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      10-19-2020, 08:46 AM   #1
Parabolica
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Why I think the upcoming CS should be manual only

This is my case for why I think the next gen CS should be manual only:


- The F82/80 CS did not sell well at all in USA or Canada. BMWNA had to impose significant price reductions to get them off their lots. I believe that M enthusiasts will purchase a manual CS

- Per BMW, the CS is supposed to be a dual purpose street/track not a track dedicated vehicle like the CSL/GTS. Thus, lap-times are not as important and losing a tenth due to manual vs auto doesn’t really matter.

- Now that the DCT is gone, the ZF8 is definitely a less engaging transmission option, so a manual lines up better with the CS philosophy.

- If Porsche can spend the $$ to match a high HP vehicle to a manual transmission, so can BMW for the CS.

Discuss.
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      10-19-2020, 08:51 AM   #2
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I can tell you from our figures that 8 out of every 10 M cars we sold were auto. Yes we do get people who want manuals however its very rare outside the forum community.

So from that perspective I would imagine BMW will almost never release a mass production car that would neglect most of their buyers. at the end of the day BMW is out to make money, they will always cater to bottom line over enthusiast thats just the way it is. If it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make cents (sense)
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      10-19-2020, 08:53 AM   #3
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I would never buy an automatic M car. Save the manuals!
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      10-19-2020, 08:59 AM   #4
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I have a DCT F80 CS that I hate because it's not manual (it's my first and last non manual and at the time the F80 was out of production, my lease was up and I was 30k over the mile allotment, yada yada yada).

Yet the F8x CS is a beloved car by everyone else in our facebook group lol, all of whom can put aside that its not a 6MT.

Therefore, I am perhaps not the best person to opine on this subject.
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      10-19-2020, 10:10 AM   #5
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speaking of manual in Porsches... have you looked up the reviews on 718 GT4 and GTS 4.0 with the manual? The one and only complaint with it is the transmission and the horrible gearing. I recall reading about Porsche admitted more or less that they didn't have the budget to redevelop a manual just for the car.

I'd think for both BMW and Porsche keeping manual options is more about maintaining credibility and goodwill with certain enthusiasts than actual business justifications.

Hard to see BMW not offering auto in the G8X CS and above trims.. would be neat if they offer it as an option similar to manual being available on Porsche GT3 touring package... and the F8X CS did not sell well not because it didn't have manual, it was simply overpriced and at the end of the day still a M4. Folks shopping in the >120k sports car category (CAD) would not look this way typically
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      10-19-2020, 10:28 AM   #6
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The manual transmission is not being offered in all markets, so any models sitting above the Competition model will have the automatic transmission.

With near certainty, no future model with the manual transmission will be more powerful than the base model. However, it is at least possible that they could take some parts from a future CS model and put them on a special limited manual transmission model. It almost surely wouldn't be called "CS", but a name is arbitrary anyway.
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      10-19-2020, 02:33 PM   #7
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You think the solution to poor CS sales is to make it manual only?
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      10-19-2020, 09:24 PM   #8
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Chevrolet eliminated the MT in the new Corvette C8. It’s now DCT only. Caused a little angst among MT fanatics but sales are still through the roof.

The MT is most likely on borrowed time industry wide, so best wishes to everyone who wants to get one while they can. Hopefully BMW hangs on to them for a while yet.
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      10-19-2020, 09:45 PM   #9
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I would never buy a manual again. So there.
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      10-19-2020, 10:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
I believe that M enthusiasts will purchase a manual CS
Not for a ridiculous base price of 104k.

Quote:
If Porsche can spend the $$ to match a high HP vehicle to a manual transmission, so can BMW for the CS.
Porsche has the PDK-only GT2RS and GT3RS. So, why can't BMW have a DCT-only GTS and CS? Porsche has a manual GT3. BMW still offers manual M3/4 base and competition. BMW should've spent money on a faster DCT rather than on a boring ZF8.
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      10-24-2020, 10:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
I can tell you from our figures that 8 out of every 10 M cars we sold were auto. Yes we do get people who want manuals however its very rare outside the forum community.

So from that perspective I would imagine BMW will almost never release a mass production car that would neglect most of their buyers. at the end of the day BMW is out to make money, they will always cater to bottom line over enthusiast thats just the way it is. If it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make cents (sense)
+1. Manual lovers are the enthusiasts that will speak up here but unfortunately talk doesn't equal to sales.

Manuals are dying because the demand isn't there.
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      10-25-2020, 08:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
I can tell you from our figures that 8 out of every 10 M cars we sold were auto. Yes we do get people who want manuals however its very rare outside the forum community.

So from that perspective I would imagine BMW will almost never release a mass production car that would neglect most of their buyers. at the end of the day BMW is out to make money, they will always cater to bottom line over enthusiast thats just the way it is. If it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make cents (sense)
Can’t argue with the data here but the CS May attract a different buyer profile.
I’ve been watching the M2 CS A bit and interestingly about 75% of confirmed buyers seem to be selecting 6MT. https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/po...ts&pollid=9947

Granted that is only reflective of about 10% of US allocations and forum buyers will tend to skew 6MT, but it wouldn’t be crazy if the eventual manual take rate on those was around 50%.

