All electric next-gen M3/M4 still yet to be decided. Combustion engine still possible

harperium · 07-20-2023, 07:50 AM

Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

Perhaps he's seen the disaster that is the new AMG C63S.

Next-Gen BMW M3 And M4 May Not Go Electric After All

https://carbuzz.com/news/next-gen-bm...tric-after-all

They may go electric eventually, but there's a chance a combustion engine may power the next generation.

JUL. 19, 2023

BMW M representatives have previously suggested the next generation M3 and M4 will be pure electric vehicles, but according to M CEO Frank van Meel, a decision is yet to be made.

Speaking to Australia's Drive, van Meel said that while an all-electric M3/M4 is still under consideration, BMW M would only introduce such a thing if it was a significant improvement over the existing models. "Well, the logic is quite easy. The next [M3 and M4] has to be better than the current one. And if that can be done in an electric way, then probably it will go electric," he said.

"If not, we will stay with [the] combustion engine. It's pretty easy. But, of course, we're trying to make that happen as pure electric. Don't expect an electric version to be sold alongside an ICE-powered variant or a plug-in hybrid model. "Well, I don't think all three. That will be too far, said van Meel.

"Actually, we would like to offer just one. But you never know," he added.

hhkb · 07-20-2023, 08:09 AM

The M CEO basically just listed all possible scenarios. Maybe not, maybe so. Could be ICE, could be hybrid, could be EV. Could happen sooner or later.

Either way, I’m an advocate for technological progression and I trust that BMW’s M division and Porsche’s GT division will do it right.

kamilbaran · 07-20-2023, 08:29 AM

Hopefully they stay combustion, for one final run. No hybrid would be ideal, but if we are going to get combustion by then for another long sell period, it will sadly be hybrid.

Prossx · 07-20-2023, 08:36 AM

Makes you wonder if the current G8x platform success and significant manual sales in the US, etc. is now weighing on their decisions which would presumably need to happen fairly soon to release a new model in ~ 3 - 4 years.

Jekkameister · 07-20-2023, 08:38 AM

If they decide to go electric, they will notice a steep drop off in sales and the increase in older combustion engine prices. You buy an M3 for the power, the looks, the sounds! Just because it’s electric and “the cool new thing” doesn’t mean that it’s actually a step forward. And what about 5 years down the line, when your battery capacity shrinks to a fraction of what it used to be new? Range decreases, power decreases, and nobody wants to deal with -electrical- issues- which is 90% of what happens with -electric- cars

SoCali E36 · 07-20-2023, 08:40 AM

This will be the death of M if it goes all electric. I sell these cars and it’s pretty obvious what people prefer. All we have is electric models sitting around while the gas models continue to fly off the lot. And now bmw is tossing huge incentives at the electrics because they’re not moving.

Hell, there are over 300 XM’s out there not assigning to dealers sitting around in priorty 5 status. The XM should be the example bmw learns from. People with money don’t want electric or plug-in hybrids as performance cars.

Forzanerazzurri · 07-20-2023, 08:46 AM

Call me skeptical. I think there is zero chance they remain ICE for a 2026 new gen.

ghaffari46 · 07-20-2023, 08:47 AM

The International Energy Agency expects over 14 million EVs to be sold globally in 2023, which would account for about 18 percent of total car sales. The figure would represent a 35 percent increase year over year, accounting for as much as 18 percent of total car sales in 2023, so unlike popular belief many people globally embrace EVs.
The breakpoint is 20%, which will happen pretty soon, under 80% market share is not profitable for car companies to keep making ICE. Considering significant environmental changes that are happening now, many more people will embrace EVs( my 10 year old told me this morning I should take tesla instead my m5 to work to be more responsible, go figure!).
So as much as traditional car companies wanted to drag their feet to stay away from EVs, but market and governmental policies make them to be less dependent on ICE cars.

YXEM5 · 07-20-2023, 08:47 AM

That was a perfect political answer. Essentially, he is saying they don't know and it could be anything.

