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      09-10-2021, 02:05 PM   #1
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"Tesla Model S Plaid just set the official world speed record for a production electric car at Nurburgring, directly from factory".

Lap timer officially confirmed and certified by Nurburgring

7:30.90

A touch slower than M4 Competition run by Sport Auto at 7:30.77 even with double the hp, no gears and instant torque but also much heavier of course.

I predict a Sport Auto time would be around 7:35 since they are always a bit slower than a factory driver
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      09-10-2021, 02:16 PM   #2
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I wonder if the xDrive makes any difference around a circuit.
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      09-12-2021, 02:09 PM   #3
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I car with no soul and not even a Kia level interior. The speed is just a gimmick to me. I would rather have a luxury Merc EQS and have money left over. Tesla is going to be playing catchup soon. Rivian is going to blow away Tesla in the pickup segment. The Germans will bring the luxury Tesla can't bring. The rest of the world manufactures are coming too.
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      09-14-2021, 01:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M0J0 View Post
I car with no soul and not even a Kia level interior. The speed is just a gimmick to me. I would rather have a luxury Merc EQS and have money left over. Tesla is going to be playing catchup soon. Rivian is going to blow away Tesla in the pickup segment. The Germans will bring the luxury Tesla can't bring. The rest of the world manufactures are coming too.
They have been saying this for a long time but Tesla is still doing great. Tesla is more than just speed, the convenience of the softwares in the car is awesome, until the Germans can catch up in this area, just more leather inside the car isn't going to overtake Tesla.

With that said, I am still old school, I enjoy driving ICE cars more, but can't say the same for our next generation, my wife is already a convert (to Tesla) and my young daughter may never even get a chance to drive ICE cars.
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      09-14-2021, 06:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatcat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0J0 View Post
I car with no soul and not even a Kia level interior. The speed is just a gimmick to me. I would rather have a luxury Merc EQS and have money left over. Tesla is going to be playing catchup soon. Rivian is going to blow away Tesla in the pickup segment. The Germans will bring the luxury Tesla can't bring. The rest of the world manufactures are coming too.
They have been saying this for a long time but Tesla is still doing great. Tesla is more than just speed, the convenience of the softwares in the car is awesome, until the Germans can catch up in this area, just more leather inside the car isn't going to overtake Tesla.

With that said, I am still old school, I enjoy driving ICE cars more, but can't say the same for our next generation, my wife is already a convert (to Tesla) and my young daughter may never even get a chance to drive ICE cars.
Tesla is doing well and they have a serious fan boy base. i also have friends that have them. Their biggest complaint is the shoddy interior. It will be a lot more than just leather. We will see in 2-3 years when Tesla has real competition on the market. I think there is room for all as ICE will take the real hit in sales. The M3 and Emira are probably my last ICE cars.
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      09-14-2021, 04:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M0J0 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatcat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0J0 View Post
I car with no soul and not even a Kia level interior. The speed is just a gimmick to me. I would rather have a luxury Merc EQS and have money left over. Tesla is going to be playing catchup soon. Rivian is going to blow away Tesla in the pickup segment. The Germans will bring the luxury Tesla can't bring. The rest of the world manufactures are coming too.
They have been saying this for a long time but Tesla is still doing great. Tesla is more than just speed, the convenience of the softwares in the car is awesome, until the Germans can catch up in this area, just more leather inside the car isn't going to overtake Tesla.

With that said, I am still old school, I enjoy driving ICE cars more, but can't say the same for our next generation, my wife is already a convert (to Tesla) and my young daughter may never even get a chance to drive ICE cars.
Tesla is doing well and they have a serious fan boy base. i also have friends that have them. Their biggest complaint is the shoddy interior. It will be a lot more than just leather. We will see in 2-3 years when Tesla has real competition on the market. I think there is room for all as ICE will take the real hit in sales. The M3 and Emira are probably my last ICE cars.
The problem is, that what people don't understand is that Tesla is not a car company. It's a tech company that also happens to make cars

At the moment they make the quickest, most efficient and cheapest EVs in the market like it or not. You can compare other sedans or suvs and they are all slower, heavier, less efficient and even more expensive

On top of that you have their AutoPilot tech which is 7-8 yrs ahead of anybody else.
There is no way any other automaker will be able to even get enough AI engineers to make anything even close. Only one that could even try would be Apple and they they already cancelled their car project a couple of times already

Quality could definitely be better, but you can understand that at the rate they are growing, quality is probably pretty hard to achieve
This should improve with their new GigaCasting where the whole chasis is made of 3 parts, the front casting, the battery/tray, and the rear casting removing 100's of parts and assembly

Having said that. The 7:30 time doesn't look that impressive. It has 2 times the HP as the M3 and it's about the same lap time :
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      09-14-2021, 06:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
The problem is, that what people don't understand is that Tesla is not a car company. It's a tech company that also happens to make cars

At the moment they make the quickest, most efficient and cheapest EVs in the market like it or not. You can compare other sedans or suvs and they are all slower, heavier, less efficient and even more expensive

Other manufactures could make efficient fast EVs too, but 95% of the market could care less.

