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      11-21-2021, 09:57 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGS View Post
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Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe View Post
Does it not rain where you are?
Yes, and when it does, I drive like a sane person, so I have no fear in my RWD G82 of being "dangerous". I'm not racing down public roads in a spirited fashion in the rain. For me, not worth the risk with other drivers on the road, especially since many don't drive well in inclement weather (slippery, lower visibility, etc.)

And hec, when you read comments like the below, who cares about "safety" anyway, it's all about the performance.

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Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
I think you're missing the point and conflating things. Nobody ever discussed "safety" here. You shouldn't talk about it.

This is a performance car.
AWD is a performance feature. Especially in inclement weather.

It is a shame when you have a car that could potentially accelerate quickly off the line get stuck spinning while the 80hp Subaru/SUV lurches forward.
Indeed. So if you're one to feel "bad" about your purchase when an 80hp Subaru beats you to 30 mph because they had more traction in the first 2 seconds, then by all means buy an AWD vehicle to prevent that sadness from happening to you.

Many of us are not stoplight racers. So I could care less that the Subaru pulls me across the intersection, because the Subaru owner and I both know which car we'd rather be in ...and if we're traveling any farther than 150 feet, we both know that I'll be blowing past them, if I wanted to.

But if real world 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile races are everything to you, obviously you should get the AWD version.

And really, as I've always said, if you have the money, the AWD version is likely the better purchase for most. But if you're trying to save money, and you're not on a consistent mission of squeezing every ounce of performance out of a G8X, then I contend that the RWD will do just fine for most, since it has loads of traction in its own right.
I'll stop commenting as it's clear you've never driven a car in deep snow, where you can't pass anyone on the highway due to lack of traction. You get moving and stay moving slowly but can't pass or accelerate. You clearly have never driven in deep winter. And the fact you're resorting to personal attacks on whether I would "feel bad" for being in a slower car just makes me want to ignore you even further.

For the record, I drive a 1 wheel drive car, so I know exactly what I'm talking about, and if I could drive a 2WD, I would. Even more an AWD. As long as it is a manual. Which this isn't.

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      11-21-2021, 11:32 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
I'll stop commenting as it's clear you've never driven a car in deep snow, where you can't pass anyone on the highway due to lack of traction. You get moving and stay moving slowly but can't pass or accelerate. You clearly have never driven in deep winter. And the fact you're resorting to personal attacks on whether I would "feel bad" for being in a slower car just makes me want to ignore you even further.

For the record, I drive a 1 wheel drive car, so I know exactly what I'm talking about, and if I could drive a 2WD, I would. Even more an AWD. As long as it is a manual. Which this isn't.

Cheers
I'm pretty sure he missed the entire point and assumed "performance of being able to get your family safely off the line at all in the snow" was really a "sweet illegal drag race at 2am vs a Subaru in the warehouse district" LOL.
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      11-22-2021, 07:41 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfit View Post
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To me, this test does not represent a significant victory of the AWD over the RWD. I would still pick the RWD for the added fun, and leave the half second on the table.
But that's the point. You don't have to pick. Just click a button and you have RWD for when you want it.
The difference with the AWD model is that the car's DSC needs to be switched all the way off to activate RWD mode.
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      11-22-2021, 07:53 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
The difference with the AWD model is that the car's DSC needs to be switched all the way off to activate RWD mode.
Yes, but if you spec'd M Drive Professional, you will be able to specify M-Traction Control in 10 increments.
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      11-22-2021, 03:11 PM   #71
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Finally, I find it pretty crazy that so many people are arguing that a 100-150 lbs weight penalty cannot be felt, all other things being perfectly equal ...

My M240i was far slower to accelerate when I took my 160 lbs younger brother for a ride. I was a bit embarrassed actually, because I talked up the acceleration to him only to be disappointed once he was along for the ride.
Generally I can follow your thoughts ... but to be fair, the following things have to be stated:
1. Your weight arguments are a bit off! 1st - The AWD version isn't 160lbs heavier, but <100 lbs. 2nd - the added weight is low down, your comparo with additional passengers is therefore off. 3rd - the comparo to a 240i, which has 150hp/150Nm less is also a bit off.

-> the impact/noticeability of the added weight will be much smaller as in your examples.

2. Please take into account, that the "only 0.5s faster at track" to a great extent comes from the fact, that Sutcliff is a very good/skilled driver (most likely more skilled than 95% of ///M customers) AND he knows the track very well.
The track time delta for a lesser/unexperienced driver would be much bigger!

Many things you said remind me of my feelings towards AWD the last 20 years. I've to drive both versions ... but after having heared so many positive/pro AWD verdicts from respected reviewers, I do see some chances, that this time M did deliver a tech package, where I could lean towards AWD.
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      11-22-2021, 04:23 PM   #72
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Just for refence, the difference in AWD weight vs RWD is roughly a full tank of gas.
15.59 gallons X 6.3 lb/gallon = ~98 lbs

How many of can tell how full your gas tank is without looking at the gauge?

The only reason to go RWD is you want 6MT.
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      11-22-2021, 05:36 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by superbrew View Post
Just for refence, the difference in AWD weight vs RWD is roughly a full tank of gas.
15.59 gallons X 6.3 lb/gallon = ~98 lbs

How many of can tell how full your gas tank is without looking at the gauge?

The only reason to go RWD is you want 6MT.
I'd agree with this.
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      11-22-2021, 09:25 PM   #74
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Impressive to be sure. In England, with no manual transmission option, I'd go for the xDrive as well. Here in the US, I'd give up more than a second or two on a track to have a manual...

