[Jproos]

Originally Posted by stefan

hilarious. it's pay to play. people trying to find ways around warranty are unethical.

I agree. Change the code running your engine and you're on your own if anything goes wrong that's even remotely related. If I was the manufacturer, I'd have 0 qualms about refusing a warranty claim on a car that had been altered in a relevant way.

[chenry]

This has happened in the past with Mission Performance they start in private beta testing (as is presently advertised on their website) – show proof of concept and then move to limited beta testing and then a full blown product offering. And yes they have been first to market with most DMEs cracks over the last several years. I think the true intent of the video was was to share a glimpse of what is possible and what is to come on the new MP platform. I'm sure security will be a non-issue by the time he is ready to launch (whether that means the issue is solved or it becomes a non-issue). I'm guessing the unlock is not ready for prime-time just yet which is why it is in "private beta testing"

Alex is good, very good, at what he does – and has never been one to bullshit anyone. Keep in mind (and I’ve mentioned this several times before) Toyota Global TRD hired him to develop the software for their very own Supra Heritage launch (google it you are interested you’ll find the press release) – this was a car that had to have oem like drivability and reliability in that it would be on the world stage. Toyota could have gone in house for the work – or they could have picked any tuner or software engineer in the world – in the end they hired Alex and put him under contract for a month to work on the car in Texas…again he is that good. There have been other oem projects underway at this his shop when I have had the chance to visit that he would not comment on. My point in sharing this is he is and has been for years the real deal – not just a “tuner” but a software engineer and platform developer that fortunately for all of us has a passion for BMWs (and the occasional Telsa he plays around with).

He’s already making strides in the BMW electric space and those offerings will be on the new platform as well (if I understood him correctly). So while he’s been focused on cracking the 21 DMEs the guy drops a range extender for the hybrid cars

It seems that with their new next gen tuning platform/app (replacing the current platform) coming to market – this was a glimpse of what is to come and at the same time letting the community know that the 21 DMEs are in fact crackable. As far as MPs ability to stop theft of their work once publicly released….I get it but I’m sure in the end they will not let that stop them.

Just my 2-cents based on my experience with MP over the last several years and the conversations I have been able to have with Alex at his shop when I have visited with one of my cars or tagging along with my Son

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by AP

Surprised the software doesn't calculate like a checksum to work out if it has been modified or not.

It's really not surprising at all. Trying to calculate checksums is a PITA and unreliable. OTH, logging acceleration relative to stock values is pretty easy and very reliable. I am sure they are also logging boost pressures, fuel flow, etc and they will all confirm what is going on.

Regarding making an ECU secure, it would honestly be much easier to require two factor authentication for any ECU modification. There must be some legal reason why they don't do this, but not sure what it is. They could also use some sort of secrets management tool for the machine to machine connection between the factory scan tool and the ECU which would be completely 100% secure and no tuner would be able to get in no matter how hard they tried. This is how most of the financial transactions globally are secured now. I would imagine that is what we will ultimately see in the long term.

In short there are plenty of ways they could make the ECU completely secure, but for whatever reason Bosch/BMW have not implemented any of these technologies yet.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by msdss

a vlogger said mission cracked it. oh it must be true then
mission says they cracked it but won't release it. oh ok.

0 videos of a g8x, new m2c/s, m3/4, or supra cracked.

it's all bullshit until I can actually buy something.
sell me the unlock/tune or STFU. it's all just an attention grab until then.

Preach 🙌🏻

So, backyard tuner Mission was able to circumvented the new MG1 ECU encryption, engineered by a multi-billion dollar hardware conglomerate, even after there was a heavy push from auto manufacturers for harder security. Yet, they conveniently refuse to demonstrate this to the public, you know, because they don't want anyone else to steal their supposed endeavor or clout?... Right..

Reminds me of that time I won the Powerball but never claimed the winnings because I didn't want anyone else to know how rich I now was..

Call me skeptical but I live by the motto that seeing is believing simple because anyone can claim any bs on the internet, for whatever hidden agenda they might be after but one simply cannot deny their what they see with their own eyes..

BTW, I was able to figure out a way to collect my lotto winning and maintain my secrecy, so maybe Mission can also hash-up a method of sharing a brief synopsis on how they was able to make an end-run around Bosch's "uncrackable" firewall and yet maybe still retain their imaginary hacking patent - since they're so smart and all..

.

[Baylorguy]

We all know whether this is legit or not, it will be cracked. BMW knows this... everyone knows this. As someone else mentioned, nothing is new under the sun.

