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      01-11-2021, 12:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
I'm glad we're (hopefully) starting to get some technical material from AG.

From the video:

F82 Comp DCT on 20", likely fully loaded; 1,640 kg
G82 RWD 6MT, 19/20", CF seats, full leather; 1,674 kg
Full tank, which means ca. 59 litres for both vehicles.

According to the data from the press release, a base German-spec 6MT G82 M4 weighs 1,700 kg (DIN, i.e. all fluids, 90% tank). Such car has basic LEDs, HiFi audio, memory seats, 18/19" rims, acoustic glass

Base 2018+ 6MT F82 is 1,570 kg; DCT-equipped is 1,595 kg (DIN). Such car had adaptive LEDs, HiFi audio, electric cloth seats, 18" rims, no DDC, no CF driveshaft.

My maths sucks, but if we compare apples to apples and calculate a DIN weight with empty fuel tank, then their F82 in the video would be approx. 1,596 kg and the G82 1,630 kg.

Base F82 6MT 1,530 kg; F82 DCT 1,555 kg
Base G82 6MT 1,660 kg; G82 Comp 1,685 kg, again all DIN w/o fuel.

Add ca. 10 kg for the standard seats and you're at 1,64x kg. None of the G82 numbers add up. How is this optioned-out car lighter than a supposedly stripper model used for certification... Can't trust them manufacturers with these figures.

Also, I'd like to find out the weight difference between the Getrag M-DCT and ZF 8HP. And no Al fenders on the new car?

All in all, though, a lightweight 6MT G82 is still heavier than a loaded DCT F82.
DIN weight is with 90% fuel, no driver and no luggage...

US curb weights are a bit more complex.

In depth look on curb weights in this thread back from when the F8x was being introduced:


US Curb and EU Kerb weights, an attempt at clarifying the differences. https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=919364


From commission regulation (EU) 1230/2012 on masses and dimensions:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...02&from=EN

Quote:
(2) 'standard equipment' means the basic configuration of a vehicle
which is equipped with all the features that are required under the
regulatory acts referred to in Annex IV and Annex XI to Directive
2007/46/EC, including all features that are fitted without giving
rise to any further specifications on configuration or equipment
level;

(3) 'optional equipment' means all the features not included in the
standard equipment which are fitted to a vehicle under the responsibility of the manufacturer that can be ordered by the customer;

(4) 'mass in running order' means
(a) in the case of a motor vehicle:
the mass of the vehicle, with its fuel tank(s) filled to at least
90 % of its or their capacity/ies, including the mass of the
driver, of the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard
equipment in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork,
the cabin, the coupling and the spare wheel(s) as well as the
tools;
This means that the EU curb weight is with all std equipment, but not any optional equipment.

So a base M3/4 curb weight in EU is heavier than if you spec optional CF bucket seats and CCB. So in the case of the M3/4, adding options can actually decrease the stated (EU) curb weight. Which is what we probably saw in the video.
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      01-11-2021, 12:59 PM   #24
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At least, they try to answer....
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      01-11-2021, 01:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
I'm glad we're (hopefully) starting to get some technical material from AG.

From the video:

F82 Comp DCT on 20", likely fully loaded; 1,640 kg
G82 RWD 6MT, 19/20", CF seats, full leather; 1,674 kg
Full tank, which means ca. 59 litres for both vehicles.

According to the data from the press release, a base German-spec 6MT G82 M4 weighs 1,700 kg (DIN, i.e. all fluids, 90% tank). Such car has basic LEDs, HiFi audio, memory seats, 18/19" rims, acoustic glass

Base 2018+ 6MT F82 is 1,570 kg; DCT-equipped is 1,595 kg (DIN). Such car had adaptive LEDs, HiFi audio, electric cloth seats, 18" rims, no DDC, no CF driveshaft.

My maths sucks, but if we compare apples to apples and calculate a DIN weight with empty fuel tank, then their F82 in the video would be approx. 1,596 kg and the G82 1,630 kg.

Base F82 6MT 1,530 kg; F82 DCT 1,555 kg
Base G82 6MT 1,660 kg; G82 Comp 1,685 kg, again all DIN w/o fuel.


Add ca. 10 kg for the standard seats and you're at 1,64x kg. None of the G82 numbers add up. How is this optioned-out car lighter than a supposedly stripper model used for certification... Can't trust them manufacturers with these figures.

Also, I'd like to find out the weight difference between the Getrag M-DCT and ZF 8HP. And no Al fenders on the new car?

All in all, though, a lightweight 6MT G82 is still heavier than a loaded DCT F82.
BMW used the term "Leergewicht DIN" on the F8x when the 1495kg curb weight was stated. I believe it was confirmed that this weight was with the DIN definition with no driver and no fuel. Hence the very low curb weights on the F8x, which no one really saw in real life (hence the 1640kg F82 M4 Comp DCT in the video).

