[Gandalf The White]

All,

Apologies if this has been covered before.

I am working through my break-in mileage, but looking forward to taking the M3 on track.

Given the weight of the car I am assuming that the factory mounted PS4s tires will not last all that many track days and I was looking for an alternative that I can still drive to work (Houston, so warm but rain) but may offer more grip potentially at a price where I don't mind the wear as much (not winning any HDPE's anyways :P)

Back before I switched to Spec Miata I used to run Hankook Ventus RS3/4s on my 987 Cayman and was pretty happy with those, others were running Nitto NT01's but I always thought they looked like they would be too sketchy for a wet drive to the office after a few track weekends. I did try out Toyo R888's once but never really liked them as much as the RS4's.

I haven't decided if I want a dedicated set of track wheels yet as I think that I may end up getting back in a spec miata or something similar again for track work (would like to avoid having to trailer it though), but until I can go more regularly again I plan to use the M3.

Do people just run Cup2's? or Cup2R's? or stick with the PS4s? or are you guys running something else fun?
Appreciate the advice.

best

[Indo Rider]

I don't really track my cars, but I ran several sets of NT-01s on the street on my previous car. Yes you cannot mess around if it's raining, like just leave all TC on and drive carefully, but I never got into a bad situation. San Antonio, BTW. I'm still on the stock pirellis but intend to put NT-01s on this summer.

[Sliiiiick]

A few weeks back I ran a full weekend with my M3comp at Sebring, FL and put a fresh set of Michelin Cup2’s on. I had an absolute blast on the track… and an easier drive home! They’re honestly the best performing non-RR tire available in our size for superior track use and safe road use. Hope this helps!

[NorCalAthlete]

I'll be the one to rain on the parade and say that the majority of people out there doing track days are gonna be more than fine with the OEM PS4*'s.

With the exception of those doing full amateur race seasons, the bulk of people driving ANY sports car simply do not have the skill or confidence to truly push the car to its current limits - let alone need additional grip. Crashes occur when things get pushed significantly past the limit too quickly. Having a little bit extra isn't going to help with that.

So, IMO...keep the PS4* tires for your streetable track day tires. It doesn't sound like you're making this a full on track car.

Once you get to the point of competing and pushing the stock tires to the absolute limit on a regular basis...ok, then your next upgrade is the Cup 2R, and then probably slicks, I dunno past that. I'm still in the "push OEM to the max" phase myself

[Limegrntaln]

Originally Posted by Gandalf The White

All,

Apologies if this has been covered before.

I am working through my break-in mileage, but looking forward to taking the M3 on track.

Given the weight of the car I am assuming that the factory mounted PS4s tires will not last all that many track days and I was looking for an alternative that I can still drive to work (Houston, so warm but rain) but may offer more grip potentially at a price where I don't mind the wear as much (not winning any HDPE's anyways :P)

Back before I switched to Spec Miata I used to run Hankook Ventus RS3/4s on my 987 Cayman and was pretty happy with those, others were running Nitto NT01's but I always thought they looked like they would be too sketchy for a wet drive to the office after a few track weekends. I did try out Toyo R888's once but never really liked them as much as the RS4's.

I haven't decided if I want a dedicated set of track wheels yet as I think that I may end up getting back in a spec miata or something similar again for track work (would like to avoid having to trailer it though), but until I can go more regularly again I plan to use the M3.

Do people just run Cup2's? or Cup2R's? or stick with the PS4s? or are you guys running something else fun?
Appreciate the advice.

best

I'll piggyback a little on what NorCalAthlete is saying about raining on the parade. The first thing we need to know, is, are we talking about RWD or xDrive (AWD)? There is a fairly significant difference.

Firstly, if you're RWD, tire sizing doesn't matter much, but be aware going much bigger, and going with crazy offsets on the front, or adding big spacers, you run the possibility of the tires rubbing the inside of the front fender liners in reverse.

I have BMW Spec 285/30/20 on the front of my xDrive and they rub the fender liner ever so slightly, but this only happens, at 2/3rds of the way, in reverse, only. And these are BMW accessory wheels and tires pre mounted from the BMW Parts counter.

The rear is a little more forgiving. I've seen people running 315s on the rear, with the correct offset, with aftermarket wheels. But on xDrive minding the 1.0% variance between front and rear tire sizing.

xDrive (AWD):
This configuration is very finicky with tire sizing, front to rear. BMW Specifies no more than 1% overall circumferential variance. OEM sizing 19 front and 20 rear, is 0.4% variance. For example, going 285 front and 315 rear, is likely going to cause a problem with the AWD system. The drivetrain and brakes monitor themselves, and if you throw a dash light for xDrive or the brakes, the car can essentially go into reduced power mode. RWD config, there is no variance to worry about.