I, however, am going to look at his response as a realization that EV's are part of the equation and not the answer.

There is a market for EV'S, there is a market for hybrids, there is a market for noisy, smelly high performance ICE vehicles. There is no reason all of these can't happily coexist. And most importantly, no reason BMW can't profit extremely well from allowing customers to choose which car fits their needs.

vasillalov · 07-20-2023, 08:56 AM

The XM is an overbloated, overpriced, highly impractical and with questionable design. Its a exercise in design and engineering, but not appealing to the general M customer at all. You can't expect M division to base their entire strategy based on the success of that monstrosity of a vehicle.

Read between the lines people. The M division boss is leaving all options on the table, but the decision will be made on the politicians table. We all know EU is supposed to enforce zero emissions for new vehicles in 2030. That's why everyone is rapidly developing their electric technology. However, there is a serious conversation between the automakers and the EU regulators about either extending the 2030 deadline or allowing for exceptions for the rules (like synthetic fuels) or both.

Let me also remind you that even though EU parliament has authority, every EU country can choose to veto a decision and not participate. Central and Eastern European countries are most definitely not ready for this transition to zero emissions by 2030.

So, through lobbying, corruption, loopholes and vetoes, you could expect an extension to occur. The final nail in the ICE would be if more markets adopt this zero emissions policy. Commieformia is doing it by 2035, for an example, so that gives easy 5 extra years of "wait and see".

DocWeatherington · 07-20-2023, 09:02 AM

Agree they should do a hybrid, the EV tech as of today isn't there. If they look at the biggest markets it sells well and then some. For those places that have issues well you have an I4 for that.

People will always pay for an ICE motor in this class of vehicle.

I'm certain bmw has the tech on hand to keep ICE motors alive until they get outright banned if it ever happens.

bcjbmwm3 · 07-20-2023, 09:03 AM

If the g8X turns out to be the last ice m3 then it will make it even more special.

I hope it doesn’t go electic

DFW_M · 07-20-2023, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prossx

Makes you wonder if the current G8x platform success and significant manual sales in the US, etc. is now weighing on their decisions which would presumably need to happen fairly soon to release a new model in ~ 3 - 4 years.

What are the "significant" manual sales??
I still see way more Comp vehicles on this forum and on the road than the MT. I don't think a slight increase (if any) would sway their decision and flip the next gen platform to ICE (with global transition laws) just to keep MT alive...

MiamiFan13 · 07-20-2023, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harperium

. "Well, the logic is quite easy. The next [M3 and M4] has to be better than the current one. And if that can be done in an electric way, then probably it will go electric," he said.

Here's your problem right here. This thinking needs to change. For most driving enthusiasts, it can't POSSIBLY be better as electric. I don't know any driving enthusiasts that went to electric and found long term satisfaction. I believe in progress....but this is one area that doesn't benefit from it.

///M TOWN · 07-20-2023, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jekkameister

If they decide to go electric, they will notice a steep drop off in sales and the increase in older combustion engine prices. You buy an M3 for the power, the looks, the sounds! Just because it’s electric and “the cool new thing” doesn’t mean that it’s actually a step forward. And what about 5 years down the line, when your battery capacity shrinks to a fraction of what it used to be new? Range decreases, power decreases, and nobody wants to deal with -electrical- issues- which is 90% of what happens with -electric- cars

You basically posted a bunch of FUD

Fear… Uncertainty… Doubt

Needsdecaf · 07-20-2023, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prossx

Makes you wonder if the current G8x platform success and significant manual sales in the US, etc. is now weighing on their decisions which would presumably need to happen fairly soon to release a new model in ~ 3 - 4 years.

Corporate CAFE and the equivalent EU comparable and the huge fines they face if they don't meet targets are WAY more of a compelling reason than manual sales in the US....