I think that in order to be apple to apple you need to subtract both fuel and driver (75kg) when comparing to the F8x

Also, according to the definition on mass in running order for Europe optional equipment is not included.

This means that in your calculation you need to subtract 10kg from the 1660kg since tha car has the optional CF buckets (not add 10kg for the std seats) and also subtract weight loss for CCB (if the G82 was equipped with that option, which it probably was since he stated it was a "light build"). And then the weights start to add up for the G82...

BMW probably was a bit short sighted when they claimed the "sub 1500kg" curb weight of the F82 and using a dry weight with no driver. The F8x was actually heavier in real life and, as it seems now, not that much lighter than the G8x. But BMW managed to create a hype around the F8x being more lightweight than it in reality was it seems... Which now comes back to haunt them whith the G8x and use of conventional definitions on curb weights (wet weight w/driver).

So now, BMW spins it the other way with showing that the F82 really wasn't thaaat lightweight...

-

Last edited by Boss330; 01-11-2021 at 01:23 PM..
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      01-11-2021, 01:23 PM   #26
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When they say lightest configuration did that include CC brakes? I could not tell? On the G82?

Last edited by seis-speed; 01-11-2021 at 07:16 PM..
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      01-11-2021, 01:27 PM   #27
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“ But.... when they say lightest configuration did that include CC brakes? I could not tell? On the G82?”

Ah...good question. It’s always something tricky in there isn’t it...

But I suspect the CCBs require the 19/20 wheels or larger. I.e weight chasers can likely get to similar weight with steels and 18/19 setup.

Last edited by solstice; 01-11-2021 at 05:16 PM..
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      01-11-2021, 01:42 PM   #28
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This is a good first step in explaining some of the technicalities, as long as the G80 doesn't weigh more than my RWD M340i I am pleased. I will never get a fully optioned car anyhow so that should also keep weight in check.
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      01-11-2021, 02:03 PM   #29
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Hiring Bill Murray for this video really shows the marketing commitment for the G80/82
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      01-11-2021, 02:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
BMW used the term "Leergewicht DIN" on the F8x when the 1495kg curb weight was stated. I believe it was confirmed that this weight was with the DIN definition with no driver and no fuel. Hence the very low curb weights on the F8x, which no one really saw in real life (hence the 1640kg F82 M4 Comp DCT in the video).

I think that in order to be apple to apple you need to subtract both fuel and driver (75kg) when comparing to the F8x

Also, according to the definition on mass in running order for Europe optional equipment is not included.

This means that in your calculation you need to subtract 10kg from the 1660kg since tha car has the optional CF buckets (not add 10kg for the std seats) and also subtract weight loss for CCB (if the G82 was equipped with that option, which it probably was since he stated it was a "light build"). And then the weights start to add up for the G82...

BMW probably was a bit short sighted when they claimed the "sub 1500kg" curb weight of the F82 and using a dry weight with no driver. The F8x was actually heavier in real life and, as it seems now, not that much lighter than the G8x. But BMW managed to create a hype around the F8x being more lightweight than it in reality was it seems... Which now comes back to haunt them whith the G8x and use of conventional definitions on curb weights (wet weight w/driver).

So now, BMW spins it the other way with showing that the F82 really wasn't thaaat lightweight...

-
Weight figures of the base models were pulled from the available press materials on press.bmwgroup.com which all use the same method, i.e. DIN and EU/"Leergewicht EG". F82 09/2018 (post WLTP), G82 09/2020

DIN weight, as I eluded in my previous post, features a car in running order with 90% fuel and no optional equipment; EU/EG-Leergewicht weight adds 75 kg to that number. That means there is no need to add 10 kg (standard seats) to the 1,660-kg "base" M4. If 1,630 kg is what an M4 weighs with buckets, then you just add ca. 10 kg to that figure and you've got a car with standard seats. I did not see CCBs in the video, it is possible it had them; no argument here.

BMW Deutschland use EG-Leergewicht in their brochures. Standard equipment varied a lot on the F8x M3/4 which is why I highlighted some of the standard German features. Some markets got manual seats, base iDrive without sat nav, etc.

However, it is safe to say that BMW high-key pulled a Ferrari on us with the original weight figures of the F8x. Somehow the DCT lost weight over the years, too.

03/2014 (all DIN, 6MT/DCT)
F80: 1,520/1,560 kg
F82: 1,497/1,537 kg

01/2015 (Competition Package)
F80: 1,535/1,560 kg
F82: 1,515/1,540 kg

09/2018 (OPF, no CF driveshaft, non-Competition)
F80: dead
F82: 1,570/1,595 kg

Head hurts from these numbers, am out.
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      01-11-2021, 03:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Weight figures of the base models were pulled from the available press materials on press.bmwgroup.com which all use the same method, i.e. DIN and EU/"Leergewicht EG". F82 09/2018 (post WLTP), G82 09/2020

DIN weight, as I eluded in my previous post, features a car in running order with 90% fuel and no optional equipment; EU/EG-Leergewicht weight adds 75 kg to that number. That means there is no need to add 10 kg (standard seats) to the 1,660-kg "base" M4. If 1,630 kg is what an M4 weighs with buckets, then you just add ca. 10 kg to that figure and you've got a car with standard seats. I did not see CCBs in the video, it is possible it had them; no argument here.

