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      09-23-2020, 04:18 PM   #1
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Why is BMW M going in a new direction?

I was almost trying to start to accept the grills. Then the M-performance parts show up.

What are your thoughts about why BMW M is going in this direction?
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      09-23-2020, 04:36 PM   #2
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It is to clearly differentiate the M4 series from the M8 since they are practically the same size now.
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      09-23-2020, 04:54 PM   #3
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It does make you wonder because it wasn't a binary choice, the final design or nothing. The front end from the CSL Homage(?) would have differentiated the M3/4 from the other models.

It makes you wonder what designs were rejected. Some of the journos say that it makes sense and looks aggressive IRL. I hope that's the case.
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      09-24-2020, 10:44 PM   #4
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At least on the M4, the styling is coming from the i4 concept car and creating a niche for the new EV push, differentiating it from the 3 series. That I can understand and appreciate.

Not sure why they decided to use the new front styling on the M3.
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      09-24-2020, 11:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew10 View Post
It does make you wonder because it wasn't a binary choice, the final design or nothing. The front end from the CSL Homage(?) would have differentiated the M3/4 from the other models.

It makes you wonder what designs were rejected. Some of the journos say that it makes sense and looks aggressive IRL. I hope that's the case.
Not to be negative, but the journalists are getting their cars from BMW. They are part of the marketing effort. It's no surprise they all say they like it. Some of them might, but it's business after all. BMW has to control the messaging.
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      09-24-2020, 11:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
I was almost trying to start to accept the grills. Then the M-performance parts show up.

What are your thoughts about why BMW M is going in this direction?
To be honest I don’t understand what you are asking? The m performance parts catalog always looked the same and in my opinion haven’t changed. It has a classic collection of parts created by middle school children with Asian countries being their primary target audience. In Canada we call them “ricers”....sooo...nothing changed...
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      09-24-2020, 11:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew10 View Post
It does make you wonder because it wasn't a binary choice, the final design or nothing. The front end from the CSL Homage(?) would have differentiated the M3/4 from the other models.

It makes you wonder what designs were rejected. Some of the journos say that it makes sense and looks aggressive IRL. I hope that's the case.
To the point about the CSL Homage, maybe they are going to work towards that design. I think the homage grille and lights look great, and if they end up tweaking it closer to that with updates that would be awesome.
Another factor maybe their electric cars (i4 concept), they had painted closed off grilles but similar outlines. A step change for these cars was probably needed to work towards electric. If (big if) the next m3/m4 is electric they might just fill in the opening". Of course just thoughts in my head.

Edit: just saw VetteGuy's comment about the i4 sorry about the repeat.
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      09-25-2020, 05:46 AM   #8
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Why is this question even being asked if there is a clear answer to it already. From the BMW designer himself. And there are many interviews like that where he always states it's 4 series exclusively (exclusively for the sport version of the core product - which is the 4 series).

Quote:
“Of course, if you just look at the grille, you might say ‘Okay, it’s getting bigger’, but you have to look at our [iconic] mask and kidney grille – which is very unique – then I think we should be much more self-confident and proud of this.”

Furthermore, Dukec says that the large kidney grille doesn’t apply to all BMWs, like for example the new Z4, 8 Series and G20 3 Series.

“Our goal was to differentiate the models, like the G20 3 Series and G32 4 Series now. In the past, models like the E90 and E92 were very close in design, with small differences, but today, we have two different type of customers. One will say ‘It’s not sport enough, I want expression and extroversion’, so you really have to split [these customers].”

“We want to give every car its own character. This is like the times when there was a 2002 and then there was a 3.0 CSI. Two different characters, and that was the point with the 4 and 8 Series,”
Also, personal opinion, Yas Marina Blue interior is fire. The yellow contrast stitiching works really really good (blue and yellow are complementary colors). Of course with a green exterior it might not work, but try Dravit Grey or White.

And finally, to answer some other question I saw here. the M3 always had the same front as the M4 (or when they were both M3s, the limousine always had the front of the coupe). So it's no surprise the G80 has the same front as the G82.

Last edited by Flamingi; 09-25-2020 at 05:53 AM..
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      09-25-2020, 06:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamingi View Post
Why is this question even being asked if there is a clear answer to it already. From the BMW designer himself. And there are many interviews like that where he always states it's 4 series exclusively (exclusively for the sport version of the core product - which is the 4 series).

Quote:
"Of course, if you just look at the grille, you might say 'Okay, it's getting bigger', but you have to look at our [iconic] mask and kidney grille – which is very unique – then I think we should be much more self-confident and proud of this."

Furthermore, Dukec says that the large kidney grille doesn't apply to all BMWs, like for example the new Z4, 8 Series and G20 3 Series.

"Our goal was to differentiate the models, like the G20 3 Series and G32 4 Series now. In the past, models like the E90 and E92 were very close in design, with small differences, but today, we have two different type of customers. One will say 'It's not sport enough, I want expression and extroversion', so you really have to split [these customers]."

