[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by MannyS

Here in the TX hill country, it is top down weather about 8 months per year. Aug, Sep and Feb are usually no top down months. We have two other convertibles, so we are convertible people.

Yeah, even here in Houston, I miss my 911 Cab. June - Sept were rough; really went down only after the sun did. And Dec - Feb are hit / miss. Spring and fall are amazing and the odd sunny winter day or milder summer day are good too.

So yes, lots of top down weather in Texas!

As for my G80, we just got it so no plans to get rid of it any time soon.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Just from a curiosity perspective - how many people think a G80 is "worth" 90k?

Now, I don't mean that from a comparative perspective as in what other cars you can get for that money (we know its a value from that view) or the fact that absurd kia suv's now cost 55k... but I mean that in general. Do you feel it's worth 90k?

When I drove it, I never got a feeling of a 90k car... its a 3 series all in and it still feels like a 3 series... more special... sure. But I was not sure why this car would cost 90k, nothing there feels special to put that price on it from my perspective. i think at 70k, it becomes a more feasible car when you know you are getting value for what you paid... when the initial cars came out at 78k, that seemed more feasible although still high. Remember, 110k gets you an M5 with one of the last V8s in existance.

The question of 'worth' can only be done comparatively; either to other purchases (car or others), and/or to your expectations. You make the comparison to M5 at $20K more and imply it is worth it, and mention its V8. So, somehow that V8 is worth the additional $20K to you.

When you were test driving the G80, maybe your expectations and wants were different. It is also possible that the M3 actually never promises to fulfill your expectations and you were looking for something different. It is not meant to be a luxury car, I think that's already established, right?

What were you hoping to get with the M3 at $90K? At the end, only you can answer that question for yourself.

My CS costs a lot more than $90K or the M5, and without a doubt, it has met my expectations. I know that if I had purchased an M5 instead, I would have been disappointed in my decision, V8 or not, and not because it is a bad car, but I am not looking for what it is offering.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Just from a curiosity perspective - how many people think a G80 is "worth" 90k?

Now, I don't mean that from a comparative perspective as in what other cars you can get for that money (we know its a value from that view) or the fact that absurd kia suv's now cost 55k... but I mean that in general. Do you feel it's worth 90k?

When I drove it, I never got a feeling of a 90k car... its a 3 series all in and it still feels like a 3 series... more special... sure. But I was not sure why this car would cost 90k, nothing there feels special to put that price on it from my perspective. i think at 70k, it becomes a more feasible car when you know you are getting value for what you paid... when the initial cars came out at 78k, that seemed more feasible although still high. Remember, 110k gets you an M5 with one of the last V8s in existance.

This is a difficult question. There are way too many variables, starting with what a person thinks of when they hear "90k". Are they comparing it to what they paid for a car in 2014 (random year chosen as its long enough that inflation has a significant effect). I know a guy who has had a $30k max car cost rule for 25 years and he's constantly pissed off that had can't buy as much car for that as he could 25 years ago. Not, overall, a dumb guy but he comes off as a confused old man yelling at clouds (note, I'm no spring chicken...he's the same age as I am).

Linking that 90k to the 110k doesn't make sense to me. Even with inflation, 20k is a significant amount of money. "Why would anyone buy a 30k Kangaroo when a 50k Badger exists?". Same thing, though I don't really trust Badgers. But, for someone with more resources than I have, maybe that 20k is a lot less significant.

The overall comparison to the Kia you mentioned is, absolutely, the most important point and I don't think it can be dismissed. Value relative to similar objects, along with how willing people are to pay that amount covers a lot of the "basis of value" ground. Your house isn't worth the Z-Estimate on Zillow, it's worth what someone will pay for it compared to other houses that are on the market.

When you run inflation calculators, that 90k is in line with what M3s used to cost at insert-random-year. So it's as worth it was an E90 M3 was in 2009, and it's as stupid of a purchase as that E90 was, too. Until you get to the next item:

The problem isn't the cost based on inflation. It's stagnant wages. The problem might be more of an issue for a median household income buying that Kia than it is for folk who can legitimately afford an M3 (not talking about folk who end up not paying their credit card bills on time to afford their M3 lease).

