[sleeprequired]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Not a fan of how it looks in these pics. Very angular and over the top.

Yeah the M3 was the original sleeper ‘family sedan’. Obviously they’ve decided their market is younger drivers now who want overt styling.

I was worried about those grilles, but honestly I’m ok with them. What I absolutely cannot forgive is that sunken BMW badge on the front. My eyes are drawn to it, it’s horrible, and I cannot unsee it.

It’s a pass for me, keeping my tuned M3 until they get their heads right again. On the upshot, I’ll have a classic I reckon.

[av.7447]

Originally Posted by sleeprequired

Yeah the M3 was the original sleeper ‘family sedan’. Obviously they’ve decided their market is younger drivers now who want overt styling.

I was worried about those grilles, but honestly I’m ok with them. What I absolutely cannot forgive is that sunken BMW badge on the front. My eyes are drawn to it, it’s horrible, and I cannot unsee it.

It’s a pass for me, keeping my tuned M3 until they get their heads right again. On the upshot, I’ll have a classic I reckon.

So it’s the bmw badge on the hood of the new G80 which is making you pass on the car with what appears to be the greatest I6 engine BMW has ever made... Got it!

[yuKon22]

Originally Posted by sharocks

SPY looks like a highlighter exploded on the design desk and they just went with it. Just like how they greenlit these kidney grills in the dark at 3 AM in a cave.

Pretty close to the acid green decals on the Porsche E-Hybrid....I reckon we'll see a few on the road...

[sleeprequired]

Originally Posted by av.7447

So it’s the bmw badge on the hood of the new G80 which is making you pass on the car with what appears to be the greatest I6 engine BMW has ever made... Got it!

Yep. Design is important, so are motors. It’s the whole package. When you buy a car like this you gotta like the whole package.

I have the current M3 amd love the way it looks, it’s tuned and sale power and torque. Got the GTS clutch and diff, MDM settings. It’s pretty much perfect.

Looks good too. I just can’t get around the dent in the bonnet. It’s not a choice my eyes are drawn to it in a bad way. Can’t help it.

It is what it is.

[VetteGuy]

Originally Posted by sleeprequired

Yeah the M3 was the original sleeper ‘family sedan’. Obviously they’ve decided their market is younger drivers now who want overt styling.

I was worried about those grilles, but honestly I’m ok with them. What I absolutely cannot forgive is that sunken BMW badge on the front. My eyes are drawn to it, it’s horrible, and I cannot unsee it.

It’s a pass for me, keeping my tuned M3 until they get their heads right again. On the upshot, I’ll have a classic I reckon.

The minutia people find to bitch about amazes me. Yeah, pass over an emblem because it doesn’t measure up to the one I’m used to. Good plan.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Correct, all previous M3s and M5s competed in different segments, not just price but dimensions and weight. The M3 used to be the one you would take to the track and perform daily duties as it was relatively light weight, while the M5 would be the autobahn cruiser as it was heavier and didn't have the flairs the 3 did.
Let's look at it by generation
E30 weight: 2,568–2,998 lb E28 M5: 3,109
E36 weight: 3,340 (the LW was 3,140) E34 M5: 3,847
E46 weight: 3,461 E39 M5: 3,957
E90 weight: 3,483 F10 M5: 4,387
F80 weight: 3,540 F90 M5: 4,370
G80 weight: 3,9XX to 4,3XX

Again, there has always been a difference in size and weight between the two cars. Now there isn't. That sucks. Now both cars weigh the same but the M5 has a ton more power. Instead of buying a smaller more versatile car, you're now forced to buy a discount M5 that looks odd from most angles. Same size, way less power.

No...I get it, and I appreciate the detailed response, but THINK about what you're saying:

Other than the way it looks (one of the most important factors in buying a car) and the price (arguably the most important thing for most car buyers or we would all driver Lambos), why would anyone choose the M3/M4 over an M5.....

If that isn't enough, how about a manual transmission?

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by sleeprequired

Yeah the M3 was the original sleeper ‘family sedan’. Obviously they’ve decided their market is younger drivers now who want overt styling.

I was worried about those grilles, but honestly I’m ok with them. What I absolutely cannot forgive is that sunken BMW badge on the front. My eyes are drawn to it, it’s horrible, and I cannot unsee it.