I think a special version will get more 6MT interest because it’s fundamentally the enthusiast version
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      10-25-2020, 08:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
+1. Manual lovers are the enthusiasts that will speak up here but unfortunately talk doesn't equal to sales.

Manuals are dying because the demand isn't there.
I could argue that for the f80/82, many were "forced" into buying the dct version as they were the ones available on the lots. I'd like to see the numbers dct vs manual for the customer orders.
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      10-25-2020, 12:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
+1. Manual lovers are the enthusiasts that will speak up here but unfortunately talk doesn't equal to sales.

Manuals are dying because the demand isn't there.
I could argue that for the f80/82, many were "forced" into buying the dct version as they were the ones available on the lots. I'd like to see the numbers dct vs manual for the customer orders.
If someone settled for a DCT because it was on the lot with no 6MT options, they didn't really care about buying a manual to begin with. I wouldn't buy a manual transmission car if that was all that was available, I'd find the DCT or order one. And yes I can drive manual. Settling one way or the other is being hasty IMO.
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      10-26-2020, 09:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee411 View Post
You think the solution to poor CS sales is to make it manual only?
yea seeing as the top of the line G8x comp is AWD mainly for traction i don't think they are thinking the even lighter hardcore version will be manual and +1 to the above, doesn't make business sense.
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      10-27-2020, 07:27 AM   #16
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The 1M was manual only and it sold way better than any PDK E92 M3 or PDK 135i when they were available in the showroom!

The main thing is packaging.

If they can do some unique engineering on the more focused variant with a manual gearbox and make it very desirable but pricing it below the CS, it will absolutely sell. The point is the they seems to have lost the ability to create something new and exciting for customers to charge into a showroom and tell the sales guy to 'just shut up and take my money'!
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      10-27-2020, 08:51 AM   #17
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You buy a TV or Smartphone today and it does not even come with a manual anymore! Everything is digital. Same with cars going auto.

At least with auto we can still use the shifter or paddles to change gears and hold a gear at redline etc... When all new cars are electric with no (or 2 speed) transmission it's going to be boring as hell
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      10-28-2020, 02:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica View Post
I could argue that for the f80/82, many were "forced" into buying the dct version as they were the ones available on the lots. I'd like to see the numbers dct vs manual for the customer orders.
I went with 6MT on my last F80 since we already had E93 with DCT, it's came down to personal choice beside you felt more connected to the vehicle when driving.
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      10-29-2020, 01:33 AM   #19
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The same people who Yell Save the Manuals are the same people who still owns 2010's Manual cars and will never buy a New one. idk why this is still a topic to be honest it's 2020. Manuals are obsolete! there i said it .
"but its more engaging" "its more fun"

Listen do you still own the iphone 4? no you have the new iphones and new androids. the only reason manuels were created was because you had more control of the car and humans could shift faster than the current AT's its 2020 now its about performance and efficiency. Fun was just a side effect of MT's get with the times or go buy a 2021 Civic they will forever be Manual.

before i get any backlash i've been driving manual since i was 16 my first 4 cars was Manuel but it ended when i got a e92 M2 DCT and ive never looked back.

The reason the F8X CS did not sell well was because it was overpriced and not different from a M3/4 Comp thats it which someone already stated.
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      10-29-2020, 12:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karguy95 View Post
The same people who Yell Save the Manuals are the same people who still owns 2010's Manual cars and will never buy a New one. idk why this is still a topic to be honest it's 2020. Manuals are obsolete! there i said it .
"but its more engaging" "its more fun"

Listen do you still own the iphone 4? no you have the new iphones and new androids. the only reason manuels were created was because you had more control of the car and humans could shift faster than the current AT's its 2020 now its about performance and efficiency. Fun was just a side effect of MT's get with the times or go buy a 2021 Civic they will forever be Manual.

before i get any backlash i've been driving manual since i was 16 my first 4 cars was Manuel but it ended when i got a e92 M2 DCT and ive never looked back.

The reason the F8X CS did not sell well was because it was overpriced and not different from a M3/4 Comp thats it which someone already stated.
Well I can only speak for me but the MT is like 80% of the reason why I go with BMW. Only one still selling this in this power/price range...
soooooo there are still people who buy them, new. As I did.

I don't care on who likes what, everyone has his taste...but I thank BMW for still producing an MT and for that I go for a G80.
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      10-29-2020, 12:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica View Post
- If Porsche can spend the $$ to match a high HP vehicle to a manual transmission, so can BMW for the CS.
Porsche can spend the $$ to continue development of dual clutch to match their high HP cars. Imagine that.
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      10-30-2020, 06:49 AM   #22
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If the M4 doesn't have the 6MT many people would look at the Nissan GTR instead...slightly more expensive but more power (Track edition has 600hp), DCT, lighter weight and track proven AWD system.

Why buy the M4 unless one just want the badge
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