Needsdecaf · 07-20-2023, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

You basically posted a bunch of FUD

Fear… Uncertainty… Doubt

It's worse than that. It's downright false. This quote:

" And what about 5 years down the line, when your battery capacity shrinks to a fraction of what it used to be new? Range decreases, power decreases, and nobody wants to deal with -electrical- issues- which is 90% of what happens with -electric- cars"

Is utterly, utterly false.

First of all, 'shrinks to a fraction' is completely false. Like patently so. There are hundreds of thousands of EV's on the road, so there is very reliable data. This loss in capacity simply doesn't happen with modern batteries.

Second...'electrical issues'? Yeah, you have some. But what about...

Rod bearings
Spun Crank Hubs
HPFP's crapping out
Carbon build up on DI engines
Batteries dying due to on-demand alternators
VANOS actuators
Self-destructing cooling systems

And on and on. There are way, WAY more things that can (and have!) gone wrong with BMW Turbo engines. Like..way more.

I'm a former EV owner and a fan. What I can tell you is that there ARE real issues to mass EV adoption. Like, where you charge if you don't live in a single family house. How do you balance emotion with performance. Where do we get all the raw materials to make all these batteries. How good is it if you regularly tow or do hundreds of miles a day on a consistent basis. Etc.

But "loss of capacity" and "electrical issues" are completely solved at this point.

uniqueMR · 07-20-2023, 09:23 AM

M CEO needs to makeup his mind. Confusing fella

ICE, EV or Hybrid.

Game · 07-20-2023, 09:26 AM

Learn from Mercedes' mistake.

ano0oj · 07-20-2023, 09:29 AM

Hybrid is clearly the next evolution for M. The XM and new M5 are hybrids, those things trickle down eventually.

All electric would be a disaster, and BMW knows they'll lose their loyal M fans if that happens too soon.

i4M50Guy · 07-20-2023, 09:31 AM

Full BEV. 4 motor, 1000+ BHP. Do it!

OC-M3CX · 07-20-2023, 09:34 AM

Hate to say it but electric is the future. The tech may not be there yet but it will be. Battery tech is only going to get better. Maybe not in the next gen but certainly after. People said they wouldn’t buy the G8xs because of the grille, how it’s a disgrace to BMW but turns out it’s not that bad.