Also, the Mustang/Corvette problem has to be answered. Performance numbers alone between the American cars and any generation of M3 have made the value of an M3 questionable until you add in the non-performance aspects of the cars, especially in the Fisher Price era of GM interiors. THAT question of value requires a person to actually list what they care about regarding their vehicle choice.

Based on raw inflation numbers, yep, it's probably worth it. Based on wages (again, not necessarily the wage of any particular person on THIS board), even the Kia certainly isn't worth the asking price.

Making it personal for me:

Was the $76k in March of 2021 dollars worth what I paid for my 6MT M3? Yes. It fit my requirements and I paid for it without financial hardship. Do I wish I had bought ANY of the other Manual Transmission new cars that I could have bought that day? Nope.

Long story short: Everyone needs to answer this one for themselves based on today's circumstances, not what they remember from 25 years ago. Don't buy it if it isn't worth it. That's the only power we have in this brand of economy.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

The question of 'worth' can only be done comparatively; either to other purchases (car or others), and/or to your expectations. You make the comparison to M5 at $20K more and imply it is worth it, and mention its V8. So, somehow that V8 is worth the additional $20K to you.

When you were test driving the G80, maybe your expectations and wants were different. It is also possible that the M3 actually never promises to fulfill your expectations and you were looking for something different. It is not meant to be a luxury car, I think that's already established, right?

What were you hoping to get with the M3 at $90K? At the end, only you can answer that question for yourself.

My CS costs a lot more than $90K or the M5, and without a doubt, it has met my expectations. I know that if I had purchased an M5 instead, I would have been disappointed in my decision, V8 or not, and not because it is a bad car, but I am not looking for what it is offering.

As a point of comparison... an F80 at 65K blew me away in 2014... today by running it thru the CPI calc, thats roughly 83k... the G80 doesn't blow me away at 83k if that makes sense.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by bri1042

This is a difficult question. There are way too many variables, starting with what a person thinks of when they hear "90k". Are they comparing it to what they paid for a car in 2014 (random year chosen as its long enough that inflation has a significant effect). I know a guy who has had a $30k max car cost rule for 25 years and he's constantly pissed off that had can't buy as much car for that as he could 25 years ago. Not, overall, a dumb guy but he comes off as a confused old man yelling at clouds (note, I'm no spring chicken...he's the same age as I am).

Linking that 90k to the 110k doesn't make sense to me. Even with inflation, 20k is a significant amount of money. "Why would anyone buy a 30k Kangaroo when a 50k Badger exists?". Same thing, though I don't really trust Badgers. But, for someone with more resources than I have, maybe that 20k is a lot less significant.

The overall comparison to the Kia you mentioned is, absolutely, the most important point and I don't think it can be dismissed. Value relative to similar objects, along with how willing people are to pay that amount covers a lot of the "basis of value" ground. Your house isn't worth the Z-Estimate on Zillow, it's worth what someone will pay for it compared to other houses that are on the market.

When you run inflation calculators, that 90k is in line with what M3s used to cost at insert-random-year. So it's as worth it was an E90 M3 was in 2009, and it's as stupid of a purchase as that E90 was, too. Until you get to the next item:

The problem isn't the cost based on inflation. It's stagnant wages. The problem might be more of an issue for a median household income buying that Kia than it is for folk who can legitimately afford an M3 (not talking about folk who end up not paying their credit card bills on time to afford their M3 lease).

Also, the Mustang/Corvette problem has to be answered. Performance numbers alone between the American cars and any generation of M3 have made the value of an M3 questionable until you add in the non-performance aspects of the cars, especially in the Fisher Price era of GM interiors. THAT question of value requires a person to actually list what they care about regarding their vehicle choice.

Based on raw inflation numbers, yep, it's probably worth it. Based on wages (again, not necessarily the wage of any particular person on THIS board), even the Kia certainly isn't worth the asking price.

