[d001]

Not sure if this is redundant by now or even in the correct tread section....

Drove a SPY M4 6MT yesterday. I will list my impressions. The day before test drive, I drove my near spece46 6MT zhp daily. The day of test drive (10 miles, well known back road)- my E90 M3 DCT. Here are few things that I took away from the M4experience:
- quicker ratio steering (pro)
- dead steering feel as prev gens (con)
- surprisingly very compliant and supple suspension even in sport plus (you decide)
- very comfortable and soft standard seats (pro)
- better materials interior including leather, but hard plastics in lower levels of dash and trans tunnel (mixed)
- car felt very heavy (con)
- visibility over the hood much worse than prev (con)
- fantastic dash electronics (pro)
- very intrusive nannies even in sport+, TC off was much better (mixed)
- brake feel felt mushy, but pads weren't bedded (?)
- great power, though I was very respectful to it being a new car with few miles on it (pro)
- lots of artificial engine noise, can't turn it off that I could find (con)
- nostrils look ok/good in person (you decide)
- SPY looks amazing in person (pro)
- black plastics all around exterior are piano black and feel very cheap, CF option to cover than but pricey (con)
- having a 6MT option in this segment (pro)
- 6MT is slightly less rubbery than prev gens, but not on par with cayman, miata, 1LE camaro (con). Posted about this in the trans tread.

Overall a nice car, it would make a great daily with compliance, power, potential fuel econ, presence.. How it (in this case its sibling m3) would do on track, or more importantly vs QV, Ct4-VBW, IS500, that would be my decision point to get me to move away from my E90 M3.


-

[solstice]

Originally Posted by d001

Not sure if this is redundant by now or even in the correct tread section....

Drove a SPY M4 6MT yesterday. I will list my impressions. The day before test drive, I drove my near spece46 6MT zhp daily. The day of test drive (10 miles, well known back road)- my E90 M3 DCT. Here are few things that I took away from the M4experience:
- quicker ratio steering (pro)
- dead steering feel as prev gens (con)
- surprisingly very compliant and supple suspension even in sport plus (you decide)
- very comfortable and soft standard seats (pro)
- better materials interior including leather, but hard plastics in lower levels of dash and trans tunnel (mixed)
- car felt very heavy (con)
- visibility over the hood much worse than prev (con)
- fantastic dash electronics (pro)
- very intrusive nannies even in sport+, TC off was much better (mixed)
- brake feel felt mushy, but pads weren't bedded (?)
- great power, though I was very respectful to it being a new car with few miles on it (pro)
- lots of artificial engine noise, can't turn it off that I could find (con)
- nostrils look ok/good in person (you decide)
- SPY looks amazing in person (pro)
- black plastics all around exterior are piano black and feel very cheap, CF option to cover than but pricey (con)
- having a 6MT option in this segment (pro)
- 6MT is slightly less rubbery than prev gens, but not on par with cayman, miata, 1LE camaro (con). Posted about this in the trans tread.

Overall a nice car, it would make a great daily with compliance, power, potential fuel econ, presence.. How it (in this case its sibling m3) would do on track, or more importantly vs QV, Ct4-VBW, IS500, that would be my decision point to get me to move away from my E90 M3.


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So it sounds like you aren’t sure on trackability? I.e. you didn’t walk away thinking, nice car but man it will surely and utterly suck on the track? Like most do after a short drive in for example an F10 M5.

[frankiebones]

Where and how did the clutch grab?

[d001]

@solstice No, I didnt walk away thinking the car will suck on track. I had limited seat time, plus it was on public roads. I do believe it puts power down better than the prev gen, but only 1st hand continues track driving will tell how good the car does.

[d001]

@frankiebones, clutch was surprisingly firm at first. It has a noticable engagement point low to mid travel. I couldn't get a smooth 1-2 without a noticable tug when releasing the pedal. Take off from 1st is no issues.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by d001

Not sure if this is redundant by now or even in the correct tread section....

