[jmg]

Originally Posted by Hotflare

I love how people are buying into this car wanting it to be a full blown race car

Its not..m its a high performance sedan...

Want a racecar? Buy an M2C or even a porche with the money. This is designed to be an all rounder that you can track day in and take it to work the next. Sooner people see that, the sooner we can all focus om something else to hate. Lol...

You just said it's an "all rounder that you can track day in". Yet we can't have a discussion about weight?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

CanAutM3’s fantastic coming P-car is 3650 lbs. will it be a downgrade from his lighter CS? Doubt it. And for us to sit and dissect why it isn’t lighter and how detrimental it is vs the dynamics of a base C2 etc. Is it a worth while discussion if driving it turn out to be the best thing he has done on four wheels?

I have seen a few 992TT-S weigh in well below 3,600lb when properly specced. I've specced mine in a weight conscious manner with CF roof and skipping heavier comfort oriented options such as PDCC and front axle lift. I am hoping my 992TT won't be too far off the ~3,550lb of my M4cs. So it comes with a lot more go-fast goodies for not much weight penalty over my M4cs. And yes, the ~200lb weight penalty was an important consideration when I was debating between the C2 and TT.

Originally Posted by solstice

It applies as to the weight anxiety and negative sentiment to weight increase of a car of similar weight. Why obsess about it to the level of deciding against the car before you have driven it? And why ignore reports that the car feel great, both lighter and faster than the predecessor and continue the obsessing? We aren’t doing it about CanAutM3’s Porsche when it comes up. He isn’t concerned about it enough to stop a $160k purchase why is the G8X such a target for following the same trend of other brands and since the beginning of M with ever larger cars?

If the car drives like crap it’s open season to look for reasons but if it’s fantastic, why do it?

You make it sound like weight is my only selection criteria. Or that I believe that the G8X will drive like crap because it weighs a few lbs more. Things are not that binary in this world. Things are not black or white, it's a scale of greys. As I have stated multiple times, it is the combination of shifts on several elements that are important to me that had me skip the G8X. Weight is only one of them.

I have never been able to test drive a car prior purchase in the environment that matters most to me: on track. So I do have to rely on paper specs to make my decisions. The E46, E92, F82 and F82cs were all good enough on paper for me to chance it and get one. I am not willing to do so with the G8X, the specs on paper are not sufficiently to my liking to do so. It does not mean I think it is a bad car. Again, not black or white.

For sure, I would prefer a 400lb lighter GT3 for the track, but it is too compromised for my DD needs. So with the TT, I am buying GT3 speed with more DD practicality at the expense of some driving engagement. I am perfectly aware of the tradeoff I am making. In the end, it always is about some sort of tradeoff in the vast scale of greys.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by jmg

The title of this thread is "Weight of G80 M3 Competition w/ auto and standard seats = 3767 lbs". So I'm here to talk about weight. Track times are a different story. Again, you aren't willing to understand that a lighter G80 is going to perform better than a heavier G80 all other things being equal. I'm not sure why you want to ignore physics.

I reserve the right to change my mind once more track times are set. I also still have a free M School voucher so hopefully I'll be able to track a G80 on BMW's dime and tires.

For now though, it's too heavy and my goal with my next weekend/track toy was to go lighter.

One advantage I have is that I didn't order a G80 and my choices are open to other cars and brands, so I don't HAVE TO love the G80 to justify my decision. I've had multiple M cars, so I don't have to get this one. The M2 is still a consideration, but so is a Zupra, GT4, F82, E46, 718 GTS, etc... At least I can be honest to myself.

This is kind of a chicken and egg debate as some of the weight that was added really sharpened the car and will likely improve the track driving. I haven't read the whole thread but I think we get intro trouble when people say things like 'its a failure because it doesn't do this' or 'it's better than an F8x cuz it does this'. like you said people look for different things in cars and you definitely should consider options. Things tend to be conveyed as objective truths on this board that are really just personal preferences lol. 718 gts sounds like it's better suited to what you're looking for although the 4 cylinder engine noise doesn't sound great to some I was looking into picking up one of those used but it started getting close to new m3 price anyway and it made more sense to me to get one car that does everything

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Hotflare

I love how people are buying into this car wanting it to be a full blown race car

Its not..m its a high performance sedan...

Want a racecar? Buy an M2C or even a porche with the money. This is designed to be an all rounder that you can track day in and take it to work the next. Sooner people see that, the sooner we can all focus om something else to hate. Lol...

LOL, the M2 is no more "racecar" than the M3/4 is.

But you are not wrong with the fact that the M2 is more in the old M3 niche while the M3/4 is now more in the old M5/6 niche.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by jkap27

This is kind of a chicken and egg debate as some of the weight that was added really sharpened the car and will likely improve the track driving. I haven't read the whole thread but I think we get intro trouble when people say things like 'its a failure because it doesn't do this' or 'it's better than an F8x cuz it does this'. like you said people look for different things in cars and you definitely should consider options. Things tend to be conveyed as objective truths on this board that are really just personal preferences lol. 718 gts sounds like it's better suited to what you're looking for although the 4 cylinder engine noise doesn't sound great to some I was looking into picking up one of those used but it started getting close to new m3 price anyway and it made more sense to me to get one car that does everything

If you can add something to the G80 to overcome it's weight, you can also do it to a G80 that doesn't have the weight problem and you will end up with a better driving car. Basically, keep those modifications but start with a smaller, lighter car. It's what I've been saying all day in this thread. Maybe I'm not being clear enough.