Making it personal for me:

Was the $76k in March of 2021 dollars worth what I paid for my 6MT M3? Yes. It fit my requirements and I paid for it without financial hardship. Do I wish I had bought ANY of the other Manual Transmission new cars that I could have bought that day? Nope.

Long story short: Everyone needs to answer this one for themselves based on today's circumstances, not what they remember from 25 years ago. Don't buy it if it isn't worth it. That's the only power we have in this brand of economy.

The real problem with comparative standpoints is that it opens a very wide gamut of options... which is why I tried to refrain from that. Going back to my example... I saw a 2021 M5 with barely 22k miles the other day for 75K... to me personally, that seems like a no brainer vs a new m3. And that comes back to my point, at 90k, it opens you to a whole host of options NEW and USED... which is why I think the G80 will flood the market this year w lease returns and an upcoming LCI that will really affect pricing (both new and used) (discounts and just resale value).

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Just from a curiosity perspective - how many people think a G80 is "worth" 90k?

Now, I don't mean that from a comparative perspective as in what other cars you can get for that money (we know its a value from that view) or the fact that absurd kia suv's now cost 55k... but I mean that in general. Do you feel it's worth 90k?

When I drove it, I never got a feeling of a 90k car... its a 3 series all in and it still feels like a 3 series... more special... sure. But I was not sure why this car would cost 90k, nothing there feels special to put that price on it from my perspective. i think at 70k, it becomes a more feasible car when you know you are getting value for what you paid... when the initial cars came out at 78k, that seemed more feasible although still high. Remember, 110k gets you an M5 with one of the last V8s in existance.

I think like most cars, the M3 pricing is reaching a point (with options) where it's not worth it (100K plus) in a vacuum but is a great value comparatively. I think the M3 feels worth it and is compelling at ~85-88K.
As someone who owned an F90 M5 Comp and now on my second G80 M3, I can say the M3 is more worth it than the M5. The M5 was simply not worth 120K in any way shape or form to me. The V8 was great, but the rest of it never did much for me. The G80 M3 just feels right in every regard to me.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by ASAP

As a point of comparison... an F80 at 65K blew me away in 2014... today by running it thru the CPI calc, thats roughly 83k... the G80 doesn't blow me away at 83k if that makes sense.

I think you are looking at this too literally.

Firstly, I am sure you are not the same person as in 2014, and you expect different things nowadays. Car purchases in this segment are not based on logic, it is only emotional. If you were considering buying a work truck and contemplating between the worth of an F150 vs. RAM vs. whatever at $90K that would be different, yes!?

Secondly, if the M3 did not blow you away, for whatever reason, obviously it is not 'worth' its price tag to you. You don't need anybody else's opinion to validate yours for this type of purchase decision.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Long story short: Everyone needs to answer this one for themselves based on today's circumstances, not what they remember from 25 years ago. Don't buy it if it isn't worth it. That's the only power we have in this brand of economy.

100% true^^^

"Value" is in the eye of the beholder.

I can think of several items that have no real value to me, no matter how "special" they are to others.

And for cars, they hold extremely high value for me, even though for others they would never really be worth it. But even then, only certain cars are "worth" it using my own dollars, but I can see how they hold value for others.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

I think you are looking at this too literally.

Firstly, I am sure you are not the same person as in 2014, and you expect different things nowadays. Car purchases in this segment are not based on logic, it is only emotional. If you were considering buying a work truck and contemplating between the worth of an F150 vs. RAM vs. whatever at $90K that would be different, yes!?

Secondly, if the M3 did not blow you away, for whatever reason, obviously it is not 'worth' its price tag to you. You don't need anybody else's opinion to validate yours for this type of purchase decision.

I know my opinion very well... i made that opinion when I first drove the car 2 years ago. I am asking other because there seem to be a lot of these lightly used for sale now... and many that don't seem to have been kept for long. In the end... I think resale value dictates all of this... so far the G80 values are good but with 2 year options being available for mid 70s when new cars sell for 90+... it becomes a more difficult question. I expect this spread to go up quite a bit more once the Covid car madness is fully flushed out and the lease returns come back.