[Parnishka]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

100% chance that if you needed engine or transmission repair/replacement they are flagging your car and denying the warranty

it's because SA said we will do it internally and not gonna send any info to bmwusa. I paid for my software update for last version and everything was fine. he said also if ill claim that you have some issue with anything on the car we will be needed to contact bmw for any warranty repair and they will ask to plug in to scan the car and then they will see if any mods/tunes done on a car. so that's why he reprogrammed/updated a car and no problem what's so ever. my point was that to have a right SA is still make sense. but I think it's gonna be ended soon and bmw will illuminate any possible repair on a car without plug in to the car.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

It's really not surprising at all. Trying to calculate checksums is a PITA and unreliable. OTH, logging acceleration relative to stock values is pretty easy and very reliable. I am sure they are also logging boost pressures, fuel flow, etc and they will all confirm what is going on.

Regarding making an ECU secure, it would honestly be much easier to require two factor authentication for any ECU modification. There must be some legal reason why they don't do this, but not sure what it is. They could also use some sort of secrets management tool for the machine to machine connection between the factory scan tool and the ECU which would be completely 100% secure and no tuner would be able to get in no matter how hard they tried. This is how most of the financial transactions globally are secured now. I would imagine that is what we will ultimately see in the long term.

In short there are plenty of ways they could make the ECU completely secure, but for whatever reason Bosch/BMW have not implemented any of these technologies yet.

The more manufacturers unreasonably try to restrict your access to the product you purchased, the more I think we will see interventions and court battles. Once the warranty period is over, the manufacturer should not be entitled to continue frustrating your access just to pad their own revenues and IPs.

interesting older discussion on this here. And it's only worsened since.

https://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/...s-car-repairs/

[The_E92_Fan]

Originally Posted by stefan

The more manufacturers unreasonably try to restrict your access to the product you purchased, the more I think we will see interventions and court battles. Once the warranty period is over, the manufacturer should not be entitled to continue frustrating your access just to pad their own revenues and IPs.

interesting older discussion on this here. And it's only worsened since.

https://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/...s-car-repairs/

Eventually BMW won't care about tuning when dealing with some issues in the future. Look how the E9X turned out. My FRM shit the bed 2 days before the TSB cut off. My 335is is ridiculously far from stock and the dealership didn't care. FRM, injectors, HPFP, zero fucks by them, but then again it was TSB stuff. We just have to wait and see if BMW stops caring after warranty periods are up.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by stefan

The more manufacturers unreasonably try to restrict your access to the product you purchased, the more I think we will see interventions and court battles. Once the warranty period is over, the manufacturer should not be entitled to continue frustrating your access just to pad their own revenues and IPs.

interesting older discussion on this here. And it's only worsened since.

https://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/...s-car-repairs/

The fundamental issue here I see is that when it comes to tuning specifically, even after warranty is over, you as the end user are tampering with a federally approved emissions system. Beyond just self preservation from manufacturers, gov’ts are unlikely to continue to turn a blind eye given emissions restrictions will continue to get much more stringent. Just the way of the world, I say we just enjoy what we have while we have it.

I do agree with you tho that after warranty there should be no control by manufacturers, as fundamentally they no longer owe you a warranty liability.

[kyleb350]

A Bimmerpost featured thread about a Vlogger talking about another Bimmerpost thread...

[stefan]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

The fundamental issue here I see is that when it comes to tuning specifically, even after warranty is over, you as the end user are tampering with a federally approved emissions system. Beyond just self preservation from manufacturers, gov’ts are unlikely to continue to turn a blind eye given emissions restrictions will continue to get much more stringent. Just the way of the world, I say we just enjoy what we have while we have it.

I do agree with you tho that after warranty there should be no control by manufacturers, as fundamentally they no longer owe you a warranty liability.

You know, I didn't think about emissions. Though you would think the end user accepts liability for this as soon as it is modified i.e., won't pass inspection.

[luchocamp]

I got the ball that you were waiting for
... there is the court ..... when someone else brings another ball I take mine so they can see that I had it first.

[NKGK20]

Originally Posted by luchocamp

I got the ball that you were waiting for
... there is the court ..... when someone else brings another ball I take mine so they can see that I had it first.

Lol

[bmwmastertech]

Originally Posted by Parnishka

it's because SA said we will do it internally and not gonna send any info to bmwusa. I paid for my software update for last version and everything was fine. he said also if ill claim that you have some issue with anything on the car we will be needed to contact bmw for any warranty repair and they will ask to plug in to scan the car and then they will see if any mods/tunes done on a car. so that's why he reprogrammed/updated a car and no problem what's so ever. my point was that to have a right SA is still make sense. but I think it's gonna be ended soon and bmw will illuminate any possible repair on a car without plug in to the car.