On top of that you have their AutoPilot tech which is 7-8 yrs ahead of anybody else.
There is no way any other automaker will be able to even get enough AI engineers to make anything even close. Only one that could even try would be Apple and they they already cancelled their car project a couple of times already

I could careless about autopilot unless it will drive me drunk from a bar.

Quality could definitely be better, but you can understand that at the rate they are growing, quality is probably pretty hard to achieve
This should improve with their new GigaCasting where the whole chasis is made of 3 parts, the front casting, the battery/tray, and the rear casting removing 100's of parts and assembly

I actually read up on gigacasting as I find it interesting as an engineer, but that is not where their quality issues are.

Having said that. The 7:30 time doesn't look that impressive. It has 2 times the HP as the M3 and it's about the same lap time :
The difference is you can do laps all day in a M3. You can do just a few in a Tesla.

As I said, I find the speed of a Tesla to be a gimmick. If I am going to drive a boring soulless care I want it to be a quiet luxury EV or to be really functional like say a Rivian. Other than that I think they should just be cheap with range. Tesla really started it all. I think they will do well, but they are about to get real competitive to match their price points. ICE cars will be our future. It is coming. I am excited about it too, but there are trade offs and engineering challenges ahead.
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      09-14-2021, 06:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M0J0 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
The problem is, that what people don't understand is that Tesla is not a car company. It's a tech company that also happens to make cars

At the moment they make the quickest, most efficient and cheapest EVs in the market like it or not. You can compare other sedans or suvs and they are all slower, heavier, less efficient and even more expensive

Other manufactures could make efficient fast EVs too, but 95% of the market could care less.

On top of that you have their AutoPilot tech which is 7-8 yrs ahead of anybody else.
There is no way any other automaker will be able to even get enough AI engineers to make anything even close. Only one that could even try would be Apple and they they already cancelled their car project a couple of times already

I could careless about autopilot unless it will drive me drunk from a bar.

Quality could definitely be better, but you can understand that at the rate they are growing, quality is probably pretty hard to achieve
This should improve with their new GigaCasting where the whole chasis is made of 3 parts, the front casting, the battery/tray, and the rear casting removing 100's of parts and assembly

I actually read up on gigacasting as I find it interesting as an engineer, but that is not where their quality issues are.

Having said that. The 7:30 time doesn't look that impressive. It has 2 times the HP as the M3 and it's about the same lap time :
The difference is you can do laps all day in a M3. You can do just a few in a Tesla.

As I said, I find the speed of a Tesla to be a gimmick. If I am going to drive a boring soulless care I want it to be a quiet luxury EV or to be really functional like say a Rivian. Other than that I think they should just be cheap with range. Tesla really started it all. I think they will do well, but they are about to get real competitive to match their price points. ICE cars will be our future. It is coming. I am excited about it too, but there are trade offs and engineering challenges ahead.
Yeah if you want a all-around car that you can track, don't think there is anything better than the M3 at least for now

If you never going to track and you don't care much about quality but want the quickness and tech then the M3P or if you can pull the Model S are no brainers.
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      09-15-2021, 01:42 AM   #9
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In my opinion, the biggest Tesla advantage over other EV's is the supercharger network. If you live in the right places, which seems to be lots and lots of places, you can drive the Tesla without range anxiety. Worst case you have to stop at a supercharger but you don't worry about getting stranded.

The charging network for other EV's seems to be evolving. Once that's in place we can start talking about the nicer interior of other EV's. Until then, if I want an all around EV car it almost has to be a Tesla.

With that out of the way, how does an M3/M4 beat a Plaid around the ring? From 0-60 the Plaid makes the M4 look like it's standing still. I guess the chassis and handling of an M4 is on a completely different level compared to a Tesla. To me, that aspect of a car is what makes it enjoyable to drive.
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      09-16-2021, 10:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M0J0 View Post
I car with no soul and not even a Kia level interior. The speed is just a gimmick to me. I would rather have a luxury Merc EQS and have money left over. Tesla is going to be playing catchup soon. Rivian is going to blow away Tesla in the pickup segment. The Germans will bring the luxury Tesla can't bring. The rest of the world manufactures are coming too.
Yup, that's going to happen right around the time NBC is going to blow Netflix out of the water.
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      09-19-2021, 12:39 AM   #11
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Yup, that's going to happen right around the time NBC is going to blow Netflix out of the water.
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      09-19-2021, 12:33 PM   #12
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Tesla is going to be the biggest automotive manufacturer in 20 years. I will never buy one
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      09-19-2021, 05:50 PM   #13
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Fuck Tesla and electric Jesus.
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      09-21-2021, 05:37 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
Having said that. The 7:30 time doesn't look that impressive. It has 2 times the HP as the M3 and it's about the same lap time :
My understanding is the Plaid was running regular Michelin PS4S. Whilst they are good, they aren't as good as BMW star marked PS4S or Cup2's. Apparently the BMW star marked got hot half way through the M4 lap and gave up time against the Cup2's. Imagine a heavier more powerful car on less capable rubber?