"We want to give every car its own character. This is like the times when there was a 2002 and then there was a 3.0 CSI. Two different characters, and that was the point with the 4 and 8 Series,"
Also, personal opinion, Yas Marina Blue interior is fire. The yellow contrast stitiching works really really good (blue and yellow are complementary colors). Of course with a green exterior it might not work, but try Dravit Grey or White.

And finally, to answer some other question I saw here. the M3 always had the same front as the M4 (or when they were both M3s, the limousine always had the front of the coupe). So it's no surprise the G80 has the same front as the G82.
Off topic, so we wont see G20 LCI with big grilles per designer statement?
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      09-25-2020, 06:10 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nomana View Post
Off topic, so we wont see G20 LCI with big grilles per designer statement?
Exactly. Currently reserved for 4 series, the highest power version (M3/M4) and the i4.

G20 LCI design is probably close to being finalized, at least no radical changes now anymore. If the 4 series sells extremely well, maybe they will expand it to the next gen 3 series - but I doubt it.
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      09-25-2020, 10:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
Not to be negative, but the journalists are getting their cars from BMW. They are part of the marketing effort. It's no surprise they all say they like it. Some of them might, but it's business after all. BMW has to control the messaging.
Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for despite what you described.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StanislavK82 View Post
To the point about the CSL Homage, maybe they are going to work towards that design. I think the homage grille and lights look great, and if they end up tweaking it closer to that with updates that would be awesome.
Another factor maybe their electric cars (i4 concept), they had painted closed off grilles but similar outlines. A step change for these cars was probably needed to work towards electric. If (big if) the next m3/m4 is electric they might just fill in the opening". Of course just thoughts in my head.

Edit: just saw VetteGuy's comment about the i4 sorry about the repeat.
Maybe in the next gen electrification plus a smaller ICE equals a smaller grill . The grill won't get smaller in this gen.
With full electrification, grills are not necessary, so it comes back to wondering why they went with this design choice?

Come to think of it, the X3/4M grill also has massive openings. The engine must have massive cooling needs. Can the cooling needs of two engines (F8x vs G8x) be compared?
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      09-25-2020, 10:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamingi View Post
Why is this question even being asked.....

And finally, to answer some other question I saw here. the M3 always had the same front as the M4 (or when they were both M3s, the limousine always had the front of the coupe). So it's no surprise the G80 has the same front as the G82.
Actually, it is a suprise because bmw said they were separating the 3er and the 4er to be unique models, not merely a 2 door and 4 door model. They executed this strategy with the production lines and the 3er and 4er are different designs..But why OH why didnt they follow this for the M versions? That is the root issue.

They’ve created a frankenstein M3 that has no connection to the 3er and that makes no sense. Yes it made sense when they were all the same model just 2dr/4dr, but now that they created 2 new unique models, who made the rediculous decision for the M3 only to throw the nose of a completely different car on what is perhaps their most important halo model. Whoever made this call should be held to account.

Its unbelievable really, there is no M version of the 3er, just an M4 and frankenstein 4door version of the M4.

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      09-25-2020, 11:15 AM   #13
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The sedans and coupes have become stale and invisible. A fresh more impactful design was sorely needed to not become ignored and forgotten.
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      09-25-2020, 11:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m630 View Post
Actually, it is a suprise because bmw said they were separating the 3er and the 4er to be unique models, not merely a 2 door and 4 door model. They executed this strategy with the production lines and the 3er and 4er are different designs..But why OH why didnt they follow this for the M versions? That is the root issue.

They’ve created a frankenstein M3 that has no connection to the 3er and that makes no sense. Yes it made sense when they were all the same model just 2dr/4dr, but now that they created 2 new unique models, who made the rediculous decision for the M3 only to throw the nose of a completely different car on what is perhaps their most important halo model. Whoever made this call should be held to account.

Its unbelievable really, there is no M version of the 3er, just an M4 and frankenstein 4door version of the M4.

Need to go one rung lower get that old M-esque

The G80/82 M3/M4 are not for the 'oldies' who had the E36, E46...their kids are grown up by now, why would they need such a big car...no they downsize to an M2

If they somehow manage to fuck up the G87 M2 as well then bye bye
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      09-25-2020, 11:28 AM   #15
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I don't fault them for trying something new. But I find it hard to believe as the design settled everyone was standing around high fiving each other saying "we nailed it". The design is just so bizarre to me. The grill I might be able to accept over time, but the M Performance parts honestly looks like it was outsourced to Pepboys. The biggest issue to me is the weight.

So look, that was a pretty negative first impression. But I'm curious to know how it drives. At this point I'm not optimistic, but we'll see.

Edit: one thing I absolutely love, the carbon seats.
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      09-25-2020, 11:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
I was almost trying to start to accept the grills. Then the M-performance parts show up.

What are your thoughts about why BMW M is going in this direction?
Because the BMW boss was quoted on record saying he doesn't care about heritage/classic designs and is determined to move away from them. That resulted in everything you are seeing today, even the performance parts.