Here's where tires make a difference. All tires that come on M cars, are BMW "Star" Marked OEM, designed specifically for the car they're on. I used to think, "Oh, sure, special BMW tires, ok."

BMW and Michelin spent 2 1/2 years developing the PS4S that come on the G8X. There were 8 test loops of 30 different compounds, PER AXLE. with 4 axles on the car, you can see how many tire combinations that equates to.

The OEM Star Michelin tires, consist of 4 separate tread compounds, while the off the shelf non OEM PS4S are only made of 2. Two of the four BMW PS4S compounds come from the Cup2. So, the OEM PS4s tires are half PS4S and half Cup2.

That's just a little bit of information on what makes the tires different.

Check out this amazing video done by Tyre Reviews. This is a total geek out on BMW OEM tires, and you will see the tires that come on the car from the factory, are gold.

I'll post an example of the PS4S shown in "Star" spec. These stars are on your PS4S and all G80s from the factory. (see pic below)

BMW Star spec tires, only come in OEM sizing. For the G8X its 275/35/19 and 285/30/20 And are available in Star in:

PS4s Star
Cup2 Connect Star (240 tread vs 180 with the standard Cup2s)(Also read about how the Michelin Connect software works)
Michelin Cup2 R Star
Pirelli PZ4 Star
Pirelli PZ4 Corsa Star
Yokohama ADVAN V107 Star (these tires only come on the 20/ 21" BMW accessory wheel set 285/30/20 and 295/25/21)
(There are also Continental and Bridgestone Star on the G8X but these come in 18" with the standard Base model wheels.)

This video should honestly be mandatory viewing for anyone who buys one of these cars, and wants to take it anywhere near the track. So, before you run out and get non BMW tires, make sure you know what's available for the car, and how good they are. The Cup2 Connect Star, thats available, has also gone through the exact same process to come up with a specific Star tire for the G8X.

https://youtu.be/COA630Juf_U

[Limegrntaln]

My last post got a little long winded, so, this is a video with PS4S Star vs Sport Cup2 Connect Star. I believe the PS4S is probably the best combination for street and track. The Cup2 is going to take much longer to heat up, and of course that's why it stays cooler on the track. Keep in mind the white car in the videos is RWD.

[EatThatLunchBaby]

Lots of great information there and it’s super helpful for someone like me who is struggling to find trustworthy information.

Sticking with the stock PS4S tires in the stock sizes, how many track days + street miles would you expect out of a set?

I used to run Pilot Super Sports only on the street (old Audi) and they were like $1300 a set. The street performance was fine but I was surprised to only get ~7,500 miles out of them. That prompted me to try the Hankook Ventus V12 and there seemed to be no performance drop off at half the cost (~$700 a set).

I’m not sure if this is what OP is asking, but have you guys run any non OEM tires that were good, long lasting on the street and also didn’t completely sacrifice performance on the track?

[Gandalf The White]

Thank you all for your feedback! Seems like the Cup2* so far is the best option, but will keep looking around.

Also I agree, nobody doing a track day needs track tires, a track day is not a competition and the only one timing is you. But that being said I always felt that when running Michelin PSS or PS2's on that they would overheat and get squirmy at the end of the session compared to the RS4/R888's or the Hoosier's I can only imagine that this will be more pronounced with a heavier and more powerful car.

[Limegrntaln]

Originally Posted by EatThatLunchBaby

Lots of great information there and it’s super helpful for someone like me who is struggling to find trustworthy information.

Sticking with the stock PS4S tires in the stock sizes, how many track days + street miles would you expect out of a set?

I used to run Pilot Super Sports only on the street (old Audi) and they were like $1300 a set. The street performance was fine but I was surprised to only get ~7,500 miles out of them. That prompted me to try the Hankook Ventus V12 and there seemed to be no performance drop off at half the cost (~$700 a set).

I’m not sure if this is what OP is asking, but have you guys run any non OEM tires that were good, long lasting on the street and also didn’t completely sacrifice performance on the track?