Drove a SPY M4 6MT yesterday. I will list my impressions. The day before test drive, I drove my near spece46 6MT zhp daily. The day of test drive (10 miles, well known back road)- my E90 M3 DCT. Here are few things that I took away from the M4experience:
- quicker ratio steering (pro)
- dead steering feel as prev gens (con)
- surprisingly very compliant and supple suspension even in sport plus (you decide)
- very comfortable and soft standard seats (pro)
- better materials interior including leather, but hard plastics in lower levels of dash and trans tunnel (mixed)
- car felt very heavy (con)
- visibility over the hood much worse than prev (con)
- fantastic dash electronics (pro)
- very intrusive nannies even in sport+, TC off was much better (mixed)
- brake feel felt mushy, but pads weren't bedded (?)
- great power, though I was very respectful to it being a new car with few miles on it (pro)
- lots of artificial engine noise, can't turn it off that I could find (con)
- nostrils look ok/good in person (you decide)
- SPY looks amazing in person (pro)
- black plastics all around exterior are piano black and feel very cheap, CF option to cover than but pricey (con)
- having a 6MT option in this segment (pro)
- 6MT is slightly less rubbery than prev gens, but not on par with cayman, miata, 1LE camaro (con). Posted about this in the trans tread.

Overall a nice car, it would make a great daily with compliance, power, potential fuel econ, presence.. How it (in this case its sibling m3) would do on track, or more importantly vs QV, Ct4-VBW, IS500, that would be my decision point to get me to move away from my E90 M3.


-

IS500 is not a contender, its competes with the M340i RWD and C43. I know V8 power however, it won't compete with the M3, it's basically an IS350 F Sport with different shocks, bigger brakes and the V8 motor. It's not a 2nd gen ISF and thus lacks that performance edge. This is clearly stated by Lexus too....

[d001]

Originally Posted by EXE46

IS500 is not a contender, its competes with the M340i RWD and C43. I know V8 power however, it won't compete with the M3, it's basically an IS350 F Sport with different shocks, bigger brakes and the V8 motor. It's not a 2nd gen ISF and thus lacks that performance edge. This is clearly stated by Lexus too....

Just like my e90 m3 doesn't compete with anything boosted or modern...for me it's not about the numbers...its the subjective part of what the car makes you feel.
Try the Lexus v8, makes fantastic sounds in the LC500

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by d001

Just like my e90 m3 doesn't compete with anything boosted or modern...for me it's not about the numbers...its the subjective part of what the car makes you feel.
Try the Lexus v8, makes fantastic sounds in the LC500

I understand that, but while the V8 is great the rest of the car will lack all the stuff that makes a real F special. Suspension, braking, rigidity etc will all be different in the IS500. Only Lexus knows why they couldn't muster the effort and create a 2nd gen ISF. This will be more a Frankenstein edition ( think M54TU swap for S54 in e46 330i) of the 3IS.

That 5.0 is glorious, just have to see how it works in this chassis that lacks the harder edge nature of the true F cars. You may as well get an RCF or GSF both should be more fun than the IS500 and both of those have the true F car's engineering. IS500 is a tier below...

[zamboni]

D001 thanks for sharing the feed back on test drive.

[unseen orko]

Originally Posted by d001

Not sure if this is redundant by now or even in the correct tread section....

Drove a SPY M4 6MT yesterday. I will list my impressions. The day before test drive, I drove my near spece46 6MT zhp daily. The day of test drive (10 miles, well known back road)- my E90 M3 DCT. Here are few things that I took away from the M4experience:
- quicker ratio steering (pro)
- dead steering feel as prev gens (con)
- surprisingly very compliant and supple suspension even in sport plus (you decide)
- very comfortable and soft standard seats (pro)
- better materials interior including leather, but hard plastics in lower levels of dash and trans tunnel (mixed)
- car felt very heavy (con)
- visibility over the hood much worse than prev (con)
- fantastic dash electronics (pro)
- very intrusive nannies even in sport+, TC off was much better (mixed)
- brake feel felt mushy, but pads weren't bedded (?)
- great power, though I was very respectful to it being a new car with few miles on it (pro)
- lots of artificial engine noise, can't turn it off that I could find (con)
- nostrils look ok/good in person (you decide)
- SPY looks amazing in person (pro)
- black plastics all around exterior are piano black and feel very cheap, CF option to cover than but pricey (con)
- having a 6MT option in this segment (pro)
- 6MT is slightly less rubbery than prev gens, but not on par with cayman, miata, 1LE camaro (con). Posted about this in the trans tread.