It’s a pass for me, keeping my tuned M3 until they get their heads right again. On the upshot, I’ll have a classic I reckon.

The M3 was the original sleeper "coupe." Only recently became the sedan in the e9x and f80 variants. I think more differentiated outward aesthetics became completely necessary once they started putting M bades on the 340 and the 440.

I'm not, by nature, a low key kinda guy. I'm all for these aggressive changes.

They are largely marketing to the same people, many of whom spent small fortunes on aftermarket parts over the last 2 generations. They'll likely pull in some AMG consumers as well.

[f80er]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

If that isn't enough, how about a manual transmission?

Sure but a watered down one. BMWs way of putting the blame on the consumer to phase out manual Ms altogether.

"No one bought them so no need to produce them!"

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by f80er

Sure but a watered down one. BMWs way of putting the blame on the consumer to phase out manual Ms altogether.

"No one bought them so no need to produce them!"

Do you own an F80 6MT? It was one of my favorite manuals to drive. This one will be better because you can disengage rev matching on all throttle maps (as opposed to my F80 6MT which I had to drive in Sport+ to keep rev matching disengaged).

[f80er]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Do you own an F80 6MT? It was one of my favorite manuals to drive. This one will be better because you can disengage rev matching on all throttle maps (as opposed to my F80 6MT which I had to drive in Sport+ to keep rev matching disengaged).

Yes...in fact this is my second MT F80 and if the CS came in a manual it would have been my 3rd F80.

Not sure what point you are trying to make though? I say that because a manual G80 to an AT G80 comp is simply not apples to apples based solely on the fact on the different performance numbers.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by f80er

Yes...in fact this is my second MT F80 and if the CS came in a manual it would have been my 3rd F80.

Not sure what point you are trying to make though? I say that because a manual G80 to an AT G80 comp is simply not apples to apples based solely on the fact on the different performance numbers.

Oh, I thought you meant the actual transmission is watered down. Don't think any of us should be complaining about 30 HP and a chrome badge if we get to drive a manual in 2020...that's just me. I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak.

I would obviously prefer to have the option of the competition package AND a manual...but given that the take rate on the manual was so low, the fact that they kept it on the G8x is nothing short of a godsend.

FYI, my dealer has 8 orders in for manuals and 1 in for competitions as of now. Who knows what could happen.

As an aside, I hate my CS...I hate it because it's not 6MT. Can't wait to get rid of it.

[Avaley]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Oh, I thought you meant the actual transmission is watered down. Don't think any of us should be complaining about 30 HP and a chrome badge if we get to drive a manual in 2020...that's just me. I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak.

I would obviously prefer to have the option of the competition package AND a manual...but given that the take rate on the manual was so low, the fact that they kept it on the G8x is nothing short of a godsend.

FYI, my dealer has 8 orders in for manuals and 1 in for competitions as of now. Who knows what could happen.

As an aside, I hate my CS...I hate it because it's not 6MT. Can't wait to get rid of it.

Its a product delineation and gross profit optimization strategy - thanks for those dealer order stats! awesome to hear.

I would also say give the ZF M8HP76 the benefit of the doubt until reviewers test it but would also prefer 6MT across all models but unfortunately $ matters.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

No...I get it, and I appreciate the detailed response, but THINK about what you're saying:

Other than the way it looks (one of the most important factors in buying a car) and the price (arguably the most important thing for most car buyers or we would all driver Lambos), why would anyone choose the M3/M4 over an M5.....

If that isn't enough, how about a manual transmission?

I'm just upset that the ethos for the car has changed so drastically in one generation.
Yes, i'm all about the manual transmission. My F80 was manual and my M2C is a 6 speed. So unless i'm buying a pickup or SUV, i'm buying the manual if available or i'm just not buying the car.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I'm just upset that the ethos for the car has changed so drastically in one generation.
Yes, i'm all about the manual transmission. My F80 was manual and my M2C is a 6 speed. So unless i'm buying a pickup or SUV, i'm buying the manual if available or i'm just not buying the car.

RESPECT.

Other than weight, not a lot has changed though, not to a manual driver.

[ChrisM4]

The yellow car looks a little strange by the hood and headlights, gives the impression there's a big gap or the hood isn't fully closed. It's an illusion but looks odd to me.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I'm just upset that the ethos for the car has changed so drastically in one generation.
Yes, i'm all about the manual transmission. My F80 was manual and my M2C is a 6 speed. So unless i'm buying a pickup or SUV, i'm buying the manual if available or i'm just not buying the car.