The 718 GTS is no longer a 4 cylinder. I'm was talking about the new GTS 4.0 which is a flat 6.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have seen a few 992TT-S weigh in well below 3,600lb when properly specced. I've specced mine in a weight conscious manner with CF roof and skipping heavier comfort oriented options such as PDCC and front axle lift. I am hoping my 992TT won't be too far off the ~3,550lb of my M4cs. So it comes with a lot more go-fast goodies for not much weight penalty over my M4cs. And yes, the ~200lb weight penalty was an important consideration when I was debating between the C2 and TT.


You make it sound like weight is my only selection criteria. Or that I believe that the G8X will drive like crap because it weighs a few lbs more. Things are not that binary in this world. Things are not black or white, it's a scale of greys. As I have stated multiple times, it is the combination of shifts on several elements that are important to me that had me skip the G8X. Weight is only one of them.

I have never been able to test drive a car prior purchase in the environment that matters most to me: on track. So I do have to rely on paper specs to make my decisions. The E46, E92, F82 and F82cs were all good enough on paper for me to chance it and get one. I am not willing to do so with the G8X, the specs on paper are not sufficiently to my liking to do so. It does not mean I think it is a bad car. Again, not black or white.

For sure, I would prefer a 400lb lighter GT3 for the track, but it is too compromised for my DD needs. So with the TT, I am buying GT3 speed at the expense of some driving engagement. I am perfectly aware of the tradeoff I am making. In the end, it always is about some sort of tradeoff is the vast scale of greys.

I for one can’t wait to hear your review of it, maybe better in the F8X forums vs section I firmly believe that even being one of the heaviest most complicated 911s and least pure it will blow you away The overall package count more than details.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by jmg

If you can add something to the G80 to overcome it's weight, you can also do it to a G80 that doesn't have the weight problem and you will end up with a better driving car. Basically, keep those modifications but start with a smaller, lighter car. It's what I've been saying all day in this thread. Maybe I'm not being clear enough.

The 718 GTS is no longer a 4 cylinder. I'm was talking about the new GTS 4.0 which is a flat 6.

Ah right right that could be the move didn't know that released yet...im assuming it's naturally aspirated and should be a high rev screamer like the older caymans. Totally get what you're saying I think a lot of decisions are made to minimize cost though which is why they will undoubtedly release a lighter weight more expensive version of the g80 down the road 😁 I'm sure the ever expanding list of mandatory safety features isn't helping either lol

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

I for one can’t wait to hear your review of it, maybe better in the F8X forums vs section I firmly believe that even being one of the heaviest most complicated 911s and least pure it will blow you away

I've read very little negative about the 992TT so far, so it is promising. I'll definitely share my impressions on "the other side" of the forum . I am still quite attached to this community, Rennlist is not quite as engaging.

Originally Posted by solstice

The overall package count more than details.

For me, it is the sum of the details that makes the overall package, how all the individual details work in unison to form a greater whole. I had the exact same argument about the M4cs .

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I've read very little negative about the 992TT so far, so it is promising. I'll definitely share my impressions on "the other side" of the forum . I am still quite attached to this community, Rennlist is not quite as engaging.

For me, it is the sum of the details that makes the overall package, how all the individual details work in unison to form a greater whole. I had the exact same argument about the M4cs .

Nothing but excellence from the 992 Turbo S and the 992 in general. Easily for me the best combo of a daily and a track weapon that has a lot more 991.2 GT3 in it, and the last one was one of the best driver’s car to boot. I think your last statement holds true and there is where the 911 and the Porsche cars are worth it. Absolutely the most cohesive package on the market from tip to tail.

[j23]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Not only this, it is also 2000 lbs heavier than Ford Model T. BMW is a joke

Nice try at sarcasm, pal. You still failed.

There's a 100+ year gap between the Model T. There's only an 18 year gap between this M3 and the one mentioned.

/owned

[cbertels]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

Yeah, let's ignore the fact that BMW got rid of 2 Cylinders going from e90 to F80.

And added two turbos and necessary hardware to operate them and miles of wiring for the added tech, etc.

Instead of making excuses for BMW going backwards you should be asking why not make better use of aluminum or carbon.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by j23

Nice try at sarcasm, pal. You still failed.

There's a 100+ year gap between the Model T. There's only an 18 year gap between this M3 and the one mentioned.