I’m going to tell you a secret 🤫 the data is sent automatically as soon as your vehicle is hooked up to our equipment. When your vehicle is being reprogrammed it logs all current software versions along with all new versions that are going to be changed. I’ll also give you a free bonus secret most SAs lie constantly so don’t take whatever they say as gospel.

[Slo_F80_Mike]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

I don't believe there is language yet about this in the lease contract. Big issue is when you turn in the vehicle, as the dealer will surely decline to purchase if the two departments (service and used cars) actually talk with each other that said vehicle has been flagged, then it will be punted to BMWFS to offload at auction for a lose.

Personally, I had a S55 SCH due to a tune, I paid up to fix out of warranty, but the dealership I turned the vehicle in at lease end had no clue of the SCH repair work as it was from an out there of state dealer and no warranty work was logged for the chassis with BMW NA— buyer beware. Another issue is having a Indy fix the S58 unknown to BMW NA and their will no trace of either engine/transmission failure due to a tune.

To the SA's, I'm sure that vehicles are being scanned vis ISTA upon lease turn in.

Not to thread jack, but I'm curious as to what you were running on the s55 like what tune, mods, fuel, mileage, transmission etc. since I'm also running a stage 1 tuned s55.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by Slo_F80_Mike

Not to thread jack, but I'm curious as to what you were running on the s55 like what tune, mods, fuel, mileage, transmission etc. since I'm also running a stage 1 tuned s55.

Best read to sum it up, right from the horses mouth—me😂: European Delivery Tune- A-Workx GmbH https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1419169

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

People still seem to have trouble understanding this, and it isn't such new news either

If you tune/piggyback, you are screwed if you blow the engine. That is the end of the story. It doesn't matter if you're sleeping with your SA, your engine won't be covered.

I look forward to BMW adding language to the lease that if you void the warranty you have to buy the car out. It is a clear breach of contract. Too many clowns running around with full attack E85 tunes and leased cars.

Originally Posted by paulo_f80m3

This. Well said.

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

I wish I could appreciate this twice

I just want to clarify the warranty aspect of a tune causing engine failure such as my S55 SCH. I paid out of pocket to have the S55 fixed back to factory condition and the local BMW field rep informed me that I was back under factory warranty as long as I didn't mod again. I paid to play, then laid low in no tune land for the remainder of the lease. Therefore a tune theoretically wouldn't void the factory warranty if car goes back to stock prior to lease end.

[SYT_Shadow]

People:
But my sunroof still was fixed under warranty despite running an E85 burble tune

Me:
Wondering what drugs they're on. They will not warranty your DRIVETRAIN if you are tuned, which has no bearing on unrelated items. Imagine that, if you are running aftermarket turbos with 8 foot flames shooting out of your exhaust, they will still replace your wheel bearings if they fail under the warrant period without complaint.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Seriously, my only question is WHY anyone would think the G80/82 needs more power?

It already gets you from zero to jail time quicker than you can go from throttle to brake application.

I am not being flippant when I state I would be more interested in a tune that attenuated power than one that added power.

///AVM

This is the question I always ask. Car is not just engine. All components must be rated to the same power. You can tune the engine while gearbox, differential, chasis, suspension, brakes and other components are not rated to higher power and then you will have lots of unusable power which can destroy your car.
And that power can only be deployed in straight line of course without traction. 😀

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by bmwmastertech

I’m going to tell you a secret 🤫 the data is sent automatically as soon as your vehicle is hooked up to our equipment. When your vehicle is being reprogrammed it logs all current software versions along with all new versions that are going to be changed. I’ll also give you a free bonus secret most SAs lie constantly so don’t take whatever they say as gospel.

My SA sure does.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by stefan

You know, I didn't think about emissions. Though you would think the end user accepts liability for this as soon as it is modified i.e., won't pass inspection.

Agreed it really should be the end user / customer who is liable for tampering, but pragmatically I foresee Uncle Sam targeting tuning businesses and manufacturers to cut the head off the snake. Don’t read into that as my opinion on the existence or implementation of tuning, more that it’s just what I think will happen realistically since it’s really hard to enforce penalties on an individual / consumer level.

[robbo mcs]

Originally Posted by stefan

You know, I didn't think about emissions. Though you would think the end user accepts liability for this as soon as it is modified i.e., won't pass inspection.

It is not just emissions either. There is all the safety stuff, people messing around with stability control settings, ABS, disabling seat belt alarms, disabling driver safety assists etc. Also doing things that cause risk of fire (or electrical injury in EV's) etc, etc.

Interestingly, your OP said we are going to see more court interventions etc, forcing them to allow access. Actually it is the reverse. The manufacturers are very scared about possible legal consequences of people messing with emissions and safety features. They may have to prove they have taken all possible preventative action to prevent people messing with these things