Overall I'm happy to see we are moving along from debating about the look of the grill to how the G8X actually drives and performs.
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      11-22-2021, 10:16 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superbrew View Post
Just for refence, the difference in AWD weight vs RWD is roughly a full tank of gas.
15.59 gallons X 6.3 lb/gallon = ~98 lbs

How many of can tell how full your gas tank is without looking at the gauge?

The only reason to go RWD is you want 6MT.
A full tank of gas ruins the driving dynamics!!!!
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      11-22-2021, 10:21 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWRacer523 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
The difference with the AWD model is that the car's DSC needs to be switched all the way off to activate RWD mode.
Yes, but if you spec'd M Drive Professional, you will be able to specify M-Traction Control in 10 increments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWRacer523 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
The difference with the AWD model is that the car's DSC needs to be switched all the way off to activate RWD mode.
Yes, but if you spec'd M Drive Professional, you will be able to specify M-Traction Control in 10 increments.
M-Traction control in an AWD car running in RWD mode doesn't have DSC on. Just tuck that in the back of your head before you try stupid sh1t. 2 very different things. Although I think I would rather like M-Traction control over everything else TBH in all my cars.

Oh just came here because finally someone mentioned the grills…nows my chance to chime in on those built in snow shovels…
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      11-23-2021, 07:50 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrt View Post
M-Traction control in an AWD car running in RWD mode doesn't have DSC on. Just tuck that in the back of your head before you try stupid sh1t. 2 very different things. Although I think I would rather like M-Traction control over everything else TBH in all my cars.

Oh just came here because finally someone mentioned the grills…nows my chance to chime in on those built in snow shovels…
Why do you care about RWD if you need the DSC safety net?
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      11-23-2021, 07:58 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrt View Post
M-Traction control in an AWD car running in RWD mode doesn't have DSC on. Just tuck that in the back of your head before you try stupid sh1t. 2 very different things. Although I think I would rather like M-Traction control over everything else TBH in all my cars.
I'm quite aware of the difference.
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      11-23-2021, 08:18 AM   #79
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This thread is still going ? Geez - come on people. So much BS from the RWD folks talking about how fun the AWD isn't.

This morning I was grinning ear to ear while going sideways (controlled) rear wheels spinning, front wheels pulling me out and rocketing forward.
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      11-23-2021, 08:55 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWRacer523 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrt View Post
M-Traction control in an AWD car running in RWD mode doesn't have DSC on. Just tuck that in the back of your head before you try stupid sh1t. 2 very different things. Although I think I would rather like M-Traction control over everything else TBH in all my cars.
I'm quite aware of the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrt View Post
M-Traction control in an AWD car running in RWD mode doesn't have DSC on. Just tuck that in the back of your head before you try stupid sh1t. 2 very different things. Although I think I would rather like M-Traction control over everything else TBH in all my cars.

Oh just came here because finally someone mentioned the grills…nows my chance to chime in on those built in snow shovels…
Why do you care about RWD if you need the DSC safety net?
Why do you think I need DSC? I will never own one.

My point is: You all are talking on here as if driving the AWD in RWD mode is the same as a true RWD car. It's not. Others will make assumptions about this. If you have AWD and drive in RWD all the time don't own it past the end of warranty. I'm sure it's a hoot. Pick your preference. AWD in this setup will not always be better, as others astutely noted.
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      11-23-2021, 10:37 AM   #81
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My point is: You all are talking on here as if driving the AWD in RWD mode is the same as a true RWD car. It's not. Others will make assumptions about this. If you have AWD and drive in RWD all the time don't own it past the end of warranty. I'm sure it's a hoot. Pick your preference. AWD in this setup will not always be better, as others astutely noted.
That depends on your definition of RWD. Do you mean a vehicle without DSC is not RWD? That doesn't make any sense. As for your warranty comment, this system has been available since 2017 on the M5, there's been no known issues of driving the vehicle in 2WD mode. If there was BMW would likely not even provide the setting in the M3. In any case the 4wd sport mode is pretty much rwd anyway. Seems like you are commenting without any factual knowledge.

This discussion is a moot point, i doubt anyone will even drive regularly in 2WD mode unless they are drifting. AWD is faster.
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      11-23-2021, 06:22 PM   #82
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Why do you think I need DSC? I will never own one.
You're the one who pointed out that M xDrive RWD doesn't support DSC, as though that matters.

You haven't been able to articulate why M xDrive RWD mode, which disconnects the front and sends 100% power to the rear axle, is any different from "true" RWD (beyond the 3% weight penalty).
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      11-24-2021, 01:07 AM   #83
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Quote:
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Why do you think I need DSC? I will never own one.
You're the one who pointed out that M xDrive RWD doesn't support DSC, as though that matters.

You haven't been able to articulate why M xDrive RWD mode, which disconnects the front and sends 100% power to the rear axle, is any different from "true" RWD (beyond the 3% weight penalty).
I was answering a question I had above (previous page) about DSC possible with the wet clutch transfer box, because that would have been an engineering step, or at least a break from BMWs first 2 wet clutch systems. Not because I care about DSC in particular, but how they got around it. They didn't. Instead charging $500 to use the equipment already on the car to it's fullest…coding interest let's just say, not playing insecurities.

Second point "Because math." It's not the weight of the bullet that kills, it's the velocity. Same reason the AWD gets beat by the RWD from a roll…except it is the weight.
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      11-24-2021, 01:21 AM   #84
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Quote:
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Second point "Because math." It's not the weight of the bullet that kills, it's the velocity. Same reason the AWD gets beat by the RWD from a roll…except it is the weight.
Source? I guess if the roll race is happening at 140 mph. But in videos I’ve seen, the RWD never reduces the gap with AWD until in the 140 mph range.
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      11-29-2021, 05:56 PM   #85
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I drive on a wet race track just about as much as I skateboard in the rain; so never. But I would buy the 4 door xdrive manual and full cage with 4 buckets
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