[razman]

I'm all for BMW targeting younger markets to keep their brand relevant. I just question whether "collaborations" (if you can even call it that) like this are the means to do it. Prominently featured on BMW USA's homepage today, the BMW KITH page states, "This is a collaboration born of mutual admiration, authentically BMW and Kith in every way." "Two powerful icons come together to create a compelling limited-edition vehicle: the BMW M4 Competition x Kith."

First, my gut reaction as a potential BMW M3 buyer is nausea. KITH is a brand that's been around a handful of years that sells $2 sweatpants for $300 to dumbasses by employing clever marketing tactics (like this and other partnerships with high end luxury brands) and creating artificial scarcity. In short, its product is hype, nothing else. So when BMW gets into bed with a company like them and says they "admir[e]" KITH and that they're both "power icons," it's equating itself with KITH. This makes me immediately question whether BMW is no different than KITH. Is that what BMW is selling me too? Hype? Are their cars essentially no different than $2 sweatpants dressed up and sold for $300? I realize that a decent chunk of the $80k I was (emphasis on was) planning on shelling out for my first M3 was going towards the brand image. If Toyota was making the M3 it'd probably retail for $50k. That's a $30k premium I'm paying for the BMW brand. But that was something I could live with if at the end of the day, I knew I was getting a car with legendary performance that would put a smile on my face with every downshift. I seriously question that now.

Second, if BMW thinks this collaboration is mutually beneficial, it's crazy. This is a one way street. KITH derives enormous benefit from BMW kissing its ass. Indeed, KITH's very existence hinges on "partnerships" like this with global brands that are highly esteemed. The minute those partnerships stop, it's the death knell for KITH. So what does BMW get in return for this "collaboration"? The hope that a 16 y/o who buys a KITH t-shirt today with a BMW logo on it is going to remember that and purchase a BMW 10-20 years down the road when they can afford one? I'm not going to pretend like I'm some marketing guru because I am not and so maybe there is some chance that sales like that will materialize, but honestly it seems like a real stretch to me. And in the mean time, BMW cheapens its brand to people like me who now start to seriously question what they're really buying when they buy a BMW.

Third, and this in part relates to the second point above, KITH won't be around in 10-20 years. Hell, I'm willing to wager it won't be cool in 5 years. Hype has a very short shelf life. It's only cool until everyone has one, and then it's not. (Just ask Supreme, Anti-social social club, and Cross Colours (remember that one? ironically, they tried making a come back in 2014 apparently).) But "cool" is always off to the next hyped brand. Where does that leave BMW's end of the bargain? Imo, BMW is doing itself no favors by whoring itself out to substance-less brands like KITH that will not be around long enough to pay BMW dividends.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by razman

I'm all for BMW targeting younger markets to keep their brand relevant. I just question whether "collaborations" (if you can even call it that) like this are the means to do it. Prominently featured on BMW USA's homepage today, the BMW KITH page states, "This is a collaboration born of mutual admiration, authentically BMW and Kith in every way." "Two powerful icons come together to create a compelling limited-edition vehicle: the BMW M4 Competition x Kith."

First, my gut reaction as a potential BMW M3 buyer is nausea. KITH is a brand that's been around a handful of years that sells $2 sweatpants for $300 to dumbasses by employing clever marketing tactics (like this and other partnerships with high end luxury brands) and creating artificial scarcity. In short, its product is hype, nothing else. So when BMW gets into bed with a company like them and says they "admir[e]" KITH and that they're both "power icons," it's equating itself with KITH. This makes me immediately question whether BMW is no different than KITH. Is that what BMW is selling me too? Hype? Are their cars essentially no different than $2 sweatpants dressed up and sold for $300? I realize that a decent chunk of the $80k I was (emphasis on was) planning on shelling out for my first M3 was going towards the brand image. If Toyota was making the M3 it'd probably retail for $50k. That's a $30k premium I'm paying for the BMW brand. But that was something I could live with if at the end of the day, I knew I was getting a car with legendary performance that would put a smile on my face with every downshift. I seriously question that now.