Also, they dont NEED to make the M3/M4 for the "purist" anymore. They have the M2C and future G87 M2 for that.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

The M3 was the original sleeper "coupe." Only recently became the sedan in the e9x and f80 variants. I think more differentiated outward aesthetics became completely necessary once they started putting M bades on the 340 and the 440.

I'm not, by nature, a low key kinda guy. I'm all for these aggressive changes.

They are largely marketing to the same people, many of whom spent small fortunes on aftermarket parts over the last 2 generations. They'll likely pull in some AMG consumers as well.

The only two generations of M3 not to offer a sedan was the E30 and E46... So 4 of 6 generations M3 was both sedan and coupe, starting with the second generation E36,

So not quite as recent as the E90... 😉

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The only two generations of M3 not to offer a sedan was the E30 and E46... So 4 of 6 generations M3 was both sedan and coupe, starting with the second generation E36,

So not quite as recent as the E90... 😉

I stand corrected. Little before my time as a licensed driver, but I should know my history better.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Correct, all previous M3s and M5s competed in different segments, not just price but dimensions and weight. The M3 used to be the one you would take to the track and perform daily duties as it was relatively light weight, while the M5 would be the autobahn cruiser as it was heavier and didn't have the flairs the 3 did.
Let's look at it by generation
E30 weight: 2,568–2,998 lb E28 M5: 3,109
E36 weight: 3,340 (the LW was 3,140) E34 M5: 3,847
E46 weight: 3,461 E39 M5: 3,957
E90 weight: 3,483 F10 M5: 4,387
F80 weight: 3,540 F90 M5: 4,370
G80 weight: 3,9XX to 4,3XX

Again, there has always been a difference in size and weight between the two cars. Now there isn't. That sucks. Now both cars weigh the same but the M5 has a ton more power. Instead of buying a smaller more versatile car, you're now forced to buy a discount M5 that looks odd from most angles. Same size, way less power.

You got the last three generations mixed up on which M5 you compared with. You also listed the G80 from 3,9xx to 4,3xx, but the official spec is 3930-3980lb

E90 M3 - E60 M5 (not F10 M5)
F80 M3 - F10 M5 (not F90 M5)
G80 M3 - F90 M5


E90 weight: 3,629 E60 M5: 4,090
F80 weight: 3,351-3,653 F10 M5: 4,387
G80 weight: 3,930 to 3,980 F90 M5: 4,370

E90 vs E60 was 461lb difference
G80 vs F90 is 390-440lb difference

I also wish that the lightweight philosophy of the F80 could have carried over. But it's quite similar to the E90 vs E60 difference at least.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

RESPECT.

Other than weight, not a lot has changed though, not to a manual driver.

Well, it now has a automatic transmission instead of a DCT. It comes with an AWD option. It's 5 inches longer (184 in the F80 and 189 in the G80, for reference, the F10 M5 was 193 inches). I think BMW is shifting the 3 series into 5 series territory and the 2 series into what the old 3 series was.
I'm def going to reserve my judgement until I see one in real life. It's always hard to get proportions right in pictures. Hell, I think the M2 looked really odd in pictures when I first saw it but in real life it looks amazing.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Well, it now has a automatic transmission instead of a DCT. It comes with an AWD option. It's 5 inches longer (184 in the F80 and 189 in the G80, for reference, the F10 M5 was 193 inches). I think BMW is shifting the 3 series into 5 series territory and the 2 series into what the old 3 series was.
I'm def going to reserve my judgement until I see one in real life. It's always hard to get proportions right in pictures. Hell, I think the M2 looked really odd in pictures when I first saw it but in real life it looks amazing.

Like I said, for a 6MT driver, not much has changed other than the weight. I'm not concerned about 5."

The car is sportier in it's tech and approach than any other car in the segment. Just the f**king weight gain is huge negative.

[f80er]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Like I said, for a 6MT driver, not much has changed other than the weight. I'm not concerned about 5."

The car is sportier in it's tech and approach than any other car in the segment. Just the f**king weight gain is huge negative.

It has changed though, just like @Bumpinjeep said along being slower than its AT counterpart and will never be available in AWD. Imagine if they did that with the F8X generation it would have sucked big time.