If electric vehicles are the future, what about those in apartments?

Alfisti · 02-05-2022, 03:11 PM

The whole issue though is we are being told it will NOT be gradual, it will be a boom and bang the ICE is gone.

tranquility · 02-05-2022, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The whole issue though is we are being told it will NOT be gradual, it will be a boom and bang the ICE is gone.

Whoever thought/said that is not being realistic and it would be foolish to believe everything that the govt(s) said. There is no other (realistic/practical) way other than gradual.

M3WC · 02-05-2022, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

Whoever thought/said that is not being realistic and it would be foolish to believe everything that the govt(s) said. There is no other (realistic/practical) way other than gradual.

Tell that to the brands that have stated they will be all electric by 2030. Benz, Cadillac, Bentley, Volvo, Jaguar, Mini, Lotus, Fiat...probably missed a couple.

tranquility · 02-05-2022, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3WC

Tell that to the brands that have stated they will be all electric by 2030. Benz, Cadillac, Bentley, Volvo, Jaguar, Mini, Lotus, Fiat...probably missed a couple.

We'll see.

EDIT: actually, looking at this, where are all the big players, i.e. rest of GM, Toyota, VW, BMW, etc? Above doesn't seem like a big chunk of total vehicle production.

XutvJet · 02-05-2022, 06:20 PM

OP here. A lot of excellent points have been made since my first post. I am actually a owner of Tesla stock, largely because, love him or hate him, Elon Musk is a visionary, has balls, and has a "Who says we can't do that?" attitude. I totally respect that even if I don't own one of his cars or agree with everything he says.

My question about apartments does largely stem from the fact that government and the auto industry are forcing people to get EVs. People in government that want an EV only world are idealistic and have not a clue what it's really going to take. The auto industry wants an EV fleet because there are fewer parts AND they'll have way more control over car. Everything becomes easier and more lucrative for them. Also, cars, suvs, and trucks will become like RC cars. Meaning they'll have a few basic chassis' and then they'll offer a multitude of motor, battery, and exterior options. It will be easier and cheaper to make "newer" cars for them.

It's going to take nearly dead to full charging to get down to around 3 minutes for non'-home charging facilities to make EVs viable for the masses that don't have home charging options. Everything I've read says we're about 15 years from that, likely longer.

ICE aren't going to die anytime soon either. Heavy trucks, earth work machiney, boats, and aircraft will be ICE for decades.

Like others noted, the future really should be a combination of a numbers of more efficent options, not just all EVs.

Finally, I have no doubt that I'll have an EV at some point, but I'll also have ICE vehicle too.

RM7 · 02-05-2022, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The whole issue though is we are being told it will NOT be gradual, it will be a boom and bang the ICE is gone.

Who told you that? And don't quote some mandate when there will be plenty of ICE cars still on the road and gas stations...

RM7 · 02-05-2022, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XutvJet

My question about apartments does largely stem from the fact that government and the auto industry are forcing people to get EVs.

How many EVs were you forced to get?

M3WC · 02-06-2022, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

We'll see.

EDIT: actually, looking at this, where are all the big players, i.e. rest of GM, Toyota, VW, BMW, etc? Above doesn't seem like a big chunk of total vehicle production.

Mercedes Benz is a big player. They battle for the luxury crown every year with BMW. I still don't believe it, but they announced all electric by 2030. In less than 8 years you will walk into a Benz showroom and there won't be a single new ICE Mercedes for sale. Call me skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Cos270 · 02-06-2022, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3WC

The OP's question is fear mongering?

Have you been to New York or any major US city. A lot of parking is done on the street or even worse rented parking spots blocks from apartment. Where do those people charge their EV's. It is a serious question that isn't fear mongering, get over yourself. You enjoying the honking?

I don't get this part, because nobody is forcing them to get an EV. It's kinda like if I love the new Bronco but my garage can only fit a Prius, should I blame myself or the infrastructure/etc? Ppl need to think things through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3WC

The OP's question is fear mongering?

Have you been to New York or any major US city. A lot of parking is done on the street or even worse rented parking spots blocks from apartment. Where do those people charge their EV's. It is a serious question that isn't fear mongering, get over yourself. You enjoying the honking?

I don't get this part, because nobody is forcing them to get an EV. It's kinda like if I love the new Bronco but my garage can only fit a Prius, should I blame myself or the infrastructure/etc? Ppl need to think things through.