Second, if BMW thinks this collaboration is mutually beneficial, it's crazy. This is a one way street. KITH derives enormous benefit from BMW kissing its ass. Indeed, KITH's very existence hinges on "partnerships" like this with global brands that are highly esteemed. The minute those partnerships stop, it's the death knell for KITH. So what does BMW get in return for this "collaboration"? The hope that a 16 y/o who buys a KITH t-shirt today with a BMW logo on it is going to remember that and purchase a BMW 10-20 years down the road when they can afford one? I'm not going to pretend like I'm some marketing guru because I am not and so maybe there is some chance that sales like that will materialize, but honestly it seems like a real stretch to me. And in the mean time, BMW cheapens its brand to people like me who now start to seriously question what they're really buying when they buy a BMW.

Third, and this in part relates to the second point above, KITH won't be around in 10-20 years. Hell, I'm willing to wager it won't be cool in 5 years. Hype has a very short shelf life. It's only cool until everyone has one, and then it's not. (Just ask Supreme, Anti-social social club, and Cross Colours (remember that one? ironically, they tried making a come back in 2014 apparently).) But "cool" is always off to the next hyped brand. Where does that leave BMW's end of the bargain? Imo, BMW is doing itself no favors by whoring itself out to substance-less brands like KITH that will not be around long enough to pay BMW dividends.

Hmmm! Sounds like just about every clothing designer/manufacturer out there.......having clothing produced overseas for pennies on the dollar, but selling them here with a 500% mark-up.

[Avaley]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Hmmm! Sounds like just about every clothing designer/manufacturer out there.......having clothing produced overseas for pennies on the dollar, but selling them here with a 500% mark-up.

tldr, BMW wants to make money and he disagrees with them wanting to make a profit.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by razman

I'm all for BMW targeting younger markets to keep their brand relevant. I just question whether "collaborations" (if you can even call it that) like this are the means to do it. Prominently featured on BMW USA's homepage today, the BMW KITH page states, "This is a collaboration born of mutual admiration, authentically BMW and Kith in every way." "Two powerful icons come together to create a compelling limited-edition vehicle: the BMW M4 Competition x Kith."

First, my gut reaction as a potential BMW M3 buyer is nausea. KITH is a brand that's been around a handful of years that sells $2 sweatpants for $300 to dumbasses by employing clever marketing tactics (like this and other partnerships with high end luxury brands) and creating artificial scarcity. In short, its product is hype, nothing else. So when BMW gets into bed with a company like them and says they "admir[e]" KITH and that they're both "power icons," it's equating itself with KITH. This makes me immediately question whether BMW is no different than KITH. Is that what BMW is selling me too? Hype? Are their cars essentially no different than $2 sweatpants dressed up and sold for $300? I realize that a decent chunk of the $80k I was (emphasis on was) planning on shelling out for my first M3 was going towards the brand image. If Toyota was making the M3 it'd probably retail for $50k. That's a $30k premium I'm paying for the BMW brand. But that was something I could live with if at the end of the day, I knew I was getting a car with legendary performance that would put a smile on my face with every downshift. I seriously question that now.

Second, if BMW thinks this collaboration is mutually beneficial, it's crazy. This is a one way street. KITH derives enormous benefit from BMW kissing its ass. Indeed, KITH's very existence hinges on "partnerships" like this with global brands that are highly esteemed. The minute those partnerships stop, it's the death knell for KITH. So what does BMW get in return for this "collaboration"? The hope that a 16 y/o who buys a KITH t-shirt today with a BMW logo on it is going to remember that and purchase a BMW 10-20 years down the road when they can afford one? I'm not going to pretend like I'm some marketing guru because I am not and so maybe there is some chance that sales like that will materialize, but honestly it seems like a real stretch to me. And in the mean time, BMW cheapens its brand to people like me who now start to seriously question what they're really buying when they buy a BMW.

Third, and this in part relates to the second point above, KITH won't be around in 10-20 years. Hell, I'm willing to wager it won't be cool in 5 years. Hype has a very short shelf life. It's only cool until everyone has one, and then it's not. (Just ask Supreme, Anti-social social club, and Cross Colours (remember that one? ironically, they tried making a come back in 2014 apparently).) But "cool" is always off to the next hyped brand. Where does that leave BMW's end of the bargain? Imo, BMW is doing itself no favors by whoring itself out to substance-less brands like KITH that will not be around long enough to pay BMW dividends.

"I don't understand it so therefore it's bad"

Imagine being so upset and confused you write a whole essay. They sold out in an hour, Kith doesn't need to collab and they make some awesome clothes that you pay more for due to exclusivity.

Everyone acts like the M3/M4 is Jesus and Nike sponsored him or something. It's a car that BMW sells to make money and this collab got a lot of attention so was successful, that's it.

