04-17-2024, 04:36 AM | #45 | |
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I’ve driven practically every 992 Carrera variant and “destroy” is definitely not the word I’d use to describe the driving experience versus the G8x. My view is they’re actually quite evenly matched, with some elements of the drive better in the 992, but absolutely within the same ballpark, and at exceptionally high cost and with meaningful compromises in other areas. Coming from the G8x, I never got to a place where I could justify spending the price difference for one. I’ve owned multiple 992 Turbo S and that is the only non-GT 992 that feels (and is) properly head and shoulders above the G8x. |
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04-17-2024, 04:58 AM | #46 | |
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The manual transmission is excellent compared to the M. Again, the M for me is a good car but I don’t see any similarities in the two products. The 911 has better brakes and a much better brake pedal feel. The power is much more linear vs the M delivery. The overall handling of the 911 is just so precise and predictable. The M is a quick car that has a lot of weight to it. It’s a great sports car with a lot of metal following it. This isn’t an M bashing. After all, I’ve owned a bunch and just picked up a G87 and really like it a lot. I just never paralleled them to any 911 model given the fact that they aren’t even in the same category. |
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04-17-2024, 01:27 PM | #47 |
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On my 5th Porsche. Currently a 991.2 gt3 (and Macan Turbo). I enjoyed a Cayman, and I think it is great for a DD, plenty of space. Cayman really is all the Porsche one could want. You'll like it.
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04-21-2024, 10:50 AM | #48 | ||
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https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/po...ca-plunges-23/ Quote:
Not busted on anything. They are down, currently and pretty significantly in the two largest markets. https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/po...ca-plunges-23/ I just dont think the 3.0 in the 992 is very exciting. It sounds bland, had a very monotone nature whereas the S58 feels much more racebred in nature and does pull harder at any point in the rev range. And the gearing on the G8x is perfect while the Porsche gearing is simply too long and takes away from the experience. The Macan being as quick as a 6MT M3 is simply transmission and AWD. A Macan GTS is significantly slower than an M3 AWD. Last edited by HeelToeShift; 04-22-2024 at 06:43 AM.. |
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04-21-2024, 11:01 AM | #49 | |
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And your links don’t work… |
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04-21-2024, 12:37 PM | #50 |
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Porsche sales down globally 4%:
https://insideevs.com/news/715844/po...he%20new%20911. Taycan sales down over 50% https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...es/ar-BB1lnuUV "Global deliveries stood at 77,640 cars worldwide, Porsche said, with deliveries down 24% and 23% year-on-year in China and North America, respectively." Last edited by HeelToeShift; 04-21-2024 at 12:42 PM.. |
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04-21-2024, 12:54 PM | #51 | |
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Oh, first paragraph from your link…. Which, at least according to Porsche, is supply driven…not demand driven which is what we’ve been talking about… Porsche reports that its global car sales during the first quarter of 2024 amounted to 77,640 (down 4% year-over-year). The slight decrease is explained by the company as due to the model changeover, including four out of six model lines: the all-electric Macan, the new Panamera, the Taycan, and the new 911. |
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04-21-2024, 01:16 PM | #52 | |
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"Porsche experienced a 4% decline in deliveries worldwide during the first quarter of 2024. This dip, totaling 77,640 vehicles, contrasts with the consistent growth trend observed in recent years. Notably, North America and China witnessed significant declines of 23% and 24%, respectively, attributed to various factors such as customs delays and economic conditions. Conversely, Germany saw a remarkable surge of 37% in deliveries, while Europe as a whole experienced a 9% increase. My point is that, I believe there is a bit of a shift going on with Porsche. As someone who has always driven the brand, and still do (still my favorite brand), I think consumers are getting fed up with the pricing/lack of quality (which has taken a decent turn downward), and are also moving to other marques. A Carrera GTS for 200K is laughable IMO. We shall see how it tends, but I think the Porsche bubble of the last few years is starting to deflate. |
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04-21-2024, 02:06 PM | #53 | |
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If this forum is any indication, the desire/demand for the brand is strong. You even said that it’s your favorite brand. Consumers want a Porsche but, agree, the price and borrowing costs will put a lot of pressure on buyers. Something else to consider are is the price delta of Porsche to an alternative. $100k+ for a M3 also seems laughable. |
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04-21-2024, 03:27 PM | #54 | |
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I do think that for $90-100K (assuming an Xdrive car) you get 90-95% of what a $170-200K MSRP (assuming you're not paying an ADM on top of that) C2S/4S/GTS give you and don't think that 5-10% is worth that delta anymore - it used to be worth it when the 911s were still NA but these turbo cars, while faster, just don't deliver the same experience for me. Also, (as you know) you can get into an M3 with a manual and nearly 500 hp for about 80-85K, and for that level of performance and handling, it is a bargain and a rarity. To get a manual 911, you need to spend 2X that for what doesnt equate to much, if any, additional performance. Last edited by HeelToeShift; 04-21-2024 at 09:08 PM.. |
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04-21-2024, 07:14 PM | #55 | |
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04-21-2024, 07:28 PM | #56 |
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04-22-2024, 02:57 AM | #57 |
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Consider a 992 or 991.2 T manual. I have a G81 M3 and it’s the perfect 1 car solution. I also have a 992 manual T and it’s the perfect pair. The 911 T which mates the base engine with the manual gearbox is something that car fans dreams are made off. I have far more fun self-shifting at 30-50mph in the 911 than I do in the M3 Comp with the ZF8 and confected exhaust overruns. If you can only have one car though the M3 is the one to keep. The rear seated T has some extra flex over a 718 (I have taken people in the back row but not for long distances).
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04-23-2024, 06:55 PM | #58 | |
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04-24-2024, 08:20 AM | #59 | |
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I think it sucks. I think many of the cars are no longer worth their asking price compared to competition. But...people keep buying. |
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04-24-2024, 10:40 AM | #60 | |
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Where I have a problem is the fact that they're being sold for more than Porsche thinks they're worth and that's being enabled with intentionally lower production numbers.
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04-24-2024, 11:01 AM | #61 | |
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What I also have a problem with is $170k Carrera S's, $190k Targas and Quarter Million Turbo S's. My 997 Turbo S, which was a 2011, had an MSRP in the $165k range. Similarly a 991.1 GT3 had an "as equipped" average price in the $150k-ish range. So for a GT3 or a Turbo S you're talking $50k to $60k more in a decade. it's not that much more car. |
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04-24-2024, 08:09 PM | #62 | |
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04-24-2024, 08:15 PM | #63 | |
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All 911’s are desirable but the enthusiast really needs to get to the GTS or ‘higher’ to get the overall performance and experience of a focused sports car. But the GTS or higher are just so expensive. I would go back a generation or two and for similar money as a T, you can get a much more special car. |
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04-24-2024, 08:57 PM | #64 | |
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I spent nearly the same in options on the M3. If someone wants to spec their GT3 with a paint to sample colored bespoke leather fuel cap and blacked out exclusive design bespoke leather taillights, that's their problem. MSRP for a 2019 GT3 was 143,600 which is about a 40k difference between the two model years.
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04-26-2024, 07:11 PM | #65 | |
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I got 7% off MSRP on the Macan S within 15 minutes of negotiations. I ended up getting a GTS. There are plenty of Cayenne and Macan allocations out there and 2025s are around the corner. |
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04-27-2024, 09:05 AM | #66 | |
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So far on the 992 you're at 10,000+, so they are producing the higher margin cars at higher rates. Of that 10,000, half are RS'. |
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