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      09-24-2020, 09:16 AM   #309
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I think that there are still some spots on the car where the could had added the "M performance" stickers... SHM
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      09-24-2020, 09:18 AM   #310
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Hard to believe, but I might hate the M Performance rear diffuser more than the pig nose grilles.
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      09-24-2020, 09:26 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I'll probably hang on to my CS for a year or two and then move to another brand. On paper at least, I just don't see enough of a track performance improvement over my current CS to justify the move to a G8X competition. With the previous generations, it was a no brainer. I might re-consider if they make something interesting for the G8X CS or CSL, they seem to have kept a lot of weight reduction opportunities on the table. However, I am ogling the 992 turbo, and once I get a taste of that, I might also not come back to BMW.
I hear you. I track my car but not to the extent you do. I also am completely and utterly miserable in my CS because of the DCT. It is the first (and hopefully last) non-6MT car I'll ever own (until they outlaw gasoline of course).
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      09-24-2020, 09:28 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
That might be but the change from the F8X is still minor vs F8X from any other generation. The S55 sure wasn’t love at first sight with it’s FI character. We had to learn to like it. The same is valid for the AT now but it’s relative minor vs that engine change.

The G8X mainly take all revolutionary changes done with the F8X and enhance them. I have far less concerns with this car than I had with the F8X and I managed to overcome them that time. It’s some give and take this time as well with the weight and AT but overall it’s an easier pill to swallow this time. At least on paper, let’s see how that translates after some seat time.
Indeed, when the F8X was first released, the power ratings had me raise an eyebrow, since it was a very modest gain relative to the E9X. I was vocal about it on the forum. I however later learned how modern turbo charging has an effect on the rated power numbers and make them misleading. Learned that FI and NA rated power numbers simply cannot be compared. Further, a lot of effort was put on the F8X weight and all other performance elements of the F8X were very appealing. All in all, on paper, the F8X was clearly a better car than the E9X, which is why I had a deposit on one before they were in showrooms and before I test drove one. As you say, with the G8X, there is no technological step forward in terms of performance orientation. However I do see several step backwards, such as the size (wheelbase), weight and 8AT. I was recently lucky enough to have driven an F90 M5 on track back to back with a PDK 992C2 for multiple sessions. The ZF8 is decent enough, but it sure is no DCT or PDK (it feels sluggish and disconnected in comparison). Now, that 992, despite feeling relatively underpowered (too say that 379hp is underpowered ), was pure bliss to drive .

You can see it in the press material for the G8X, there is very little emphasis on what was done performance wise to the car (as massively opposed to the F8X). The G8X press material is mostly about the "looks" while the F8X press material was about what is under the skin. That's quite telling IMO.
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      09-24-2020, 09:30 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Indeed, when the F8X was first released, the power ratings had me raise an eyebrow, since it was a very modest gain relative to the E9X. I however later learned how modern turbo charging has an effect on the rated power numbers and make them misleading. Learned that FI and NA numbers can simply not be compared. Further, a lot of effort was put on the F8X weight. All in all, on paper, the F8X was clearly a better car than the E9X, which is why I had a deposit on one before they were in showrooms and before I test drove one. As you say, with the G8X, there is no technological step forward in terms of performance orientation. However I do see several step backwards, such as the size, weight and 8AT. I was recently lucky enough to have driven an F90 M5 on track back to back with a PDK 992C2 for multiple sessions. The ZF8 is decent enough, but it sure is no DCT or PDK (it feels sluggish and disconnected). Now, that 992, despite feeling relatively underpowered (too say that 379hp is underpowered ), was pure bliss to drive .
I have actually never driven a 911 of any kind...I have driven a GT4, a Cayman S (both on track and off), but never a 911...maybe it's better that way, as ignorance is bliss.
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      09-24-2020, 09:34 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
I hear you. I track my car but not to the extent you do. I also am completely and utterly miserable in my CS because of the DCT. It is the first (and hopefully last) non-6MT car I'll ever own (until they outlaw gasoline of course).
I certainly appreciate the appeal of a manual transmission and it is a great thing that BMW continues to offer it on the M3/4.
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      09-24-2020, 09:40 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
I have actually never driven a 911 of any kind...I have driven a GT4, a Cayman S (both on track and off), but never a 911...maybe it's better that way, as ignorance is bliss.
I've also track driven a 981 GT4, indeed
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      09-24-2020, 10:01 AM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Indeed, when the F8X was first released, the power ratings had me raise an eyebrow, since it was a very modest gain relative to the E9X. I was vocal about it on the forum. I however later learned how modern turbo charging has an effect on the rated power numbers and make them misleading. Learned that FI and NA rated power numbers simply cannot be compared. Further, a lot of effort was put on the F8X weight and all other performance elements of the F8X were very appealing. All in all, on paper, the F8X was clearly a better car than the E9X, which is why I had a deposit on one before they were in showrooms and before I test drove one. As you say, with the G8X, there is no technological step forward in terms of performance orientation. However I do see several step backwards, such as the size (wheelbase), weight and 8AT. I was recently lucky enough to have driven an F90 M5 on track back to back with a PDK 992C2 for multiple sessions. The ZF8 is decent enough, but it sure is no DCT or PDK (it feels sluggish and disconnected in comparison). Now, that 992, despite feeling relatively underpowered (too say that 379hp is underpowered ), was pure bliss to drive .