[razman]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

They sold out in an hour, Kith doesn't need to collab and they make some awesome clothes that you pay more for due to exclusivity.

Relax dude. No one is judging your choice to buy a wardrobe full of "awesome" $300 stretchy pants. That said, if you think "Kith doesn't need to collab" then you're the one who doesn't "understand it." The reason Kith and others brands like it exist in the first place is because of this brand "lifting" marketing strategy they employ and leverage with exclusivity.

I'm simply questioning whether there's any real benefit here to BMW. Will this collaboration make BMW money in the long run? If you think it will, that's fine and you can explain yourself without needing to get defensive and confrontational.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by razman

Relax dude. No one is judging your choice to buy a wardrobe full of "awesome" $300 stretchy pants. That said, if you think "Kith doesn't need to collab" then you're the one who doesn't "understand it." The reason Kith and others brands like it exist in the first place is because of this brand "lifting" marketing strategy they employ and leverage with exclusivity.

I'm simply questioning whether there's any real benefit here to BMW. Will this collaboration make BMW money in the long run? If you think it will, that's fine and you can explain yourself without needing to get defensive and confrontational.

I'm kinda judging

Sounds real dumb

:

[yk36]

What a disappointment, I can look over the grill but the marketing for this car plus the transition to a 8 speed auto + substantial weight (400lbs) increase compared the previous gen makes this car a no go.

[Stephen5242]

Originally Posted by razman

Relax dude. No one is judging your choice to buy a wardrobe full of "awesome" $300 stretchy pants. That said, if you think "Kith doesn't need to collab" then you're the one who doesn't "understand it." The reason Kith and others brands like it exist in the first place is because of this brand "lifting" marketing strategy they employ and leverage with exclusivity.

I'm simply questioning whether there's any real benefit here to BMW. Will this collaboration make BMW money in the long run? If you think it will, that's fine and you can explain yourself without needing to get defensive and confrontational.

I agree that it is an attempt at brand lifting. You say BMW should not associate with a brand that excessively prices common items. I do remember BMW charging over 1K for comfort access even when it was standard on some very low cost vehicles. BMW does this a lot as do the other German manufactures by offering highly marked up options.

I don't think BMW is counting long term profits with this. I think it is just a very cost effective way of keeping their name out there in different markets.

[Darth One]

Just because some of you don't like how BMW is worming its brand into future buyers' hearts and minds, doesn't mean it won't work.

When I was a kid BMW captured my imagination because of my best friend's dad's E30 and 2002, seeing the M3 blitzing DTM, and my mom constantly telling me that her dream car was a BMW. Later on, it was the BMW Williams F1 team and the 'collab' with McLaren on the F1.

I guess maybe the way to young buyers hearts is streetwear now..? Times change

[CCOWAN19]

Originally Posted by Bimmermanforlife

Well, CCOWAN, your 2c and mine make 4. I'm 46 and rock my blue Supreme zip vest every day the mercury's in the 50s. I showed a friend of mine, who likes the finer things in life and can afford them, the bmwusa.com page of the car and his take is: I have no idea if it's a good investment or not but it's a gorgeous car.

Again, the intent is to provide the purists on the board a layperson's perspective. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree. I have so much older supreme items the younger kids think it's fake. They have no idea what it is. They'd pass out knowing some of these hoodies are worth $2K plus.

[Bimmr7]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

What you and a few others are missing is people are really just pissed at BMW for other things like say a Fat Heavy Ugly ZF8 AWD "///M" car and this is just the straw that broke the camels back

Ok then, just buy the manual. If that’s not good enough BMW has many different cars you can choose from.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Bimmr7

Ok then, just buy the manual. If that’s not good enough BMW has many different cars you can choose from.

Nope. Your not getting it. The car is a mess regardless of the transmission. Actually BMW doesn't have much left for me any longer. A 911 is in my future.

[yk36]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Nope. Your not getting it. The car is a mess regardless of the transmission. Actually BMW doesn't have much left for me any longer. A 911 is in my future.

Good choice, even the base 992 embarrasses any BMW M cars.

Look at the lap time for the 992 Carrera S, faster than every M car around the ring.

[Ikester19]

Don't mind brand collaboration but don't get how or why Kith, surely there are other more established and/or well renowned brands out there that would better compliment the BMW brand, and appeal to a wider audience?