I lost the tire lottery when I got my car, so, my car came with Pirellis. They’re said to be ok on the track, but the PS4S are going to be better. My car is xDrive so, I’m not going to venture outside of the OEM window. Without needing to change the wheels, we have PS4S*, Cup2* connect, and Cup2 Rs*, in oem sizing. You’re not going to get a whole lot better than Cup2 Rs, at any rate. Unless you go to a full blown track tire, and even then, the fastest cars lapping the ring, are all on Cup2s* and Cup2Rs*. The Team Schirmer M4 that runs in the 6:53,5 on the ring, runs Cup2Rs*. That car is 37 seconds faster than a stock M4 Comp.

Originally Posted by Gandalf The White

Thank you all for your feedback! Seems like the Cup2* so far is the best option, but will keep looking around.

Also I agree, nobody doing a track day needs track tires, a track day is not a competition and the only one timing is you. But that being said I always felt that when running Michelin PSS or PS2's on that they would overheat and get squirmy at the end of the session compared to the RS4/R888's or the Hoosier's I can only imagine that this will be more pronounced with a heavier and more powerful car.

I think for what you’re saying, the Cup2 240 Connect* would be your best bet. And they don’t come on the cars from the factory, in the US, but, in other countries, they have a “track pack” option from the factory, and that comes with Cup2 Commect*

You’ll see at the end of the second video, that he mentions that for track use, he would still pick the Cup2 Connect* for just that little bit more steering precision, dry grip, and heat management.

Since my car didn’t come with Michelins, m.dreamin can add a little more. He’s on PS4S and has a few track days on them. He can speak to the longevity.

[m.dreamin]

Little late in replying but I can confirm the PS4S* tires are fantastic on the street, but on the track they heat up quickly and do get a little smushy. At the start of a 20 min session they'd feel great but I'd find the tire pressures going toward 38 psi and temps up to 170 or so. Cup 2's would be nice but I just don't track enough to justify it, for me.

[slowfizzz]

My experience on COTA chin track weekend - my first in a car. M3 G80 comp xdrive w/ carbon ceramic - 275 /35 R19 up front and 285 /30 R20 in the rear. PS4S stock tires with a star and 6kish miles (I bought the car used but tire wear was minimal before track day). I had done bike days and was comfortable pushing limits of the car.

THe good - hit 2:39.6 lap time after I finally relaxed and was not trying to hold a marble between my cheeks. This was last session on sunday.

The bad - toasted the tires over 2 days.

I had been told by instructor to aim for MFG recommended pressure after tires warmed up. On the first day I did not follow his advice and only took a few PSI out but saw a 8-10 PSI increase once warmed and when at 38/39 psi the thing got squirlly. On the last session I lowered pressure to 24PSI/26PSI cold to hit instructors recommendation of 32/35 hot. Once hot - the thing felt great. Unfortunatley, on the way to getting there the tire shoulder apparently caved along with weird tread wear from lateral force where inner tread was no longer planar with outer thread. Pics after saturday and sunday below on front drivers side tire. Rear had the same lateral wear meaning tire patch was no longer planar but shoulders appeared ok. Developed nation problems but was not expecting to need new tires after 2 days.

I am going to try yokohama advan apex - no other reason than the michellins did not seem ready for the task, contis seemed like they might have the same fate, apex has decent reviews and being a daily driver, not ready for RC tires. hi ho.

The grin is still on my face so all good.

[Master Apex]

Based on the tire wear , looks like it needs more camber.
I used to crank my old Z4M front camber to -3.5 to get even wear so make the tires last several weekends.

I am checking on this thread as I am planning to order 2023 M3 so was wondering about the 18/19 vs 19/20 wheels size .

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Gandalf The White

All,

Apologies if this has been covered before.

I am working through my break-in mileage, but looking forward to taking the M3 on track.

Given the weight of the car I am assuming that the factory mounted PS4s tires will not last all that many track days and I was looking for an alternative that I can still drive to work (Houston, so warm but rain) but may offer more grip potentially at a price where I don't mind the wear as much (not winning any HDPE's anyways :P)

Back before I switched to Spec Miata I used to run Hankook Ventus RS3/4s on my 987 Cayman and was pretty happy with those, others were running Nitto NT01's but I always thought they looked like they would be too sketchy for a wet drive to the office after a few track weekends. I did try out Toyo R888's once but never really liked them as much as the RS4's.

I haven't decided if I want a dedicated set of track wheels yet as I think that I may end up getting back in a spec miata or something similar again for track work (would like to avoid having to trailer it though), but until I can go more regularly again I plan to use the M3.