You can see it in the press material for the G8X, there is very little emphasis on what was done performance wise to the car (as massively opposed to the F8X). The G8X press material is mostly about the "looks" while the F8X press material was about what is
under the skin. That's quite telling IMO.
As some comfort to that I spent a full track day with the F10 M5 and FXX M6s when I still had my E90 M3 and I was appalled by them vs my car...the F80 turned out to be something very different but still was a learning curve to like for sure.
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      09-24-2020, 10:11 AM   #317
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Quote:
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The red stripe around the diffuser reminds me of a Subaru wagon I saw the other day

[IMG]https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content...ester-18-1.jpg[/IMG]
...and strangely also appeared in one of the pre-reveal renders. (remember that awful gray/orange 'GTS' render)

Either the guy doing the renders is prescient, or maybe there is some sort of leaky channel from BMW marketing? ;-)

Either way - it still looks like a Civic Type-R and I would be embarrassed to be seen driving a car that had the kind of reputation this 'pimp my ride' kit is going to generate.
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      09-24-2020, 10:17 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by pbar View Post
...and strangely also appeared in one of the pre-reveal renders. (remember that awful gray/orange 'GTS' render)

Either the guy doing the renders is prescient, or maybe there is some sort of leaky channel from BMW marketing? ;-)

Either way - it still looks like a Civic Type-R and I would be embarrassed to be seen driving a car that had the kind of reputation this 'pimp my ride' kit is going to generate.
Stepping stone for people with higher aspirations.



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      09-24-2020, 10:34 AM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
As some comfort to that I spent a full track day with the F10 M5 and FXX M6s when I still had my E90 M3 and I was appalled by them vs my car...the F80 turned out to be something very different but still was a learning curve to like for sure.
My reference to the the F90 M5 was solely about the 8AT.
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      09-24-2020, 10:39 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
My reference to the the F90 M5 was solely about the 8AT.
Understood. Mine was mainly about the engine character of the M5. I strongly disliked it vs the S65, still I learnt to appreciate the S55 over time.
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      09-24-2020, 10:48 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Understood. Mine was mainly about the engine character of the M5. I strongly disliked it vs the S65, still I learnt to appreciate the S55 over time.
Yes, the S65 has fantastic throttle response and has way more sole in more mundane driving conditions, feels more special more of the time. There's no denying the S55's pulling power on track though, and in Sport+, it is responsive enough to allow positioning the chassis exactly where you want it. For me, I loved the S55 the first time I had in on track. The S63 in the F90 is also awesome, pulls like there is no tomorrow. I have little doubt the S58 will also be a great engine. It's the 8AT I don't like.
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      09-24-2020, 11:07 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Yes, the S65 has fantastic throttle response and has way more sole in more mundane driving conditions, feels more special more of the time. There's no denying the S55's pulling power on track though, and in Sport+, it is responsive enough to allow positioning the chassis exactly where you want it. For me, I loved the S55 the first time I had in on track. The S63 in the F90 is also awesome, pulls like there is no tomorrow. I have little doubt the S58 will also be a great engine. It's the 8AT I don't like.
Yes it’s a similar situation, something perceptually laggier less responsive is replacing something sharper and more tactile/predictable while objective overall performance of the car is significantly improved.
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      09-24-2020, 11:13 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Yes it’s a similar situation, something perceptually laggier less responsive is replacing something sharper and more tactile/predictable while objective overall performance of the car is significantly improved.
Let's wait and see about that. So far on paper, it's not.
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      09-24-2020, 11:27 AM   #324
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Why they made this chamber soooo big, I don't understand, they put something unusual in it?
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      09-24-2020, 11:28 AM   #325
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I wish I could do the M Perf Exhaust with a rear diffuser that didnt wrap around the side of the car and flair up.


I will NOT do those side skirts and I don't think it will look right without it.
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      09-24-2020, 11:30 AM   #326
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Why they made this chamber soooo big, I don't understand, they put something unusual in it?
The tears of those who hate the new grilles.
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      09-24-2020, 11:33 AM   #327
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Let's wait and see about that. So far on paper, it's not.
Yes I’m eagerly awaiting some data points. My guess is that we’ll see track time gaps twice those of E9X to F8X. But let’s see.
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      09-24-2020, 11:48 AM   #328
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Yes I’m eagerly awaiting some data points. My guess is that we’ll see track time gaps twice those of E9X to F8X. But let’s see.
You are very optimistic. IMO, the weight gain is the biggest drawback. I don't recall such a big increase in weight from one generation to the next.

But there might be truth in what you are saying. The G8X can be ordered from the factory with PSC2 tires right from the get go. So I would not be surprised if many press test cars are shod with these. But if that is the case, it does not necessarily make the G8X that much better.

From the BMW.DE configurator:
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      09-24-2020, 11:53 AM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
You are very optimistic. IMO, the weight gain is the biggest drawback. I don't recall such a big increase in weight from one generation to the next.

But there might be truth in what you are saying. The G8X can be ordered from the factory with PSC2 tires right from the get go. So I would not be surprised if many press test cars are shod with these. But if that is the case, it does not necessarily make the G8X that much better.

From the BMW.DE configurator:
Yes it’s not just about power to weight as we know. Grip from wider tires, especially front and potential aero improvements etc. can be just as if not more important to drive average speed improvements.
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      09-24-2020, 11:58 AM   #330
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Yes it’s not just about power to weight as we know. Grip from wider tires, especially front and potential aero improvements etc. can be just as if not more important to drive average speed improvements.
Weight hampers agility and works against grip. Weight also significantly increases consumable costs on track. Tougher on tires, brakes and fuel.

So far, only the front tires are wider from a nominal size perspective (275 vs 265). We'll have to see when TireRacks get their hands on the BMW star spec tires for the G8X and give us the tread width to truly understand the difference with the F8X. I think they had to widen the front contact patch as well as the track on the G8X mainly because it carries a greater proportion of its weight on the front axle:

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=93
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