Overall a nice car, it would make a great daily with compliance, power, potential fuel econ, presence.. How it (in this case its sibling m3) would do on track, or more importantly vs QV, Ct4-VBW, IS500, that would be my decision point to get me to move away from my E90 M3.


-

You the man!! One of the best write ups. Truly informative. Same here, I can't get over e92 in my head. Tried many things- m240, f80 m3.. haven't found the magic. Would you recommend this m3 over m2c or M2CS? For Dynamics.

[bri1042]

Which setting did you have the brakes on? There are two, and they do feel different.

The comfort setting is a bit mushy for my tastes, but much better than the disappointing brakes on my SO's 530e. The Sport setting was fine. It isn't as, uh, startling as my M2C's were the first time I drove it (or every time I forgot how silly they were). Which isn't a bad thing.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by unseen orko

You the man!! One of the best write ups. Truly informative. Same here, I can't get over e92 in my head. Tried many things- m240, f80 m3.. haven't found the magic. Would you recommend this m3 over m2c or M2CS? For Dynamics.

Love for the E92

Have you driven an M2c? I cannot imagine the new M3 being more dynamic than an M2c...and certainly not an M2cs. The G80 will be faster 0-60, faster around a track, and more refined...but the size, weight, auto transmission, and refinement are going to make it feel less dynamic versus M2c. Given M3 and M2cs are close in price point, M2cs all day every day for dynamic driver, G80 M3 all day every day for daily driver.

[d001]

Originally Posted by scoale

Love for the E92

Have you driven an M2c? I cannot imagine the new M3 being more dynamic than an M2c...and certainly not an M2cs. The G80 will be faster 0-60, faster around a track, and more refined...but the size, weight, auto transmission, and refinement are going to make it feel less dynamic versus M2c.

Given M3 and M2cs are close in price point, M2cs all day every day for dynamic driver, G80 M3 all day every day for daily driver.

I would have to absolutely agree with the last sentence- if you remember that when you make your choice between the two, it will erase any second guessing which car you'd pick based on its desired purpose.
Now, it is another story all together that there far far better driver's cars than the M2CS at that price point.

[Stunnerable]

Have to agree.. the e9X M3 was in my opinion the best all around enthusiast M car they ever made. That engine was so so very special and when combined with the hydraulic steering of that era, magic happened!

I'm very curious about how this new car feels.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Stunnerable

Have to agree.. the e9X M3 was in my opinion the best all around enthusiast M car they ever made. That engine was so so very special and when combined with the hydraulic steering of that era, magic happened!

I'm very curious about how this new car feels.

My guess it will make the E9X primarily feel old and slow something the F8X never really managed. Yes it’s faster but not enough to overshadow the S65 and steering feel of the E9X. I bet the G8X will though, M3’s always seem to do that two generations apart. Sometimes it only takes one.

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by solstice

So it sounds like you aren’t sure on trackability? I.e. you didn’t walk away thinking, nice car but man it will surely and utterly suck on the track? Like most do after a short drive in for example an F10 M5.

Thanks for the feedback. I absolutely loved driving the 2015 Cayman GTS Manual. It is the only thing holding me back from buying the new M3 at the moment. Get a used Cayman GTS/ GT4 or get a new G80 M3. One is obviously better for all purposes including daily. I would lease the G80 but buy the Cayman.

[d001]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

Thanks for the feedback. I absolutely loved driving the 2015 Cayman GTS Manual. It is the only thing holding me back from buying the new M3 at the moment. Get a used Cayman GTS/ GT4 or get a new G80 M3. One is obviously better for all purposes including daily. I would lease the G80 but buy the Cayman.