Do people just run Cup2's? or Cup2R's? or stick with the PS4s? or are you guys running something else fun?
Appreciate the advice.

best

On factory camber my MPS4S *BMW only lasted 3 track days, and they chunked before the end of the 3rd track day. These are great tires, much better than the retail MPS4S. With the right camber I bet I you get 5 track days out of them!

I've switched to CUP2 Connect *BMW 240tw and dialed in -3.2 front, -2.6 rear camber and so far they are fantastic. I've yet to do an HPDE with these, but a 2 autocrosses and 2 short time attacks so far they have some good life on them. I'll report back after my next track day at Streets Of Willow.

[STALKER]

Cup 2s work fine in the rain if not to worn.
It’s the low temps they don’t really like.

I run Cup 2s in my Porsches and spec’d my incoming M3 on Cup 2s as well.

[Boomer 2019]

I have posted these pics in another forum, but with the discussion of the PS4S* tires here I will provide an example of what these tires can do with proper camber and inflation. This represents 4 track days with 360 miles on track (measured miles), and an additional 3,750 miles of DD. Front camber-3.1 and rear camber-2.0. Tire pressure measured hot on track: Front 38 lbs Rear 36 lbs. There is zero edge rollover with wear spread evenly across the flat surface. These are good for at least 2 more days.

As an update: These went on for a total of 6 track days before replacement. In fact, if my next track day were to be a single day here at Homestead I would have left them on. However my next event was to be 2 days at Sebring which for me is a 400 mile round trip to a place where MP4S's do not exist, and the nearest BMW dealer is 120 miles in the wrong direction. A mans gotta know his limitations.

[TrentMeister]

I daily r888 up front and nt01 out back

[Limegrntaln]

Originally Posted by Boomer 2019

I have posted these pics in another forum, but with the discussion of the PS4S* tires here I will provide an example of what these tires can do with proper camber and inflation. This represents 4 track days with 360 miles on track (measured miles), and an additional 3,750 miles of DD. Front camber-3.1 and rear camber-2.0. Tire pressure measured hot on track: Front 38 lbs Rear 36 lbs. There is zero edge rollover with wear spread evenly across the flat surface. These are good for at least 2 more days.

Whoa... How the hell do you have 4k miles on a set of tires, and still have the nibs on?

[Boomer 2019]

It's just the way I roll.

[BMWRacer523]

Stock PS4s with camber plates and attention to hot pressures will be fine for track. Cup2s will be quicker once you get them warmed up but you don't win trophies in HPDE. However, I am not a stickler about sticking to OEM spec tires over the long run for extensive track use. If there are non oem spec tires in the right sizes that have decent wear at a lower cost I would run those. Tires after all are consumables, especially so at the track. There aren't a lot of alternatives especially for xdrive right now but when there are I would be open to trying them.

[MT6]

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 are excellent track tires will be harsh over bumps on the street, sidewall is minimal and hard.

I have them on one of my cars for 2 years 10K miles running well.

I have also experienced Continental Track Tires they were OE on CTR, very good tire lasted 19K miles.

Never tracked any of my cars

Likely won’t get them on M3 will stick to Sport 4s from Discount Tires

[MAXecutive]

Lots of good info on this thread.

I have the factory 19/20 PS4S* and been confused with this <100 vs >100mph setting. I've been using the factory door recommendation of 32/33 but feel I should probably step that up a little bit. I see the temps are approaching 36psi when hot so I haven't worried about it much.

I will be going to Watkins Glen this weekend and ran that track twice with my MK5 supra. Factory door psi is 38 all around and I lower the psi enough to end at 35psi after each session. Is that same 35psi hot setting what I need for the M3? If so, I assume starting for first session on a 50F day I should lower to about to about 28psi. Do we need to maintain the +1 more psi in the back do the added volume of that tire size?

[Boomer 2019]

You do not need to worry about the <100 >100 thing. The cars come from the factory set at <100. You should leave it there even if you track the car. Unless you have a daily commute on the Autobahn you will be spending nearly all of your time at <100. Any excursions above this even on a racetrack will be brief, and the tires will be fine.

As for the PSI, you should use the recommended settings on the door jamb (measured when cold) for DD. When on the track with PS4S's I start at the recommended settings. The pressures will rise to about 5-7 lbs above this as the tires heat up. This is a good target range and only you can decide what works best for you. In my case I run at 37 lbs front and 35 lbs rear (a little more traction out of the turns). All pressures at the track should be measured when hot immediately after returning to the paddock after every session. Bleed them when necessary to maintain your ideal PSI. In any case do not exceed about 39 lbs with PS4S's or your traction and wear will suffer.

Hope this helps.