Change can be good, change doesn't have to mean unattractive or brash, change doesn't have to mean abandoning designs worked up in the past 40 years.
But alas, this is what happened. They can't seem to design a new attractive car while doing a evolution of design cues.


There seems to be an odd logic in some people that, when a new iteration comes out, the old one immediately looks "dated".
I wonder if this is because they lack the ability to judge the design individually without considering the "new" factor.

If the the F8x and G8x exterior design came out the same day which would they choose?
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      09-25-2020, 12:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Need to go one rung lower get that old M-esque

The G80/82 M3/M4 are not for the 'oldies' who had the E36, E46...their kids are grown up by now, why would they need such a big car...no they downsize to an M2

If they somehow manage to fuck up the G87 M2 as well then bye bye
...I too hope the G87 is the spiritual successor to the E30 - E46 M era, otherwise all hope is lost...

And i agree, bmw is missing a marketplace oppprtunity by not offering a smaller and lighter 2+2 no bigger than E46.
You are right, many of us that owned the E30 and E46 do not need such big cars at this point in life and would like to stay in the bmw family ....but bmw is no longer making a car that fits our needs.
Out of the unbelievable number of models that now exist, not one fills the place of the enthusiast that wants a small nimble sports coupe like the ones that made them famous to begin with.
They could do a 3200lb car if they wanted to, they just choose not to and thats the problem.

Last edited by m630; 09-25-2020 at 12:12 PM..
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      09-25-2020, 12:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poweredbym View Post
There seems to be an odd logic in some people that, when a new iteration comes out, the old one immediately looks "dated".
I wonder if this is because they lack the ability to judge the design individually without considering the "new" factor.

If the the F8x and G8x exterior design came out the same day which would they choose?
Could it be we as humans are just wired in a way that the novelty of new influences our perception(s) of what already is? To answer your question about which I would choose? Same engine and drivetrain? If so F8x because it would be lighter (assuming), same amount of power and look better to me.
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      09-25-2020, 12:08 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by m630 View Post
Actually, it is a suprise because bmw said they were separating the 3er and the 4er to be unique models, not merely a 2 door and 4 door model. They executed this strategy with the production lines and the 3er and 4er are different designs..But why OH why didnt they follow this for the M versions? That is the root issue.

They’ve created a frankenstein M3 that has no connection to the 3er and that makes no sense. Yes it made sense when they were all the same model just 2dr/4dr, but now that they created 2 new unique models, who made the rediculous decision for the M3 only to throw the nose of a completely different car on what is perhaps their most important halo model. Whoever made this call should be held to account.

Its unbelievable really, there is no M version of the 3er, just an M4 and frankenstein 4door version of the M4.

You have to understand the design process. First, they design the M3 and M4 together. It's the most aggressive design and they will share the front. Then, they tone it down for the 4 series, and then they make it conservative for the 3 series.

With that order in mind, it does make sense for the M3 and M4 to share the face. (Also it's a lot cheaper since they only have to develop one high performance "front part". M3/4 are the same up to the A pillar. That front area undoubtedly is the most expensive to develop)
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      09-25-2020, 12:13 PM   #20
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Thats the problem right there. They should not be designing them together, they are two completely different models. And for cost cutting we get two ugly models instead of just one on whats bmws most recognized m car.
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      09-25-2020, 12:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by m630 View Post
Thats the problem right there. They should not be designing them together, they are two completely different models. And for cost cutting we get two ugly models instead of just one on whats bmws most recognized m car.
If they are designing two separate cars that means double the development cost. Looking at the extremely difficult market right now that will not happen. (Actually, the exact opposite is happening - models are cancelled: 1 series 3-door, 2 series cabriolet, 2 series gran tourer, 3 series GT, 4 series gran coupe (replaced by i4), 7 series swb, 8 series coupe + cabriolet, z4). The best compromise for the current oversupplied automotive sector (and I'm not saying that's the best scenario overall - of course two separate models would be better) is for two cars to share as much as possible.

Alternatively it would be either the M3 or the M4 and the other model wouldn't exist. I think that is worse than a shared front end.

Last edited by Flamingi; 09-25-2020 at 12:26 PM..
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      09-25-2020, 01:19 PM   #22
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They had no choice but to be bold and big. Sedans of this type (in the USA) are rare. To survive , it makes sense so they would stay relevant.

The truck size war going on in the USA is insanity. The larger the truck, the bigger your ....manhood must be, and the more popular it is for some American men. I live in Florida....there's no mountains or bad weather/snow. It's not even functional at a certain point. I never even see these people actually hauling "tonnage" either. The truck bed sizes are actually shrinking.

It's uniquely a western phenomenon, especially in America. I think there are some definite insecurities or compensating factors at play. More importantly, something is missing...or lacking...almost like something was taken away or missing from a young age. It's a curious thing that I think has spread like a virus recently that has made sedans and cars irrelevant because they are perceived as only for "sissy men".

Enter the G80/G82. Look at me, don't F with me little man, I'm still here!! This is human nature coming through in cars and trucks!
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