So I can share some of my thoughts on "all around good" vs "single purpose". Just a revaluation I came to understand about myself after many years of car switching to find the perfect one. May be someone else is going through the same struggle to choose.

I am absolutely done with all around good cars of any make, to include my E90 M3. Why, cause they are never great at, say daily driving, tracking, reliability, gas mileage, insert your comment. They are only that- good. If you have other vehicles to cover daily commute, etc, why limit myself to a good dynamic car but not a great one!? Single purpose driver's car is the only solution when you want greatness. Just my two cents

[hemi to e90]

Originally Posted by EXE46

I understand that, but while the V8 is great the rest of the car will lack all the stuff that makes a real F special. Suspension, braking, rigidity etc will all be different in the IS500. Only Lexus knows why they couldn't muster the effort and create a 2nd gen ISF. This will be more a Frankenstein edition ( think M54TU swap for S54 in e46 330i) of the 3IS.

That 5.0 is glorious, just have to see how it works in this chassis that lacks the harder edge nature of the true F cars. You may as well get an RCF or GSF both should be more fun than the IS500 and both of those have the true F car's engineering. IS500 is a tier below...

I think you may be romanticizing some cars here, the RCF and especially the GSF were not "m" car competitors. maybe, and its a stretch, they were a step between, as in the gsf was between an f10 550 and a f10 m5. but modern cars? no way

rcf is now a 4000lbs car in line with a GSF. I doubt an RCF would be as fast as a M340i on track. both also have embarrassingly long gears, both suspensions were over sprung or over dampened, and most importantly, both had the absolute worse interior entertainment systems.

their only redeeming factor is the engine note. THE ONLY redeeming factor

reading your post it sounds like you just want an NA car, and I 100% understand and respect that, but its coloring your perception of everything else imho

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

I think you may be romanticizing some cars here, the RCF and especially the GSF were not "m" car competitors. maybe, and its a stretch, they were a step between, as in the gsf was between an f10 550 and a f10 m5. but modern cars? no way

rcf is now a 4000lbs car in line with a GSF. I doubt an RCF would be as fast as a M340i on track. both also have embarrassingly long gears, both suspensions were over sprung or over dampened, and most importantly, both had the absolute worse interior entertainment systems.

their only redeeming factor is the engine note. THE ONLY redeeming factor

reading your post it sounds like you just want an NA car, and I 100% understand and respect that, but its coloring your perception of everything else imho

Wrong on all counts, the OP mentioned the IS500 as a potential contender for him because of the V8. I was merely telling OP that those two models also has the same motor and should be superior in driving dynamics to the upcoming IS500 which will be an M340i competitor not M3.

[hemi to e90]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Wrong on all counts, the OP mentioned the IS500 as a potential contender for him because of the V8. I was merely telling OP that those two models also has the same motor and should be superior in driving dynamics to the upcoming IS500 which will be an M340i competitor not M3.

okay champ

[unseen orko]

Originally Posted by scoale

Love for the E92

Have you driven an M2c? I cannot imagine the new M3 being more dynamic than an M2c...and certainly not an M2cs. The G80 will be faster 0-60, faster around a track, and more refined...but the size, weight, auto transmission, and refinement are going to make it feel less dynamic versus M2c. Given M3 and M2cs are close in price point, M2cs all day every day for dynamic driver, G80 M3 all day every day for daily driver.

Thank you for the insight. No, I have not driven an m2c. I did drive the M2CS around town in low speed for about 5 mins. Not much. It was too short to make any judgment. I did notice that the M2CS had the same dead steering feel.. not even close to e92. I think for me, it comes down to the steering feel.. if it's as good as m2c, maybe I'll be okay with the g80 even if it's not e92. M340i sucks in both handling and steering. So that's a nonstarter.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by unseen orko

M340i sucks in both handling and steering. So that's a nonstarter.

I've driven the m340i at a BMW event on an autocross course. It did surprisingly very well. I was blown away actually. I don't know how it would hold up during an actual track session, but given a short autocross, it handles very well.