Nobody is forcing them yet…

wtwo3 · 02-06-2022, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3WC

Mercedes Benz is a big player. They battle for the luxury crown every year with BMW. I still don't believe it, but they announced all electric by 2030. In less than 8 years you will walk into a Benz showroom and there won't be a single new ICE Mercedes for sale. Call me skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see it.

The way they're trending... I wouldn't be terribly surprised. They already destroyed any desire I may have had to consider a C63 by dropping a 4 banger hybrid into it.

RM7 · 02-06-2022, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtwo3

The way they're trending... I wouldn't be terribly surprised. They already destroyed any desire I may have had to consider a C63 by dropping a 4 banger hybrid into it.

That is flat out not forcing you to buy an EV.

tranquility · 02-06-2022, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3WC

Mercedes Benz is a big player. They battle for the luxury crown every year with BMW. I still don't believe it, but they announced all electric by 2030. In less than 8 years you will walk into a Benz showroom and there won't be a single new ICE Mercedes for sale. Call me skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see it.

For sure MB is big, but just looking overall at the group you cited vs the noticeable other big players not included. Anyway, gonna be an exciting time seeing how this all pans out.

wtwo3 · 02-06-2022, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RM7

That is flat out not forcing you to buy an EV.

I plan to hold on to ICE cars as long as possible... at least for myself. I see ICE cars going the way of manual. Not completely dying off, but slowly being offered in fewer and fewer options. So you're not really "forced" to get an EV, you just won't have as many ICE options in the future.

Wouldn't mind an EV in SUV form as a family hauler... where I prioritize luxury and comfort over fun.

shawnhayes · 02-06-2022, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I plan to hold on to ICE cars as long as possible... at least for myself. I see ICE cars going the way of manual. Not completely dying off, but slowly being offered in fewer and fewer options. So you're not really "forced" to get an EV, you just won't have as many ICE options in the future.

Wouldn't mind an EV in SUV form as a family hauler... where I prioritize luxury and comfort over fun.

This is the way....

The ICE will continue to exist, for the poor, disadvantaged, and the ones who just want to keep one. But, let's be honest, the vast majority of people cars are just toasters. A thing. A thing to use for a purpose, and then to dispose of when it no longer suits - either from wear or disservice.

Plenty of electric cars now have greater electric range than many completely serviceable gasoline cars. 300kw charging is PERFECTLY adequate to recharge long distance cars, and are now much more common. Heck, if you're conscientious, 50kw is just fine. It takes a little while, sure at 50kw, but 2% PER MINUTE of 150 miles is pretty damn fast. And that's the cheap chargers. Take a bathroom break where they are. More and more of them are being used as attractions to high end customers to locations. They can basically be installed ANYWHERE, and require no attendants, little to no maintenance, and are pretty easy to use.

The market will sort out these difficulties slowly.

My vision is ALL kinds of power sources will dominate the roads for the near future. ICE, electric, compressed natural gas, hydrogen, etc. All are possible. No ONE technology will take over completely. Just like powertrains and cars. The death of the convertible was recanted. The death of the V8 was predicted. AWD cars have not completely overrun the market. FWD and RWD are still around. Nothing is absolute.

Shawn

tranquility · 02-06-2022, 09:08 PM

Another thing is according to you guys, some brands will only sell EVs by 2030, but let's just assume for the moment ALL makers will do that. So, they sell their last ICEs by 2029/30, surely they won't cut off the gas supply right then, right, so what's the life of an ICE, could be upwards of 20 years and beyond if stretching it. So during that period gas would still be available, maybe at a premium as they are phasing out, but still there or else there's gonna be riots lol. This is w the imaginary scenario of ALL makers no longer making ICEs but there still are a lot that have not stated they will be a 100% EV lineup. Gonna take a long while before ICEs are really done.

Alfisti · 02-07-2022, 08:25 AM

That's the crux of the thread though, in some countries we are told that dec 31, 2029 is last day to sell an ICE vehicle. THis is the whole thread, we all here seem to be saying that seems highly unlikely so not sure why we are arguing. Once you move the dates past 2030 to 2035 and look 15, 20 years ahead, anything is possible. The entire argument is the mandated dates seem VERY tight.

Cos270 · 02-07-2022, 08:28 AM

The way I see it, as soon as Porsche goes all electric (that means no hybrids), we might as well hang it up.

kyriian · 02-07-2022, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The entire argument is the mandated dates seem VERY tight.