07-20-2023, 07:50 AM	#1
harperium Major 1313 Rep 1,064 Posts Drives: G80 M3cx Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	All electric next-gen M3/M4 still yet to be decided. Combustion engine still possible Featured on BIMMERPOST.com Perhaps he's seen the disaster that is the new AMG C63S. Next-Gen BMW M3 And M4 May Not Go Electric After All https://carbuzz.com/news/next-gen-bm...tric-after-all They may go electric eventually, but there's a chance a combustion engine may power the next generation. JUL. 19, 2023 BMW M representatives have previously suggested the next generation M3 and M4 will be pure electric vehicles, but according to M CEO Frank van Meel, a decision is yet to be made. Speaking to Australia's Drive, van Meel said that while an all-electric M3/M4 is still under consideration, BMW M would only introduce such a thing if it was a significant improvement over the existing models. "Well, the logic is quite easy. The next [M3 and M4] has to be better than the current one. And if that can be done in an electric way, then probably it will go electric," he said. "If not, we will stay with [the] combustion engine. It's pretty easy. But, of course, we're trying to make that happen as pure electric. Don't expect an electric version to be sold alongside an ICE-powered variant or a plug-in hybrid model. "Well, I don't think all three. That will be too far, said van Meel. "Actually, we would like to offer just one. But you never know," he added.
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07-20-2023, 08:09 AM	#2
hhkb Lieutenant 861 Rep 478 Posts Drives: 2024 M3 Join Date: May 2023 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	The M CEO basically just listed all possible scenarios. Maybe not, maybe so. Could be ICE, could be hybrid, could be EV. Could happen sooner or later. Either way, I’m an advocate for technological progression and I trust that BMW’s M division and Porsche’s GT division will do it right. __________________ 2024 BMW M3, 6MT, Alpine White
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07-20-2023, 08:29 AM	#3
kamilbaran Private First Class 138 Rep 182 Posts Drives: '18 Yas Marina M3, '17 M240i Join Date: May 2022 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	Hopefully they stay combustion, for one final run. No hybrid would be ideal, but if we are going to get combustion by then for another long sell period, it will sadly be hybrid.
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07-20-2023, 08:36 AM	#4
Prossx First Lieutenant 293 Rep 379 Posts Drives: 21 G82 6MT SPY/YMB Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Kansas City iTrader: (0)	Makes you wonder if the current G8x platform success and significant manual sales in the US, etc. is now weighing on their decisions which would presumably need to happen fairly soon to release a new model in ~ 3 - 4 years. __________________ 15 F80 YMB DCT - retired 14 F30 MSport MG/CR 6MT - retired
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07-20-2023, 08:38 AM	#5
Jekkameister New Member 68 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW 430i Gran Coupe Join Date: Apr 2023 Location: New York, USA iTrader: (0)	If they decide to go electric, they will notice a steep drop off in sales and the increase in older combustion engine prices. You buy an M3 for the power, the looks, the sounds! Just because it’s electric and “the cool new thing” doesn’t mean that it’s actually a step forward. And what about 5 years down the line, when your battery capacity shrinks to a fraction of what it used to be new? Range decreases, power decreases, and nobody wants to deal with -electrical- issues- which is 90% of what happens with -electric- cars
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07-20-2023, 08:40 AM	#6
SoCali E36 BMW Client Advisor 1000 Rep 3,526 Posts Drives: X5 40e/e36 M3 Sedan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Where the road takes me... iTrader: (10)	This will be the death of M if it goes all electric. I sell these cars and it’s pretty obvious what people prefer. All we have is electric models sitting around while the gas models continue to fly off the lot. And now bmw is tossing huge incentives at the electrics because they’re not moving. Hell, there are over 300 XM’s out there not assigning to dealers sitting around in priorty 5 status. The XM should be the example bmw learns from. People with money don’t want electric or plug-in hybrids as performance cars. __________________
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07-20-2023, 08:46 AM	#7
Forzanerazzurri Banned 6918 Rep 3,277 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Coupe/G80 M3CX Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Alberta iTrader: (0) Garage List 2003 BMW M3 Coupe [0.50] 2022 BMW M3 Competi ... [5.12]	Call me skeptical. I think there is zero chance they remain ICE for a 2026 new gen.
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07-20-2023, 08:47 AM	#8
ghaffari46 Captain 1128 Rep 682 Posts Drives: bmw m3 e90 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: us iTrader: (0)	The International Energy Agency expects over 14 million EVs to be sold globally in 2023, which would account for about 18 percent of total car sales. The figure would represent a 35 percent increase year over year, accounting for as much as 18 percent of total car sales in 2023, so unlike popular belief many people globally embrace EVs. The breakpoint is 20%, which will happen pretty soon, under 80% market share is not profitable for car companies to keep making ICE. Considering significant environmental changes that are happening now, many more people will embrace EVs( my 10 year old told me this morning I should take tesla instead my m5 to work to be more responsible, go figure!). So as much as traditional car companies wanted to drag their feet to stay away from EVs, but market and governmental policies make them to be less dependent on ICE cars.
