynos are at 650whp for s58 with gas change and stage 1 before fbo. i have no idea where the overhead is for S58 and we likely won't know for years
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      09-27-2020, 09:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Great, there is already a 9 second 1/4 mile S55... at the standard power levels, its almost an irrelevant discussion...

We can just safely assume the s58 has a stronger tune from the factory however there was also a 500 hp S55 in the GTS. All out the S58 should be better due to a lower compression but for 99% of M3 owners that will have almost no meaning... at least up to the 600hp range.
dynos are at 650whp for s58 with gas change and stage 1 before fbo. i have no idea where the overhead is for S58 and we likely won't know for years
What you are saying is true... I just don't know what relevance tbat has for 99% of people.

And stock for stock, power to weight will be somewhat similar because the S58 will be riding in a significanrly heavier car.
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      09-27-2020, 09:08 PM   #39
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I started out in 2015 with a 528i x-drive then moved to a 430i x-drive in 2018. I was finally ready to buy a convertible for the first time in my life, but with adding on a 16 year old boy at the time, the insurance premiums were going to get crazy with a M4. In addition, I live in Chicago so a RWD car was a big "no" since it is also my daily driver, so I stuck with the x-drive. Now, I have one in college, a 16 year old and a 13 year old and am ready for a different driving experience, so I am going to splurge. My wife insists on having a convertible. We looked at the new Z4M but couldn't justify having 2 seats and RWD. When I read I could get a M4 convertible with AWD, the decision was made! Now I just have to wait for it to be released!

I love the Frozen Grey, but not sure if I want to have a matte paint on a daily driver car that will be in the snow. I'd have to spend another $8K to wrap it in addition to the $4K paint premium. I saw 3 matte cars in Lexington, KY visiting our son at UK and I was envious, but I know it's a problem waiting to happen.... and an expensive one! I hope someone can talk me off the ledge! Otherwise, it's back to the Sapphire Black for me... I love it.
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      09-27-2020, 09:13 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
What you are saying is true... I just don't know what relevance tbat has for 99% of people.

And stock for stock, power to weight will be somewhat similar because the S58 will be riding in a significanrly heavier car.
I think it may depend on transmission or completion model choice, but one thing is for certain is that it will handle worse unless Munich is able to conjure up some sorcery for the suspension, which is unlikely.
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      09-28-2020, 10:56 PM   #41
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this will be my first M car or anything in this performance category so im very excited!

as to why, pretty easy decision once you get past the looks... the competition is either getting long in the tooth (W205 C63, RCF), not dynamic enough (B9 RS5), or missing overall execution at being a good "car" (def talking Giulia QF, maybe the Cadillac Blackwing as well based on V-series reviews so far).

Did look at Porsche. Specifically very intrigued by the Cayman GTS 4.0. But a very disciplined "poverty" spec with few features would still run you >100k CAD. Maybe when I can have 2 cars I shall source one Also asked about a Macan GTS, funny thing is for about same price as this you are giving up a lot of power and performance for the Porsche "chassis magic" and the badge.


And on pricing, this car is very well priced in Canada vs competition. I just hope leasing numbers aren't as atrocious as they are on F97/F98 for 2021....
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      09-29-2020, 09:35 AM   #42
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Because it has 10 stage traction control and AMG only got 9
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      09-29-2020, 10:03 AM   #43
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Because it has 10 stage traction control and AMG only got 9
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      09-29-2020, 10:06 AM   #44
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Im excited to get into the new model and also to enjoy the modding process aka blowing tons of money then selling it later at a huge loss haha
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