The people doing the mandating will shift the goal post when it suits their needs, let's face it, it buys the green vote with 'aggressive' goals, and shift it when they are in power.

Some countries maybe able to pull it off where EV infrastructures is actually valid, and people don't need a car to travel around, most definitely not North America.

Car makers make cars globally, gas cars is not going anywhere for generations for many poorer countries where there just isn't infrastructure, hell I have a hard time seeing gas cars being prohibited in many first world countries for decades ahead.

MightyMouseTech · 02-07-2022, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3WC

The OP's question is fear mongering?

Have you been to New York or any major US city. A lot of parking is done on the street or even worse rented parking spots blocks from apartment. Where do those people charge their EV's. It is a serious question that isn't fear mongering, get over yourself. You enjoying the honking?

The same way people fill up their cars with gas right now.

jmg · 02-08-2022, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nerdogray

No one is past the feel-good self-righteousness of saving the planet to have thought that far ahead yet. If you've ever seen the EV episode of Southpark, there you go.

All important issues are addressed and solved on South Park.

M3WC · 02-08-2022, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

The same way people fill up their cars with gas right now.

The "same way"...sure got it.

02-05-2022, 03:11 PM	#45
Alfisti Brigadier General 6503 Rep 3,032 Posts Drives: 2008 Saab 9-3 Combi Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0)	The whole issue though is we are being told it will NOT be gradual, it will be a boom and bang the ICE is gone.
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02-05-2022, 06:20 PM	#49
XutvJet Major General 5556 Rep 5,372 Posts Drives: 2011 Cayman Base, 2016 M235 Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Kansas City iTrader: (-1)	OP here. A lot of excellent points have been made since my first post. I am actually a owner of Tesla stock, largely because, love him or hate him, Elon Musk is a visionary, has balls, and has a "Who says we can't do that?" attitude. I totally respect that even if I don't own one of his cars or agree with everything he says. My question about apartments does largely stem from the fact that government and the auto industry are forcing people to get EVs. People in government that want an EV only world are idealistic and have not a clue what it's really going to take. The auto industry wants an EV fleet because there are fewer parts AND they'll have way more control over car. Everything becomes easier and more lucrative for them. Also, cars, suvs, and trucks will become like RC cars. Meaning they'll have a few basic chassis' and then they'll offer a multitude of motor, battery, and exterior options. It will be easier and cheaper to make "newer" cars for them. It's going to take nearly dead to full charging to get down to around 3 minutes for non'-home charging facilities to make EVs viable for the masses that don't have home charging options. Everything I've read says we're about 15 years from that, likely longer. ICE aren't going to die anytime soon either. Heavy trucks, earth work machiney, boats, and aircraft will be ICE for decades. Like others noted, the future really should be a combination of a numbers of more efficent options, not just all EVs. Finally, I have no doubt that I'll have an EV at some point, but I'll also have ICE vehicle too.
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02-06-2022, 09:08 PM	#59
tranquility sportscars only 3250 Rep 3,199 Posts Drives: 2011 Z4 sDrive 35i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Montréal iTrader: (0)	Another thing is according to you guys, some brands will only sell EVs by 2030, but let's just assume for the moment ALL makers will do that. So, they sell their last ICEs by 2029/30, surely they won't cut off the gas supply right then, right, so what's the life of an ICE, could be upwards of 20 years and beyond if stretching it. So during that period gas would still be available, maybe at a premium as they are phasing out, but still there or else there's gonna be riots lol. This is w the imaginary scenario of ALL makers no longer making ICEs but there still are a lot that have not stated they will be a 100% EV lineup. Gonna take a long while before ICEs are really done. __________________ The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation...It's bullsh*t. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal...Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy?
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02-07-2022, 08:25 AM	#60
Alfisti Brigadier General 6503 Rep 3,032 Posts Drives: 2008 Saab 9-3 Combi Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0)	That's the crux of the thread though, in some countries we are told that dec 31, 2029 is last day to sell an ICE vehicle. THis is the whole thread, we all here seem to be saying that seems highly unlikely so not sure why we are arguing. Once you move the dates past 2030 to 2035 and look 15, 20 years ahead, anything is possible. The entire argument is the mandated dates seem VERY tight.
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02-07-2022, 08:28 AM	#61
Cos270 First Lieutenant 609 Rep 372 Posts Drives: 2015 M235i Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: MI iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 F22 M235i [0.00]	The way I see it, as soon as Porsche goes all electric (that means no hybrids), we might as well hang it up.
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