/owned

My dude, the modern four door M3 has close to nothing to do with that special edition CSL from 2004. CSL was basically a stripped fiberglass race car on M3 basis, without sound insulation, AC, navigation and electric seats. And with lightweight BBS wheels. And much more.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I've read very little negative about the 992TT so far, so it is promising. I'll definitely share my impressions on "the other side" of the forum . I am still quite attached to this community, Rennlist is not quite as engaging..

Then at least the G8X and the TT has something in common that very little negative is written about it of people who has actually seen and driven it.

Bimmerpost is the best forum once the hate calms down a year or so into a new model and it’s mostly owners and aspiring owners left. Actually the M5 section always have much more pleasant tone to it I noticed. More mature and/or busy folks I guess.

[BimmerFix]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

A bit off topic here, but I believe you hit the nail on the head. The G80 is really the spiritual successor the the E39 M5 in intended purpose. And they made it more powerful, lighter and with way more luxury and tech to boot. It is really a great car from that perspective.

A great car from any perspective ..

It's the new M3/M4 deal with it .

Your posts are comical in this thread. Including the chassis stiffening bit

We get it .. you have an F82. & Your a supposed track god. But no need to defend it ad nauseam in G8X threads. It's getting tiresome

[jmg]

Originally Posted by jkap27

Ah right right that could be the move didn't know that released yet...im assuming it's naturally aspirated and should be a high rev screamer like the older caymans. Totally get what you're saying I think a lot of decisions are made to minimize cost though which is why they will undoubtedly release a lighter weight more expensive version of the g80 down the road 😁 I'm sure the ever expanding list of mandatory safety features isn't helping either lol

No doubt the lighter CS will be a money grab, but it wasn't so successful financially for BMW with the M3/4 CS (good for us who took advantage though). Some items are cost prohibitive, like the titanium MPE, and CF vented hood, but the others are minimal if not comical. (No under glovebox 12v plug? Come on...).

I would be curious to know what safety regulations added weight to the car vs the weight gain from the increase in length and width.

[adc]

Originally Posted by solstice

The front brakes which take the brunt of abuse look to be upgraded to deal with the extra weight and speed. My guess is that wear rate should be similar as your current car (or maybe not since you have a CS but vs the civic F8X) or at least not hugely worse. That is unless you are factors faster in the new car but I’m sure you don’t mind too much paying extra for that

There is no measurable break wear difference on F80 CS vs Civic with standard steel brakes. Weight difference is in the neighborhood of 50lbs between the two I think, maybe less.

[adc]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

My dude, the modern four door M3 has close to nothing to do with that special edition CSL from 2004. CSL was basically a stripped fiberglass race car on M3 basis, without sound insulation, AC, navigation and electric seats. And with lightweight BBS wheels. And much more.

The E46 CSL was not a stripped fiberglass race car. You’ve either got selective memory, or most of your facts wrong.

For the record, the base E46 M3 didn’t have electric seats or navigation.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by cbertels

And added two turbos and necessary hardware to operate them and miles of wiring for the added tech, etc.

Instead of making excuses for BMW going backwards you should be asking why not make better use of aluminum or carbon.

I think to be fair here, in real terms F8X isn't that much lighter, if at all, than E9X. Plenty of E9X guys scale in at ~355X-36XX which is also what F8X scales in at (mine is 3661 with 3/4 fuel, fully loaded, with random things in the trunk). The whole concept of F8X being significantly lighter than E9X was blown up by BMW back in the day as a launch tactic. It's still impressive though that F8X got bigger but didn't gain weight, and does actually come in slightly less on more weight optimized models/configurations.

But yes the reduction of 2 cylinders is a bad example since S55 also requires turbos and auxiliary cooling that isn't present on the V8.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by adc

There is no measurable break wear difference on F80 CS vs Civic with standard steel brakes. Weight difference is in the neighborhood of 50lbs between the two I think, maybe less.

Thanks I wasn’t sure if the CS had beefier more durable steel brakes as part of the CS upgrades.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

I think to be fair here, in real terms F8X isn't that much lighter, if at all, than E9X. Plenty of E9X guys scale in at ~355X-36XX which is also what F8X scales in at (mine is 3661 with 3/4 fuel, fully loaded, with random things in the trunk). The whole concept of F8X being significantly lighter than E9X was blown up by BMW back in the day as a launch tactic. It's still impressive though that F8X got bigger but didn't gain weight, and does actually come in slightly less on more weight optimized models/configurations.

But yes the reduction of 2 cylinders is a bad example since S55 also requires turbos and auxiliary cooling that isn't present on the V8.

Yes, the E9x and F8x were similar. BMW quoted F80 dry weights in early advertisements.

Lightest F8x weighed on forums was a no option manual F80 that weighed 3,450 lbs with 3 gallons of fuel.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by BimmerFix

A great car from any perspective ..

It's the new M3/M4 deal with it .

Your posts are comical in this thread. Including the chassis stiffening bit

We get it .. you have an F82. & Your a supposed track god. But no need to defend it ad nauseam in G8X threads. It's getting tiresome

Don't be salty

[BimmerFix]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Don't be salty

Don't be mad. Newer and better in everything, not just automobiles. And I have an F82 , lmao nice try.