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07-20-2023, 08:47 AM	#9
YXEM5 Private First Class 185 Rep 155 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 ZCP Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Wild West iTrader: (0)	That was a perfect political answer. Essentially, he is saying they don't know and it could be anything. I, however, am going to look at his response as a realization that EV's are part of the equation and not the answer. There is a market for EV'S, there is a market for hybrids, there is a market for noisy, smelly high performance ICE vehicles. There is no reason all of these can't happily coexist. And most importantly, no reason BMW can't profit extremely well from allowing customers to choose which car fits their needs.
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07-20-2023, 08:56 AM	#10
vasillalov Mad Linux Guru On The Loose 1121 Rep 5,396 Posts Drives: 2008 335i Sedan, 2023 M3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (5) Garage List 2023 BMW M3 [0.00] 2008 335i E90 [8.00]	The XM is an overbloated, overpriced, highly impractical and with questionable design. Its a exercise in design and engineering, but not appealing to the general M customer at all. You can't expect M division to base their entire strategy based on the success of that monstrosity of a vehicle. Read between the lines people. The M division boss is leaving all options on the table, but the decision will be made on the politicians table. We all know EU is supposed to enforce zero emissions for new vehicles in 2030. That's why everyone is rapidly developing their electric technology. However, there is a serious conversation between the automakers and the EU regulators about either extending the 2030 deadline or allowing for exceptions for the rules (like synthetic fuels) or both. Let me also remind you that even though EU parliament has authority, every EU country can choose to veto a decision and not participate. Central and Eastern European countries are most definitely not ready for this transition to zero emissions by 2030. So, through lobbying, corruption, loopholes and vetoes, you could expect an extension to occur. The final nail in the ICE would be if more markets adopt this zero emissions policy. Commieformia is doing it by 2035, for an example, so that gives easy 5 extra years of "wait and see".
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07-20-2023, 09:02 AM	#11
DocWeatherington Brigadier General 2939 Rep 4,087 Posts Drives: F90 CP Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: US iTrader: (0) Garage List 23 Bmw M3 [10.00]	Agree they should do a hybrid, the EV tech as of today isn't there. If they look at the biggest markets it sells well and then some. For those places that have issues well you have an I4 for that. People will always pay for an ICE motor in this class of vehicle. I'm certain bmw has the tech on hand to keep ICE motors alive until they get outright banned if it ever happens.
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07-20-2023, 09:03 AM	#12
bcjbmwm3 Second Lieutenant 340 Rep 239 Posts Drives: 2020 BMW M340i xDrive Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: New Lenox, Illinois iTrader: (0)	If the g8X turns out to be the last ice m3 then it will make it even more special. I hope it doesn’t go electic __________________ Current - 2020 G20 M340i Mineral White/Cognac Past - 2016 F22 M235i Dinan S3, 2009 E92 M3, 2010 Nissan 370Z, 2004 E46 330i, 2003 E46 325i, 1999 E46 323i
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07-20-2023, 09:23 AM	#18
uniqueMR Colonel 1883 Rep 2,924 Posts Drives: ... Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	M CEO needs to makeup his mind. Confusing fella ICE, EV or Hybrid. __________________ Currently: '24 Mercedes G63 \| '24 Porsche GT3 RS \| '24 Volkswagen GTI Previous BMWs: 340i, 740i, 745Li, M3, M4 Previous Others: Audi, Ducati, Honda, Infiniti, Land Rover, Mercedes-Benz, MINI, Mitsubishi, Porsche, Toyota, Volkswagen
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07-20-2023, 09:26 AM	#19
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07-20-2023, 09:29 AM	#20
ano0oj Captain 318 Rep 746 Posts Drives: '22 M3 AWD, '23 Macan S Join Date: May 2009 Location: Houston iTrader: (4)	Hybrid is clearly the next evolution for M. The XM and new M5 are hybrids, those things trickle down eventually. All electric would be a disaster, and BMW knows they'll lose their loyal M fans if that happens too soon.
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07-20-2023, 09:31 AM	#21
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07-20-2023, 09:34 AM	#22
OC-M3CX New Member 21 Rep 8 Posts Drives: 2023 M3CX Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	Hate to say it but electric is the future. The tech may not be there yet but it will be. Battery tech is only going to get better. Maybe not in the next gen but certainly after. People said they wouldn’t buy the G8xs because of the grille, how it’s a disgrace to BMW but turns out it’s not that bad.
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