BMW Deutschland use EG-Leergewicht in their brochures. Standard equipment varied a lot on the F8x M3/4 which is why I highlighted some of the standard German features. Some markets got manual seats, base iDrive without sat nav, etc.

However, it is safe to say that BMW high-key pulled a Ferrari on us with the original weight figures of the F8x. Somehow the DCT lost weight over the years, too.

03/2014 (all DIN, 6MT/DCT)
F80: 1,520/1,560 kg
F82: 1,497/1,537 kg

01/2015 (Competition Package)
F80: 1,535/1,560 kg
F82: 1,515/1,540 kg

09/2018 (OPF, no CF driveshaft, non-Competition)
F80: dead
F82: 1,570/1,595 kg

Head hurts from these numbers, am out.
What do you mean by no need to add 10kg for the std seats?

The curb weight stated by BMW is for the car with std seats. That means if you option CF buckets (and steel brakes) you can subtract 10kg from the stated curb weight.
If you order with std seats (and steel brakes) the curb weight is as stated.
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      01-11-2021, 04:53 PM   #32
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The video was talking about all of the weight saving and at the end it weighed more?? Couldn't figure it out....

Terrible voiceover - at least mute the German which at times kicked in!
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      01-11-2021, 04:58 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveChester View Post
The video was talking about all of the weight saving and at the end it weighed more?? Couldn't figure it out....

Terrible voiceover - at least mute the German which at times kicked in!
Most weight savings are vs the standard 4 series as CF roof, removing sound deadening, aluminum doors and hood. The CF seats are vs the standard G8X seats. The crank shaft...no idea but I hope it’s vs the X3M. So nothing is directly vs the car on the other scale.
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      01-11-2021, 04:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphirschwarz View Post
Hiring Bill Murray for this video really shows the marketing commitment for the G80/82
Lol
The guy reminded me of some brainwashed POW clip with his eyes periodically reading off something behind the camera and then looking directly into the lens. He was like save me from this overweight monstrosity!! I'll likely still end up getting one, but just saying
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      01-11-2021, 05:10 PM   #35
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I am sure I am not the only one seriously wondering who this amateurish promo video was meant for!?!
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      01-11-2021, 05:13 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet_F82 View Post
The F82 Competition they compared the new car to is a fully loaded, DCT car with a curb weight of 1640kg with a full tank. They compare it to a manual stripper G82, with the lightweight carbon buckets and that weighs 1674kg. So the manual G82 is heavier than a DCT F82, which already was heavier than a Manual F82. Also, this is WITHOUT AWD. I'm not sure how they can spin this to look good.

"Episode 01" seems to indicate this will be a series.
How can you tell the f82 is loaded and g82 isn’t?
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      01-11-2021, 05:24 PM   #37
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That the car is “in part” faster than an M4 GTS when wearing cup tires is somewhat eye-popping. Sub 7:30 Nordschleife time or is this the part where it’s not faster...? Guess we need to wait another couple of months to know what he mean here.
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      01-11-2021, 05:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
How can you tell the f82 is loaded and g82 isn’t?
DCT, full leather, ICON Lights, etc
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      01-11-2021, 05:36 PM   #39
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For reference and to compare apples-to-apples, Auto Motor und Sport weighed their 2014 6MT M4 test vehicle at 1,592kg, which translates to a 82kg / 181lb weight increase 6MT to 6MT.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...hnische-daten/
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      01-11-2021, 05:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
- “Lightened crankshaft” vs what? X3M or S55?
My guess is vs B58.
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      01-11-2021, 05:43 PM   #41
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there is a reason they did intentionally not compare apple to apple here (F82 comp vs G82 std)... The G82 was in lightest spec possible on purpose, we could see it had 6MT and carbon seats and i'd also guess CCB... so if we were to take a comparable G82 comp with ZF + normal seats + possibly normal brakes that's probably at least another 60 Kg...
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      01-11-2021, 05:47 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet_F82 View Post
DCT, full leather, ICON Lights, etc
Looks like the G has full leather as well, and both have HUD too. Assuming it has exec pkg from that, not sure if HUD is available separately in other markets. I took his comment (the translation of it, anyway) about a lightweight configuration to mean 6MT + the seats, not that it didn't have any options. I guess a definitive apples to apples is still TBD, but it's a nice surprise to see this come in sub-3700 lbs. Was expecting 3900+.
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      01-11-2021, 05:48 PM   #43
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More of this. Get it on a lift let’s discuss the groin.
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      01-11-2021, 06:39 PM   #44
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So this G gen M4 with Steptronic (horrible memories) sits at 3745lbs according to BMW.

If true, that's not bad at all. That's approaching Alfa G Quad mass with more power.
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