If Tesla end up doing a track package I'm sure they would knock a fair chunk of time off.

Sadly when it comes to outright performance, ICE is dead, long live the King.
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      09-21-2021, 07:13 PM   #15
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- Is the info out on how much % one lap drained the battery ?

- Tire wear ?

- Brake wear ?


I'm sorry but untill the day battery tech reduces the weight to something similar to ice cars, these EVs will always be poor track day cars.

I saw a thread on the Porsche forums of someone who did all the maths about doing track days with is Tesla and potentially a Taycan and the final answer was pretty clear. In the perfect condition with close by and available super chargers you can only do half of your day session and you waste a lot of time waiting or driving and coming back to the chargers.
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      09-21-2021, 11:59 PM   #16
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- Is the info out on how much % one lap drained the battery ?

- Tire wear ?

- Brake wear ?


I'm sorry but untill the day battery tech reduces the weight to something similar to ice cars, these EVs will always be poor track day cars.

I saw a thread on the Porsche forums of someone who did all the maths about doing track days with is Tesla and potentially a Taycan and the final answer was pretty clear. In the perfect condition with close by and available super chargers you can only do half of your day session and you waste a lot of time waiting or driving and coming back to the chargers.
I've heard of a track in the north west might install Tesla Supercharges on site.... that might be a game changer but not sure when this will happen though...

Last edited by pikcachu; 09-22-2021 at 12:19 AM..
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      09-22-2021, 07:25 AM   #17
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A Tesla is definitely not a track car. Tyre and break wear with that weight is considerably more than on an G80/82.

Neither is my Taycan a track car at least as long as they fix the charging architecture on my track. Its loads of fun on curvy roads but taking it to the track feels kind of unnecessary. I rather enjoy my fast drives on the curvy roads, you are not full throttle all the time and braking is not that abrupt.

Plaids time on the Ring is astonishingly slow, I thought it would make much better with that insane straight line speed.
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      09-22-2021, 06:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
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A Tesla is definitely not a track car. Tyre and break wear with that weight is considerably more than on an G80/82.

Neither is my Taycan a track car at least as long as they fix the charging architecture on my track. Its loads of fun on curvy roads but taking it to the track feels kind of unnecessary. I rather enjoy my fast drives on the curvy roads, you are not full throttle all the time and braking is not that abrupt.

Plaids time on the Ring is astonishingly slow, I thought it would make much better with that insane straight line speed.
Model 3 performance is similar in weight to a G80 AWD. :

…..and not exactly light in the performance department, here is one that shadows a GT3RS briefly.


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      09-22-2021, 09:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
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Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
A Tesla is definitely not a track car. Tyre and break wear with that weight is considerably more than on an G80/82.

Neither is my Taycan a track car at least as long as they fix the charging architecture on my track. Its loads of fun on curvy roads but taking it to the track feels kind of unnecessary. I rather enjoy my fast drives on the curvy roads, you are not full throttle all the time and braking is not that abrupt.

Plaids time on the Ring is astonishingly slow, I thought it would make much better with that insane straight line speed.
Model 3 performance is similar in weight to a G80 AWD. :

…..and not exactly light in the performance department, here is one that shadows a GT3RS briefly.


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      09-23-2021, 04:58 AM   #20
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Model 3 performance is similar in weight to a G80 AWD. :
…..and not exactly light in the performance department, here is one that shadows a GT3RS briefly.
This thread was about the Plaid should have specified that. The Model3 is neither a track car, it looks totally done and dusted after that round. Made me almost feel sad . The car looks like its not planted at all. Big difference to a Taycan. The understeering tendency didn't like either, looks horrible to drive it.
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      09-25-2021, 08:46 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Model 3 performance is similar in weight to a G80 AWD. :
…..and not exactly light in the performance department, here is one that shadows a GT3RS briefly.
This thread was about the Plaid should have specified that. The Model3 is neither a track car, it looks totally done and dusted after that round. Made me almost feel sad . The car looks like its not planted at all. Big difference to a Taycan. The understeering tendency didn't like either, looks horrible to drive it.
Agreed about model3. It's an ultra eco, soft family sedan. Nearest BMW rival would be a 340i …..if they made a non M performance one. But still, you can see the performance of the EV drivetrain. Imagine if Tesla teamed up with a chassis tuning firm to rival M, AMG, etc. That would equally apply to S Plaid too.
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      10-09-2021, 12:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Agreed about model3. It's an ultra eco, soft family sedan. Nearest BMW rival would be a 340i …..if they made a non M performance one. But still, you can see the performance of the EV drivetrain. Imagine if Tesla teamed up with a chassis tuning firm to rival M, AMG, etc. That would equally apply to S Plaid too.
Imagine if tesla licensed out their charging, battery, and self driving tech to the real car makers.
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