Was looking forward to the release of the G80/G82 as my next car but BMW has lost me on this one. Only hope is that they come up with something special on the next M2 but I'm not betting on it!

[OF Hero]

The article's title is cringe worthy and just screams "get off my lawn."

Products change/evolve all the time. Don't like it, don't buy it. /shrug

[CarbonAlpine]

I remember being 14 and working my butt off after school to save enough $ for the day I reach driving age to buy my bmw. It was a 1994 e36 I picked up for $7k, I probably washed that car everyday for the 3 years I owned it. From then on out I've had tons of bmws, even when they started the Bangle designs. I had a 996 Turbo S for 9 months alongside my e92, best combo I ever had. Maybe I'm in the minority and my opinion doesn't matter to BMW, but their recent designs are horrid...and I'm not old yet...I very much wear sweats and hoodies as well. I won't criticize the g8x because that's been beaten to death already, but I will say Porsche has kept their heritage alive and well, while still exciting their base and prospective buyers. I feel bmw handed them new buyers with their out of the box designs.

The only wallet that matters is our own, and mine is closed for new bmws. I will hold onto my f82 and I might pick up some older timeless bmw models like the e39, e46 and if I can find a clean one...e30. Those are the bmws that I remember and will always cherish

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by Macphisto

My 2016 M2 is my current and seventh consecutive BMW. My next car will not be a BMW.

As a fellow F87 driver I feel you, my next car is very unlikely to be BMW on their recent trajectory.

Started my BMW journey with an E36 M3, likely finishing it with the F87 because the value proposition gets weaker every year. The next M2 is going to have to follow a more evolutionary design language to keep me interested.

Already went away from the brand for the family vehicle because you are literally paying a $10-20k premium for the badge compared to the competition.

[Germanauto]

BMW has been doing this for years, but it took for the G8X unveiling for it to really hit home with casual observers. In 09-10 they launched ther E89 Z4 and F10 5-series which were both notable departures from their predecessors in driving dynamics. Every new F-chassis model that followed was a disaster to drive save for the 2-series, which was still watered down compared to the 1-series.

BMW, like a lot of brands, has its heydey behind it and is now more concerned about selling a product that reflects a certain image rather than a product which reflects their brand heritage.

Porsche is guilty of this just a little, but overall they still stick pretty true to their brand's core values. Yes the expansion into more mass market segments brings badge chasers to the brand, but those cars are still heads and shoulders above the competition in driving dynamics. I do cringe when I see people who I know give zero fks about cars get into the cheapest Macan/Cayenne lease they could find.

[h_bakken]

McLaren is selling hoodies...

https://f1store4.formula1.com/en/mcl...SAAEgIvXPD_BwE

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by LinkF1

As a fellow F87 driver I feel you, my next car is very unlikely to be BMW on their recent trajectory.

Started my BMW journey with an E36 M3, likely finishing it with the F87 because the value proposition gets weaker every year. The next M2 is going to have to follow a more evolutionary design language to keep me interested.

Already went away from the brand for the family vehicle because you are literally paying a $10-20k premium for the badge compared to the competition.

I'm also an F87/N55 driver and fan. It's like a combo of my old e36 and e46 M3s but with a glorious engine with loads of torque. Plus, it sounds fantastic. I love it.

But after 9 BMWs and 6 Ms, this new M3/4 has me wondering. I'm not going to plop down $90,000+ on a car that is just simply unattractive to me. I am HOPING AND PRAYING that the G87 M2 gives me something worth buying.

[DRLane]

The winner here is KITH. The BMW collab just brought tremendous brand awareness. This is an opportunity to march steadfastly in the direction of Supreme which is being acquired by VF for $2.1B. Insanity...

It's a bummer BMW wants to associate with brands that have zero function or purposeful design. Guess that says everything about their intent as well.

"Ultimate driving machine"

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by DRLane

The winner here is KITH. The BMW collab just brought tremendous brand awareness. This is an opportunity to march steadfastly in the direction of Supreme which is being acquired by VF for $2.1B. Insanity...

It's a bummer BMW wants to associate with brands that have zero function or purposeful design. Guess that says everything about their intent as well.

"Ultimate driving machine"

For the record I have never, and likely will never, own anything by Kith.

The winner here is the youth, who's purchasing power (not presently but) going forward is substantial. The winner here is the brand that is arousing increased interest and awareness when compared to it's competitors.

The losers here are the people who are upset about a marketing decision that doesn't even impact their lives in the least.